Canadian Conviction History?

[David and Karen 0]

I want to bang my head on the wall. I am so overwhelmed and confused with all of this.

I was never given a pardon. A pardon isn't possible for a discharge. A pardon is with regards to a criminal record. I understand that a conviction may have taken place in the eyes of the US but I cannot change that it isn't looked at as a conviction in Canada.

So, I get the record search for the locality that I lived in when all this happened (which is already in the works). Assuming it is clear (as expected by the law in that city) then I also need court documents of the initial charge and discharge?

I don't even know how to begin that search. Certainly it will take time.

Off I go to start calling the courts.

[Flames9_RN 358]

No clue, but why not call the local police that did the "arrest" See what they categorize it as, and go from there

[David and Karen 0]

No clue, but why not call the local police that did the "arrest" See what they categorize it as, and go from there

They categorize it as "no criminal record." She is sending me a formal letter/certificate to say the same. So according to the locality where I was arrested I don't have a criminal record. According to CPIC I don't have a criminal record. According to the court that processed it I don't have a criminal record.

So I don't really know what I am looking for now. The court office said I can get the information out of the archives held in Toronto. That is my next step. I just have to figure out what it is I want from the archives.

Zyggy you seem to have some informative answers so what is it I want from the archives? I'm so confused.

Montreal papers say they want a police check from the locality that the arrest was made etc. I have that. It's clear. What else do I get for them?

Edited November 1, 2006 by David and Karen

[smallcan999 0]

The Question asked in the DS-156 is as follows:

Have you ever been arrested or convicted for any offense or crime, even though subject of a pardon, amnesty or other similar legal action?

You were convicted of a crime.. you perfromed your sentence and upon perfroming the sentence, you were pardoned of the crime and the record of the crime was then expunged from your record.

Reading the above question and your situation, you must answer "Yes" and explain the crime. You must also bring a copy of your court records about the case and allow the Consulate to make the decision on whether or not a waiver is required.

The question is very, very clear... If you answer "No", you will have committed a misrepresentation.. and the penalties for that are far, far worse that the penalty for divulging the crime... Keep your eye on the prize.. getting to the US to be with your spouse... don't put that all at risk by trying to take a very risky (and illegal) short cut.

I also invite you to read the following passage from the FAM

9 FAM 40.21(a) N3.2-1 Evidence of Conviction

(TL:VISA-46; 08-26-1991)

Official records generally suffice to establish the existence of a conviction. However, some convictions that would make INA 212(a)(2)(A)(i)(I) applicable are no longer a matter of record. It must be borne in mind that not all expungements or pardons serve to relieve the individual of the effects of the conviction for immigration purposes. Therefore, in cases where an expungement or pardon may have removed the record of conviction from official records, or where the accuracy of records is otherwise suspect, the consular officer may require any evidence relevant to the alien’s history which may appear necessary to determine the facts.

Hi, So if one gets an official report from the RCMP which shows the conviction and the punishment then this is official enough correct or does one also need a report from the local police in addition to the rcmp document which shows everything in a persons record?

[zyggy 9]

I want to bang my head on the wall. I am so overwhelmed and confused with all of this.

I was never given a pardon. A pardon isn't possible for a discharge. A pardon is with regards to a criminal record. I understand that a conviction may have taken place in the eyes of the US but I cannot change that it isn't looked at as a conviction in Canada.

So, I get the record search for the locality that I lived in when all this happened (which is already in the works). Assuming it is clear (as expected by the law in that city) then I also need court documents of the initial charge and discharge?

I don't even know how to begin that search. Certainly it will take time.

Off I go to start calling the courts.

You are confusing the Canadian meaning of "pardon" (a process) with the textbook definition of "pardon".

From Black's Law Dictionary

Pardon: The act or an instance of officially nullifying punishment or other legal consequences of a crime

Even though your record was exponged, you were still arrested, convicted and served a sentence. After your setence was completed, you were pardoned from your crime and as a result your record was expunged. That does not change the fact that you were indeed charged, convicted and had a sentence to serve.

The US Government wants to know whether you were ever charged and convicted of a crime so they can determine if it involved in a crime of moral turpitude that would render you inadmissible. They do not care if Canada expunged your record or if there is no record of your crime.

