Tourist Visa Denied to Son --- cannot understand it

[0789 0]

You forgot to thump your chest. I am going to sit back and watch how futile your 'determination' will be....thousands of other self appointed know-it-alls have tried and failed and you are no different. Gosh, I can just imagine how Congress will rush to change our laws once they read your whining remarks on some silly internet site......yea....

[/quot

hi i have one question if anyone can answer ... is it possible to get usa tourist visa if immigration for canada is pending ? i want to visit usa but immigration for canada is in process it will take some time and i got mail from canada high commision to subbmit my passport but i cant subbmit at the time bcz i want to travel usa n i req them i ll send my passport after returning from usa and they agreed to it so my ques is is it poss to get tourist visa if i ll show them all these proofs obviously m not gona stay in usa my husband is canadian plzz replyyyy

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Yes it is possible. Without knowing any more about your situation, that's the best anyone can say.

To the OP - Consular officers are well trained. They are not mindless drones pushing paperwork around. A part of their job is national security, and they take it seriously.

I think Bob had a good point. Immigration is for reuniting families. Is your family planning to move to the US when he gets his visa? Or are you just trying to get him a ticket to the US?

[Noah Lot 391]

My wife and I are Americans living in Northern Thailand, and we go back to the US on visits. We want to take my son in law, who could help my wife because she now has a physical handicap and needs assistance, plus he would like to see America. My son in law owns his own business generating an income, has a wife and lives with her, has money in the bank --- he is also an adult (31 yrs), responsible and has no reason to stay in the US. Almost 4 years ago, we applied for him to get a green card in the US as an adult son of US citizens (my step son, my wife's real son). That is still in process, and we have been told it will take about 8 years (4-5 more years) before he will get that green card.

So my son goes to the Chiang Mai, Thailand, consulate to apply for a B-2 Tourist visa --- has all his documents and everything is A.O.K. The consulate interviewer said he would qualify on the basis of everything, EXCEPT he says the law says you cannot get a tourist visa if you have a residence visa (green card) pending. He quotes and puts in writing that my son is denied because of section 214(b) in the Immigration code.

I have tried to find that law, and I cannot find it anywhere. That section 214(b) says nothing about unable to qualify because he has a green card application pending. I check the regulations about green cards, and it says nothing about not being able to get a tourist visa during the process. I have scanned as much of the US laws regarding visas I can find and have found nothing. To me, it seems like this consulate officer just made it up.

My personal opinion is that the consulate has an agenda of denial. Their goal is to get as many applicants as possible, paying $160, give them a matter of minutes (like two or three), and then deny them. It must be a good maker for the US government.

For an American to visit Thailand, they don't need a visa at all. Just pop into the airport of other immigration point with a US passport and 30 days is automatically given.

I wrote to the consulate myself with this question, but they don't even respond. They promise to get back to me in 48 hours but that is like a joke.

So my question to this forum is: does anyone know about this regulation? Where is it in US laws and codes? And any suggestions of how I can get the visa granters to be more reasonable and fair?

still no change to our laws....

[Harsh_77 718]

OP - I certainly will not agree with you.In this whole topic you have been more arrogant and not willing to listen why your son’s visa was rejected.

I explained to you in my earlier post many ppl like Aarron, Noah tried to explain it to you as well – in general CO assumes every applicant to be have immigrant intent and would overstay their visa and applicant is supposed to prove his case why he would not overstay the visa.

In your case your son already has a immigrant petition - how was he going to prove he does not have immigrant intention? Only way you can do is withdraw the petition, are you willing to do that?

Obama does not know nothing about immigration, does he even know how many illegal residents we have in the country who has jumped their tourist visa?

What money he is talking about? Do you know how much tax payer money he spent to give that 15 min speech? He flew all the way from D.C to Orlando for 15 min speech coz he wanted the speech done in Disney.

You are free to petition do anything but the laws are meant to protect US and USC there is nothing wrong with the law.

It is just surprising that you claim to be USC and yet you do not care about US and it being over ran by overstayer and ppl on this board who are immigrant are telling you the laws are right and the CO was right.

[K & J 17]

Having a green card application pending does not automatically prevents a person from getting a tourist visa.

When my parents were LPR, the petition my sister. She already had a tourist visa and travel to the US several times without a problem. When her visa expired, she went to the Embassy to get another one. Approved without a problem.

Now, many people say they have a business, money in the bank and own property. But everything is relative. Business can many "owners" that you put in registration papers but they don't necessarily make a profit. The same with "property". A house in a 3rd world country can be worth $5,000 or $500,000. Big difference.

