Do you spoil him?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Get over yourself, peezy. I've known people like you all my life. They love the power they get by screaming racism and then having the white folks among them fall over themselves to appease you. I'm not a fan of those who play victims when they are obviously not. I have no idea what your story is other than appearing on the scene to try to cow others when they say something you deem unacceptable, but you won't get anywhere with me. I'm a citizen on this planet, too, and I know that there are more effective ways to create change than coming on a discussion board throwing your weight around about oppression, as if no one knows a damn thing about it besides you.

So, there, you have my opinion. Since you say I have a right to it, respect that and stop complaining about how some disagree with you. That's life, suck it up.

Please explain where I've screamed. Also, explain where I might get any power from here, on this board, where no one knows me, and I'm sure we don't live anywhere near each other? Finally, explain the whole statement about "white folks appeasing me".....where am I in this scenario? White, not white, male, female? I honestly don't understand what you are saying here.

And so you say there are more effective ways to create change than a message board, so that means the people here aren't worth discussing things with? It's a lost cause and therefore ineffective?

Again, you certainly may have your own opinion. I just don't understand when I express mine, I'm supposed to shut up and suck it up and stop discussing? Wouldn't the complaining go both ways? You are complaining as well, about me, are you not?

As you mentioned earlier, we have choices, to come to the boards or not.

You're not discussing it, you're demanding conformity. Maybe that's your style and you don't see it, so you just don't get it.

By stringing out your argument about the meaning of words in the face of resistance from those who do not see the words as you do, you obviously have a goal in mind. What do you want from us if not appeasement and agreement? You cloak your protests behind the fascade of racism and oppression, two buzz words that are offered with the expectation that no one wants to be thought of as racist or oppressive, so, from what I've known about such positions, we are supposed to just fold to avoid the negative labels. Well, no one's folded, so what are you going to do when those you have targeted are not moved to acquiese to your claims?

I'm curious. You are arguing with people who are not budging, so, where is this going?

Edited October 30, 2006 by szsz

[sarah and hicham 3]

As for calling you names, I did not call you anything. I said your comments and your continual insistence that using this word is just fine because it's slang were racist. I believe someone can act in a way that is racist, due to misinformation, lack of information or experience, but not be a racist person to the core.

You actually said I was racist, ignorant and arrogant.

Don't take it personal VP, she's called me a racist before too. I guess since I left the other group she had to come here to find people to call racists.

Zetku, please do not be offended by us. I did read your post and do not want to offend you. I also noticed that you used the word Black instead of African-American. I've taken a lot of heat for doing the same. I personally chose to use Black over African-American because I have many dark-skinned friends who are from Jamaica and Haite, and so the second name would be a misnomer. Also, my husband is truly African-American, but doesn't like the term either.

If I had it my way we would all be different desert toppings which in no way identify race and merely indicate shades of something most people love - dark chocolate, milk chocolate, caramel, whipped cream - you name it. One of my favorite blues singers is Guy Davis and he uses the word Chocolate a lot. I liked that when I heard him because that was how I always saw it.

I guess my point is, something just about everyone says will probably offend someone who uses that word differently. Ghetto is quite a popular slang word in this country now if TV is any indication of popularity. I don't even watch much of it, but I've seen ads on the internet for shows and movies, and I listen to popular music on the radio. I don't see how it is any different for a white person to call where they live a ghetto than it is for a black person to do so. That seems racist to me in itself.

Liz once again- DO NOT BRING OTHER GROUPS TO THIS FORUM. Don't call people out for doing something to you in another group and coming after you here... grow up!

If you want to play that game however I would be more than happy to share things I have read from you in yahoo groups.

[Ban Hammer 13,110]

So, there, you have my opinion. Since you say I have a right to it, respect that and stop complaining about how some disagree with you. That's life, suck it up.

Couldn't this applied both ways, as is usually the case in forums such as this?

it could be, but i'd imagine that first ewok would want some proof. if off site then how would he know?

such might get a person in hot water with that group, but i've not seen ewok worry too much about sites other than vj and i'd be surprised if he enforced the vj tos over the alleged incident above.