You must divulge the crime and let them determine whether or not a waiver will be required. Failure to divulge the crime will bring a lot more problems later than the mere need of getting a waiver that in most cases is a slam dunk to get...

Do not put yourself in serious risk... you must answer "yes"

About what record is required... the court that convicted you should still have the records from the case, even though your criminal record may have been expunged. If they say the archives may have it, you want to request a copy of the complete case file or at the very least, a copy of the complaint or indictment and the subsequent judgement.

If the court no longer has the records, then you could contact the police department that arrested you for a copy of their arrest records and the results of their investigation.

You could also contact the Crown Attorney and your attorney that served on the case for a copy of their records.

Edited November 2, 2006 by zyggy

[wally 0]

zyggy,

I believe she has answered honestly on the DS-156, which is why she is madly searching for the arrest records in the locality of the incident and gathering as much evidence from the RCMP as well. Also, is there a difference if the judgement was a form of restitution rather then 'time served' and a conditional discharge vs. expungement.

This is a prime example of how the folly of our youth can come back to bite you good.

[zyggy 9]

zyggy,

I believe she has answered honestly on the DS-156, which is why she is madly searching for the arrest records in the locality of the incident and gathering as much evidence from the RCMP as well. Also, is there a difference if the judgement was a form of restitution rather then 'time served' and a conditional discharge vs. expungement.

This is a prime example of how the folly of our youth can come back to bite you good.

Wally...

She could not have answered yes yet as the DS-156 is handed in at the interview... but I understand your point...

It does not matter what the restitution that was given. In terms on whether a waiver is needed, all this is required is the type of crime and the maximum sentence possible if the crime were committed in the US.

There are lots of cases where a sentence may be commuted by the judge for petty crimes but the maximum setence for that crime is more that a year. If the crime is a crime of moral truptiude and the maximum sentence for the crime is longer than a year, then according to the INA the alien is inadmissible and a I-601 waiver of inadmissibility is required.

Edited November 2, 2006 by zyggy

[David and Karen 0]

zyggy,

I believe she has answered honestly on the DS-156, which is why she is madly searching for the arrest records in the locality of the incident and gathering as much evidence from the RCMP as well. Also, is there a difference if the judgement was a form of restitution rather then 'time served' and a conditional discharge vs. expungement.

This is a prime example of how the folly of our youth can come back to bite you good.

Wally...

She could not have answered yes yet as the DS-156 is handed in at the interview... but I understand your point...

It does not matter what the restitution that was given. In terms on whether a waiver is needed, all this is required is the type of crime and the maximum sentence possible if the crime were committed in the US.

There are lots of cases where a sentence may be commuted by the judge for petty crimes but the maximum setence for that crime is more that a year. If the crime is a crime of moral truptiude and the maximum sentence for the crime is longer than a year, then according to the INA the alien is inadmissible and a I-601 waiver of inadmissibility is required.

Ok just so we are all clear here.....although I have not had the interview yet.....I have completed and printed the DS-156. I have answers YES to the question regarding arrest etc. My intention has never been to lie or mislead anyone about this. I think based on my recent zillion posts I have been clear myself that I am scrambling to get the necessary information that I might add is NOT clearly publicized by the Montreal consulate or any other US agency that I can find record of online. Perhaps it is out there but I have literally spent hours researching and I cannot find anything of the sort. I do have information from Montreal stating if there was an arrest that I need a record check specifically from that locality regardless of the time I may have lived there. I have that. It too is clear. I cannot find any information from Montreal telling me exactly what they want if anything to support the advice here.

So please please please....send me the links! Send me the information site that has the text book definition of pardon. Send me to where you are getting this wealth of info so I can be prepared.

I cannot stress that after spending almost a year working on this process I am not prepared to toss it by being dishonest on the 156.

I have called the court where it took place and posted on here regarding it. They want to know exactly what I need from archives.

Throw me a bone!

[zyggy 9]

zyggy,

I believe she has answered honestly on the DS-156, which is why she is madly searching for the arrest records in the locality of the incident and gathering as much evidence from the RCMP as well. Also, is there a difference if the judgement was a form of restitution rather then 'time served' and a conditional discharge vs. expungement.

This is a prime example of how the folly of our youth can come back to bite you good.

Wally...