[aaydrian 479]

Having a green card application pending does not automatically prevents a person from getting a tourist visa.

When my parents were LPR, the petition my sister. She already had a tourist visa and travel to the US several times without a problem. When her visa expired, she went to the Embassy to get another one. Approved without a problem.

Having a pending immigrant petition doesn't automatically disqualify anyone from a tourist visa but with all your ties you may have to work twice as hard to convince a CO you aren't going run off in the US.

If you've had a B1/B2 visa before your spouse/family filed the appropriate petition and that visa expires (without the visa holder's situation changing) then you are highly likely to retain your visiting visa privileges. That's because the person with the B1/B2 visa has established a good travel history with the US (leaving when they are supposed to) so despite having a petition in play, you appear to have no reason to not return to your home country at the end of your vacation.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

].I think Bob had a good point. Immigration is for reuniting families. Is your family planning to move to the US when he gets his visa? Or are you just trying to get him a ticket to the US?

I'm glad someone else noticed how the OP simply ignored that point.

[Noah Lot 391]

Having a pending immigrant petition doesn't automatically disqualify anyone from a tourist visa but with all your ties you may have to work twice as hard to convince a CO you aren't going run off in the US.

If you've had a B1/B2 visa before your spouse/family filed the appropriate petition and that visa expires (without the visa holder's situation changing) then you are highly likely to retain your visiting visa privileges. That's because the person with the B1/B2 visa has established a good travel history with the US (leaving when they are supposed to) so despite having a petition in play, you appear to have no reason to not return to your home country at the end of your vacation.

As I said earlier, the SIL, with a pending petition, has something called 'dual intent'..in which on one hand he wants to immigrate, yet on the other claims not to want to....and this will make his tourist visa case even more challenging....note that I never stated that the SIL was instantly ineligible because there is an immigrant petition pending; only that the bar to overcoming 214b will likely be much higher, in spite of the OP's incredible 'vast' knowledge of our laws, and his own lack of perception of where he rests on the phylum chart. (yes, if the SIL had held a visa previously and used it appropriately, he would not likely have any problems)

One big point he missed (and failed to respond to)...he's claiming to be the 'employer' of all consular officials, and thus by extension, every federal government employee, every state employee (yep, his tax dollars at work) and local employees (city or county taxes), but oddly, he cannot 'order' any of those employees to do his bidding....now, OP, if you doubt this, please, tell the policeman not to give you a ticket for speeding, order the mayor to build a screened porch at your house, or pick up the phone and tell our military who to attack....can you do that? Will you do that? Nope. So why do you think you should be able to override a consular officer's decision merely because you don't agree with it? You cannot....ever. Transparency of the process is paramount...even an ambassador at one of our embassies CANNOT ISSUE VISAS, nor order any of his/her subordinates to grant a visa or overturn their decision....so if the ambassador cannot do this, why should you be able to? Congress cannot override CO's decisions...no one can. That's the way it is, and the way it will remain, no matter how much whining you attempt on the internet.....oh, BTW, did you call the consular folks and 'demand' they issue a visa? Did they jump over their desks to issue the visa....?? or did they just ignore you..? Just wondering.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Noah Lot

[Noah Lot 391]

"(You)overlook the enormous cost of doing business overseas in a consulate...what you are not aware of is the virtually all of the costs of running a consulate overseas is borne by those same application fees...no taxpayer dollars are at work."

No taxpayer dollars used to run a consulate? And the entire consulate operation is supported by the large visa fees?

That would come as a shock to most Americans, especially when the US State department is spending many billions to support overseas consulates. For 2013, the budget is $6.5 Billion for the civilians working at embassies and consulates, another $1.4 Billion for security personnel at consulates and another $4.5 Billion to American support staff and other costs for running the consulates. All that is paid for by the enormous tax burden on US citizens. But if as you say, the high fees the consulate charges for one minute rejections of people wanting to visit the US is so essential for their income, it would explain why they always push for everyone to re-submit (and repay) to go through the process all over again.

"Now of course, if you know our laws so much better than our consular corps, and fully believe you know more about the entire process than they do, by all means drop them a letter explaining your bona fides...how knows...they might hire you as the Chief Consular Officer....."

You really are over the top in your arrogant attitude, and dripping with sarcasm. It is an American tradition to voice protest where there seems to be unfairness. You sarcastic remark reflects an attitude of just shut up and comply. "If you could do better --- you do the job...." If we all just had this kind of thinkiing, we would still be saying Yes Sir to the descendents of King George III. To you, Mr. Arrogant, I say that I am not an authority on the law, but that does not preclude that I should shut up and obey. When I see wrong, it is wrong for me to do nothing.