Ewok may not enforce it but the TOS do not say where the private communication has to come from.

it's pretty much a given that such applies to vj as in pm's and such.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

So, there, you have my opinion. Since you say I have a right to it, respect that and stop complaining about how some disagree with you. That's life, suck it up.

Couldn't this applied both ways, as is usually the case in forums such as this?

it could be, but i'd imagine that first ewok would want some proof. if off site then how would he know?

This portion has nothing to do with multiple forums. I have no knowledge of the yahoo site being discussed.

[honeyblonde 0]

Sarah, I have disclosed nothing from the other group. All I did was identify you as someone who harrassed me somewhere else who has decided to bring it here. You are the number one reason I left that group, and the reason I've blocked you here. I only see what you say when someone quotes you.

I only told Rebecca that I felt that she was harrassing me here because I quit the group, because frankly her arguments here with me last night and today have been illogical and indicate that she is in an agitated state of mind (loaded with misspellings and poor grammer, not typical of her).

I didn't expect anything different of you Sarah, because I've come to see that you just love being a hater - of anything and anybody.

I am disappointed in you Rebecca. I thought better of you than to come here and attack a friend just because I don't want to be a part of your group any more.

Since neither of you seem to be able to be logical any more, I'll just ignore both of you and avoid the hassle of trying to understand more stupidity.

[Bosco 1]

Sarah, I have disclosed nothing from the other group. All I did was identify you as someone who harrassed me somewhere else who has decided to bring it here. You are the number one reason I left that group, and the reason I've blocked you here. I only see what you say when someone quotes you.

I only told Rebecca that I felt that she was harrassing me here because I quit the group, because frankly her arguments here with me last night and today have been illogical and indicate that she is in an agitated state of mind (loaded with misspellings and poor grammer, not typical of her).

I didn't expect anything different of you Sarah, because I've come to see that you just love being a hater - of anything and anybody.

I am disappointed in you Rebecca. I thought better of you than to come here and attack a friend just because I don't want to be a part of your group any more.

Since neither of you seem to be able to be logical any more, I'll just ignore both of you and avoid the hassle of trying to understand more stupidity.

Liz,

Agitated? If you knew me as you think you do, you would know I work from morning to night on Sundays. Sunday nights I am tired. My spelling drops off and I am lax with my grammar. This is a atypical assumption from you though, thinking it somehow is about you. You overvalue yourself, Liz, or least at least your contribution to the group. Remember that something that you said you were lacking, maybe when you have time to reflect you will realize why.

Rebecca

[peezey 0]

Sarah, I have disclosed nothing from the other group. All I did was identify you as someone who harrassed me somewhere else who has decided to bring it here. You are the number one reason I left that group, and the reason I've blocked you here. I only see what you say when someone quotes you.

I only told Rebecca that I felt that she was harrassing me here because I quit the group, because frankly her arguments here with me last night and today have been illogical and indicate that she is in an agitated state of mind (loaded with misspellings and poor grammer, not typical of her).

I didn't expect anything different of you Sarah, because I've come to see that you just love being a hater - of anything and anybody.

I am disappointed in you Rebecca. I thought better of you than to come here and attack a friend just because I don't want to be a part of your group any more.

Since neither of you seem to be able to be logical any more, I'll just ignore both of you and avoid the hassle of trying to understand more stupidity.

I "love" being a hater? I'm not even sure what that means, but considering how I've ticked you off every time I challenge the things you say, I suppose "hater" means I expect to be able to challenge my friends (my mistake in considering you one, I guess) to think about the things they say before they say them. If that's what "hater" means, then fine, because I won't stop challenging people to think.

If by any chance you mean that I am a terrible, mean person by using the word "hater", and I'm certain you do, then consider this: You were a long time member of another group, which you left and then joined ours. The other night I noticed that group does not purge it's messages. There are messages there from 2003. I emailed someone offline and told them they must have the messages removed because of the very personal talk that transpired there, most of which was yours. This was during our little scuffle this weekend, by the way. I had visions of all of that getting out into the public eye and couldn't imagine if that was my life that might be exposed. I guess this means I'm a considerate hater?