She could not have answered yes yet as the DS-156 is handed in at the interview... but I understand your point...

It does not matter what the restitution that was given. In terms on whether a waiver is needed, all this is required is the type of crime and the maximum sentence possible if the crime were committed in the US.

There are lots of cases where a sentence may be commuted by the judge for petty crimes but the maximum setence for that crime is more that a year. If the crime is a crime of moral truptiude and the maximum sentence for the crime is longer than a year, then according to the INA the alien is inadmissible and a I-601 waiver of inadmissibility is required.

Ok just so we are all clear here.....although I have not had the interview yet.....I have completed and printed the DS-156. I have answers YES to the question regarding arrest etc. My intention has never been to lie or mislead anyone about this. I think based on my recent zillion posts I have been clear myself that I am scrambling to get the necessary information that I might add is NOT clearly publicized by the Montreal consulate or any other US agency that I can find record of online. Perhaps it is out there but I have literally spent hours researching and I cannot find anything of the sort. I do have information from Montreal stating if there was an arrest that I need a record check specifically from that locality regardless of the time I may have lived there. I have that. It too is clear. I cannot find any information from Montreal telling me exactly what they want if anything to support the advice here.

So please please please....send me the links! Send me the information site that has the text book definition of pardon. Send me to where you are getting this wealth of info so I can be prepared.

I cannot stress that after spending almost a year working on this process I am not prepared to toss it by being dishonest on the 156.

I have called the court where it took place and posted on here regarding it. They want to know exactly what I need from archives.

Throw me a bone!

\

Ok... sounds good... I haven't read your previous posts and I apologize...

What you will need from the archives is a copy of the complaint/indictment that outlines the charges against you and a copy of the judgement that shows the courts decision regarding the charges outlined in the indictment and outlines the associated penalty that went along with it... You need to get both since the judgement usually refers to the indictment. That should be good enough for them to make a decision on the nature of the crime in order for them to determine if a crime of moral turpitude was committed. If for any reason they would want more (which I wouldn't see since it would mostly be testimony, evidence, etc that really has no point in the matter), they will ask for it.

Edited November 2, 2006 by zyggy

[David and Karen 0]

Ok... sounds good... I haven't read your previous posts and I apologize...

What you will need from the archives is a copy of the complaint/indictment that outlines the charges against you and a copy of the judgement that shows the courts decision regarding the charges outlined in the indictment and outlines the associated penalty that went along with it... You need to get both since the judgement usually refers to the indictment. That should be good enough for them to make a decision on the nature of the crime in order for them to determine if a crime of moral turpitude was committed. If for any reason they would want more (which I wouldn't see since it would mostly be testimony, evidence, etc that really has no point in the matter), they will ask for it.

Thank you for the input. I have since contacted Montreal. They don't require what you mention and confirm that what I have is sufficient. But because this thread has me wigged out beyong belief I am now going to make my next mission one of trying to get these suggested items.

I will call the court back tomorrow and ask for those you listed.

In the meantime can you let me know where you have found this information please? I've asked a few times for the links or source so I can brush up on research myself. Much appreciated, thanks!

Karen

[bucknekkid 0]

Ok... sounds good... I haven't read your previous posts and I apologize...

What you will need from the archives is a copy of the complaint/indictment that outlines the charges against you and a copy of the judgement that shows the courts decision regarding the charges outlined in the indictment and outlines the associated penalty that went along with it... You need to get both since the judgement usually refers to the indictment. That should be good enough for them to make a decision on the nature of the crime in order for them to determine if a crime of moral turpitude was committed. If for any reason they would want more (which I wouldn't see since it would mostly be testimony, evidence, etc that really has no point in the matter), they will ask for it.

Thank you for the input. I have since contacted Montreal. They don't require what you mention and confirm that what I have is sufficient. But because this thread has me wigged out beyong belief I am now going to make my next mission one of trying to get these suggested items.

I will call the court back tomorrow and ask for those you listed.

In the meantime can you let me know where you have found this information please? I've asked a few times for the links or source so I can brush up on research myself. Much appreciated, thanks!

Karen

Zyggy, you have much knowledge of this process, but you have ignored Karen's request on the location of the information of which you speak. Please share with Karen and the others on this Fourm so we may all be as well informed as you.

Thanks....