I believe you must be employed by the consular corps, and if so, I would like to remind you that you are paid by me to represent my best interests as an American citizen and taxpayer. Not to lecture others about how consular corp civil service employees are so much better than us regular folk because of the great knowledge you possess.

You are not empowered to tell me what to do under any circumstances, no matter if I was a consular official or anyone else. My lectures are free of charge.

I'm glad someone else noticed how the OP simply ignored that point.

The OP reminds of me one Mitt Romney, who when asked questions for which he has no logical, rational answer, dodges the question and blames Obama, while campaigning to cut taxes for the rich and deregulate government....the usual blather of that party.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Noah Lot

[Harsh_77 718]

Having a green card application pending does not automatically prevents a person from getting a tourist visa.

When my parents were LPR, the petition my sister. She already had a tourist visa and travel to the US several times without a problem. When her visa expired, she went to the Embassy to get another one. Approved without a problem.

Now, many people say they have a business, money in the bank and own property. But everything is relative. Business can many "owners" that you put in registration papers but they don't necessarily make a profit. The same with "property". A house in a 3rd world country can be worth $5,000 or $500,000. Big difference.

You missed the key points in your case, your sis already had a visa before a petition was filed and she had used that visa couple times demonstrating she had ample opportunity to overstay her visa if she wanted to do.

This makes it easier for the CO to re-issue the visa as she would be low risk applicant.

[ExpatChiangMai 0]

One big point he missed (and failed to respond to)...he's claiming to be the 'employer' of all consular officials, and thus by extension, every federal government employee, every state employee (yep, his tax dollars at work) and local employees (city or county taxes), but oddly, he cannot 'order' any of those employees to do his bidding....now, OP, if you doubt this, please, tell the policeman not to give you a ticket for speeding, order the mayor to build a screened porch at your house, or pick up the phone and tell our military who to attack....can you do that? Will you do that? Nope. So why do you think you should be able to override a consular officer's decision merely because you don't agree with it? You cannot....ever. Transparency of the process is paramount...even an ambassador at one of our embassies CANNOT ISSUE VISAS, nor order any of his/her subordinates to grant a visa or overturn their decision....so if the ambassador cannot do this, why should you be able to? Congress cannot override CO's decisions...no one can. That's the way it is, and the way it will remain, no matter how much whining you attempt on the internet.....oh, BTW, did you call the consular folks and 'demand' they issue a visa? Did they jump over their desks to issue the visa....?? or did they just ignore you..? Just wondering.

You are not getting the point at all. A policeman gives me a ticket, and I can accept it and pay it --- but if I think it is wrong, I can take it to court and have a unbiased authority (a judge) hear my side of the story and if he agrees with me, the ticket can be reversed. If the judge goes against me and I want to protest further, I can appeal it. That is the American system. The same goes for any agency decision --- the FBI, the FTC, the FDA and every other government agency. I have the option of appeal, to have someone else arbitrate if I feel strongly that the something is wrong.

And yes, I can make my voice heard with congress and with even the president, however in those cases it often takes me gathering up a lot of like minded people to protest with me. A single person, however, can make a difference, and there are countless examples of this in the US.

With a consular interview employee making an arbitrary decision, there is absolutely no appeal. I cannot even talk to their boss, and certainly cannot take it to court. That one individual, the consulate interviewer serves as policeman, judge, jury and executes the punishment with no oversight at all, and no method of appeal in any way. That's wrong, and it is sad that so few see those on this forum that just accepts that.

Some of the comments here have been helpful. But some which seem to come from either consulate employees or people who very much support them without questioning anything, just tell me to shut up, the system is perfect and we should never question the great wisdom of a consulate employee. Why when someone questions the system or the interpretation of a vague statute by a single consular employee do so many here give fiery responses with personal attacks.

And dear Mr. Noah-it-all, don't tell me if I could do it better why don't they just give the job of ruling over thugish consular employees. I don't want the job --- I don't want any kind of government job. I don't need a job. But government employees should understand who they report to, who is the boss, and who should be given respect. That is me and every other American citizen taxpayer.

[aaydrian 479]

With a consular interview employee making an arbitrary decision, there is absolutely no appeal. I cannot even talk to their boss, and certainly cannot take it to court. That one individual, the consulate interviewer serves as policeman, judge, jury and executes the punishment with no oversight at all, and no method of appeal in any way. That's wrong, and it is sad that so few see those on this forum that just accepts that.