[Veiled Princess 1]

There is no flexibility with racism, and there is no flexibility when it comes to words that carry indelible reminders of a long history of oppression, and a continuing present socio-economic system supporting the same. I do not disagree words have differing impacts on different groups and people. I do believe strongly, though, that it is my responsibility as a citizen of this planet to speak up when words are misappropriated, misused, used maliciously, or used without care. No one is asking you to acquiese your opinion or individuality. And I haven't demanded anything from anyone here, I have only expressed my opinion, which you all seem to do readily and quickly. Why is it that my opinion has become a demand for something? In fact, I believe we are both just disussing here, however, it seems you are telling me there is nothing more to discuss, so I may just shut up now?

I'm not really sure what the problem with the word ghetto is or how it's a racist word... needless to say, I disagree with you opinion.

First of all, a ghetto is what is considered to be a 'poor' neighborhood... I find it extemely racist that anyone would assume that only people of a certain race can be poor. I also find it arrogant that anyone would assume that only people of a certain race can choose to live in any environment.

What I'm getting from this "discussion" is that only black people are poor, therefor they are the only ones who can, do or have lived in ghettos in all of history. I disagree and I find that to be an ignorant assumption.

Furthermore, it was my black sisters who introduced this word into my slang vocabulary so I guess they're all self-hating racists too?

For crying out loud it's just a word.

Don't take it personal VP, she's called me a racist before too. I guess since I left the other group she had to come here to find people to call racists.

I don't know who this person is so I haven't taken anything personally.... maybe someone who knows me or dislikes me under a different user name?

I haven't been a member of that group for quite some time... it doesn't mean i'll be discussing here though.

Zetku, please do not be offended by us. I did read your post and do not want to offend you. I also noticed that you used the word Black instead of African-American. I've taken a lot of heat for doing the same. I personally chose to use Black over African-American because I have many dark-skinned friends who are from Jamaica and Haite, and so the second name would be a misnomer. Also, my husband is truly African-American, but doesn't like the term either.

If I had it my way we would all be different desert toppings which in no way identify race and merely indicate shades of something most people love - dark chocolate, milk chocolate, caramel, whipped cream - you name it. One of my favorite blues singers is Guy Davis and he uses the word Chocolate a lot. I liked that when I heard him because that was how I always saw it.

I guess my point is, something just about everyone says will probably offend someone who uses that word differently. Ghetto is quite a popular slang word in this country now if TV is any indication of popularity. I don't even watch much of it, but I've seen ads on the internet for shows and movies, and I listen to popular music on the radio. I don't see how it is any different for a white person to call where they live a ghetto than it is for a black person to do so. That seems racist to me in itself.

My kids' dad is black and vietnamese... you would never know the vietnamese part if he didn't speak.... my son absolutely abhores the word "black" to describe his dad as he insists he is brown (he's 9 so get off it!)

The blacks in Haiti and Jamaica also originally came from Africa originally. They were brought there as slaves. If they have since moved here, they are in fact African Americans.

One could make the argument that we all came from Africa if you trace our roots back far enough.

[Together4ever 1]

Good grief. I am confused. Peezey is Sarah?

[Veiled Princess 1]

I expect to be able to challenge my friends (my mistake in considering you one, I guess)

PLease do try to remember we are not friends here... this is a public message board and no place for friendships

[sarah and hicham 3]

Good grief. I am confused. Peezey is Sarah?

Yes you are very confused.

[Veiled Princess 1]

I didn't expect anything different of you Sarah, because I've come to see that you just love being a hater - of anything and anybody.

I "love" being a hater?

So peezey is sarah? One ID isn't enough?

[Bosco 1]

I didn't expect anything different of you Sarah, because I've come to see that you just love being a hater - of anything and anybody.

I "love" being a hater?

So peezey is sarah? One ID isn't enough?

Not Sarah of Sarah and Hicham, a different Sarah with a different spouse who is at a different process in the VJ.

[Veiled Princess 1]

Not Sarah of Sarah and Hicham, a different Sarah with a different spouse who is at a different process in the VJ.

Ah ha

I can't keep up.

[honeyblonde 0]

Not Sarah of Sarah and Hicham, a different Sarah with a different spouse who is at a different process in the VJ.

Ah ha

I can't keep up.

It is funny though how that seems to be a name for agitators.