The discussion on Muslims in Here

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I don't phrase my remarks like that, because I don't care to make sweeping generalizations about all Saudis being misogynists. Saudi Arabia has a long way to go with women's rights, but not all Saudis "treat their women" in a despicable manner.

Saudi Arabia the country has laws that treat women like cattle. As in they can't drive, vote , etc etc. To say Saudis as a whole treat women badly is not a mis statement and I stand by it .

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Poor cattle, unable to drive or vote.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Saudi Arabia the country has laws that treat women like cattle. As in they can't drive, vote , etc etc. To say Saudis as a whole treat women badly is not a mis statement and I stand by it .

Actually, Saudi women can vote. During my lifetime, the US has had laws that treated women like cattle, too. Not something we forget, but progress has been made. Saudi will make theirs, too.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Saudi Arabia the country has laws that treat women like cattle. As in they can't drive, vote , etc etc. To say Saudis as a whole treat women badly is not a mis statement and I stand by it .

I would agree with you if you want to criticize the Saudi government, as they are the ones who make the rules.

Do the Saudi people get to elect their government ? No. It is a religious absolute monarchy, controlled and dominated by the Saudi royal family.

Do the Saudi people get to have any meaningful role in politics ? No.

Do the Saudi people get to make any peaceful protests against their government ? Not really, although you see sparks of small-scale or individual actions, such as women defying the law against them driving (and usually with their husbands right by their sides as they take the wheel.)

So this is why I do not like to make generalizations about the Saudi people on the basis of Saudi laws, because the people don't really get any say in those laws.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Perhaps the Arab Spring may yet make its way to some of the monarchical governments. In that case, considering the US dependence on Saudi oil, where would the current administration's sympathies lie? Saudi Arabia is the US's strongest economic ally in the world, the government that is. Among the population, perhaps less so, given all the anti-US groups that have been generated from there, and receive support from the loyal subjects of that country.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Perhaps the Arab Spring may yet make its way to some of the monarchical governments. In that case, considering the US dependence on Saudi oil, where would the current administration's sympathies lie? Saudi Arabia is the US's strongest economic ally in the world, the government that is. Among the population, perhaps less so, given all the anti-US groups that have been generated from there, and receive support from the loyal subjects of that country.

Although they carried titles such as "President," etc., most of the rulers who have been overthrown (in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Yemen) were essentially functioning as monarchs - dictators for life who were grooming their own family members for succession.

Of course, the U.S. would prefer to keep the Saudi monarchy in place, due to its existing oil agreements. It's much easier to make plum deals with favorable benefits for the U.S. if you're dealing with a dictator and his family rather than a democratic government - who cares if the people get screwed as long as the U.S. gets what it wants, at a bargain price. What Saudi Arabia does "internally," even its human rights violations, is hardly a blip on the radar to U.S. government concerns - much like it was with the Mubarak regime. As long as the dictator/kings uphold U.S. policies, Washington doesn't care what they do to their people. It's only when the dictator/kings go off the reservation that you start hearing the U.S. making noise about the need for "freedom" and "human rights" and "democracy" for those countries.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Saudi Arabia the country has laws that treat women like cattle. As in they can't drive, vote , etc etc. To say Saudis as a whole treat women badly is not a mis statement and I stand by it .

Women in Saudi Arabia are where American women were 100+ years ago and where they will be heading back to, if the GOP has its way with its notion of 'legal' rape and other medieval concepts.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I would agree with you if you want to criticize the Saudi government, as they are the ones who make the rules.

Do the Saudi people get to elect their government ? No. It is a religious absolute monarchy, controlled and dominated by the Saudi royal family.

Do the Saudi people get to have any meaningful role in politics ? No.

Do the Saudi people get to make any peaceful protests against their government ? Not really, although you see sparks of small-scale or individual actions, such as women defying the law against them driving (and usually with their husbands right by their sides as they take the wheel.)

So this is why I do not like to make generalizations about the Saudi people on the basis of Saudi laws, because the people don't really get any say in those laws.

Fair enough.. It may be that the reason they fear Israel so bad, is the spread of democracy not the spread of Judaism. They need to rise up.. So is it fair to say that Islam is used to keep the peasants in place ?? Certainly religion has been used thought history to try and keep people in Bondage and repress people. The U.S. used the "serve your master" aspect to try and keep slaves in check.

[sandinista! 1,816]

This is not unlike China. Lovely place, lovely, brilliant people. It's a shame the government that the majority of Chinese have no say in whatsoever does the horrid, awful things it does. It would never have occurred to me to view the entire country through that same lens though.

I would agree with you if you want to criticize the Saudi government, as they are the ones who make the rules.

Do the Saudi people get to elect their government ? No. It is a religious absolute monarchy, controlled and dominated by the Saudi royal family.

Do the Saudi people get to have any meaningful role in politics ? No.

Do the Saudi people get to make any peaceful protests against their government ? Not really, although you see sparks of small-scale or individual actions, such as women defying the law against them driving (and usually with their husbands right by their sides as they take the wheel.)

So this is why I do not like to make generalizations about the Saudi people on the basis of Saudi laws, because the people don't really get any say in those laws.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Fair enough.. It may be that the reason they fear Israel so bad, is the spread of democracy not the spread of Judaism. They need to rise up.. So is it fair to say that Islam is used to keep the peasants in place ?? Certainly religion has been used thought history to try and keep people in Bondage and repress people. The U.S. used the "serve your master" aspect to try and keep slaves in check.

Muslims (as well as Arab Christians) don't "fear" Judaism or the spread of Judaism. Jews lived in Muslim lands in peace and safety for centuries while European countries were conducting progroms against them - Muslims are quite aware of their history. And Judaism is no longer a proselytizing religion anyway, so it doesn't really "spread" anyway; it is mostly "inherited" among a small group whose rate of population growth is relatively small.

What Muslims (as well as Arab Christians) are so angry about is what Zionism has inflicted on them - first, the establishment of Israel as a Jewish State in a land that was predominantly Muslim with a sizeable Christian minority, at the grievous expense of and without the consent of the indigenous population. A million Palestinians were driven out of their homeland, and turned into refugees, refused to right to return to their homes. Millions more are internal refugees (still living inside historic Palestine) but refused the right to return to their property or their right to self-determination to have their own country (as in Gaza and the West Bank.) The repercussions of those injustices continue to reverberate.

But what makes Muslims (and Arab Christians) even angrier is Israel's perceived free reign to continue oppressing the Palestinians to this day, its refusal to allow a Palestinian state, and its ongoing occupation and colonization of Palestinians' remaining land, as well as American support and defense of Israel's policies.

That's the brief synopsis.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Women in Saudi Arabia are where American women were 100+ years ago and where they will be heading back to, if the GOP has its way with its notion of 'legal' rape and other medieval concepts.

Oh dear lord do you really believe such asinine hoarse ####### as that

[sandinista! 1,816]

Oh dear lord do you really believe such asinine hoarse ####### as that

he's not yelling, i'm sure his voice is just fine.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

he's not yelling, i'm sure his voice is just fine.

No one said anything about his voice or volume. Saying electing a Republican will set back women 100 years in this country is just absurd.

[sandinista! 1,816]

No one said anything about his voice or volume. Saying electing a Republican will set back women 100 years in this country is just absurd.

i was just playing with your hoarse typo.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

i was just playing with your hoarse typo.

ahhh Typos be me.