Some of the comments here have been helpful. But some which seem to come from either consulate employees or people who very much support them without questioning anything, just tell me to shut up, the system is perfect and we should never question the great wisdom of a consulate employee. Why when someone questions the system or the interpretation of a vague statute by a single consular employee do so many here give fiery responses with personal attacks.

And dear Mr. Noah-it-all, don't tell me if I could do it better why don't they just give the job of ruling over thugish consular employees. I don't want the job --- I don't want any kind of government job. I don't need a job. But government employees should understand who they report to, who is the boss, and who should be given respect. That is me and every other American citizen taxpayer.

I know people don't like hearing this but...calm down.

The system that the consulate/embassy has in place works perfectly fine where if you don't meet the criteria you don't get a visa but will be approved if everything for the applicant is in order. Sometimes it's not just what is on the application but how the applicant is during the interview and the vibe the person is giving off. So person A & B are identical in every way on paper but something is 'off' with A at interview and he gets refused but B 'woo-hoos' all the way to give DHL his information.

The issue here is you're only upset because your step son was refused. You, deep down know you are only up in arms because you were personally negatively affected and not because the system is truly flawed. Would you be crying foul if my mother got refused a visa? How bout Noah's cousin? Bob's wife? Harsh's sister? A Thai stranger who genuinely only wants to visit the US? My guess is you would be on your veranda sipping beer with not a care in the world. It is true that Americans (when it boils down to it) are the dictators to the laws of the land. But remember it was a Thai who was denied the privilege of entering the US as a tourist. And if you should question the CO/the supervisor they would not answer you in reference to a non American when no great injustice has occurred.

IS YOUR STEP SON IMMIGRATING TO AMERICA FOR FAMILY REUNIFICATION (to be with you & his mom) OR WILL HE BE IN AMERICA WHILE YOU & HIS MOM REMAIN IN THAILAND?

Edited September 15, 2012 by aaydrian

[Confused 2 94]

What really gets to me is that the officer makes a decision and there is never any appeal allowed. In our case, I think if I were able to explain it to an impartial judge, I would get a more reasonable result. Even in the criminal streets in the US, the cop on the beat is not allowed to be cop--judge-jury for anything he sees, and then only respond with vague answers, like it is "against the law". There is a level of fairness and courtesy that should be expected from the bureaucrats that are representing us (meaning representing my wife and I, taxpaying citizens). I don't see it here.

And all this in the context that any American with a passport can simply pop into Thailand and be granted a 30 days stay with no cost for processing. There should be reciprocal fairness in the process.

I am sure those bereaucrats will be happy to help you and wife with anything but where do you get the notion that your adult step son is entitled to anything when it comes to visiting the USA or immigrating (whatever the case). He has already shown that he wants to live in the US by applying for an immigrant visa so now in all fairness and courtesy, he should wait his time, like everybody else.

[ExpatChiangMai 0]

I know people don't like hearing this but...calm down.

The system that the consulate/embassy has in place works perfectly fine where if you don't meet the criteria you don't get a visa but will be approved if everything for the applicant is in order. Sometimes it's not just what is on the application but how the applicant is during the interview and the vibe the person is giving off. So person A & B are identical in every way on paper but something is 'off' with A at interview and he gets refused but B 'woo-hoos' all the way to give DHL his information.

The issue here is you're only upset because your step son was refused. You, deep down know you are only up in arms because you were personally negatively affected and not because the system is truly flawed. Would you be crying foul if my mother got refused a visa? How bout Noah's cousin? Bob's wife? Harsh's sister? A Thai stranger who genuinely only wants to visit the US? My guess is you would be on your veranda sipping beer with not a care in the world. It is true that Americans (when it boils down to it) are the dictators to the laws of the land. But remember it was a Thai who was denied the privilege of entering the US as a tourist. And if you should question the CO/the supervisor they would not answer you in reference to a non American when no great injustice has occurred.

IS YOUR STEP SON IMMIGRATING TO AMERICA FOR FAMILY REUNIFICATION (to be with you & his mom) OR WILL HE BE IN AMERICA WHILE YOU & HIS MOM REMAIN IN THAILAND?

You make your point well, and you may be correct about if someone else I do not know was affected. I have to ponder that. Definitely a good point.

Answering your question, NO my son at this point has no desire or need to migrate to the US. And my wife and I are very well settled in Thailand and have no desire to live in the US any more. We'll stay here for the duration. We applied for my son's green card four years ago in order to have an option for him. If he has a desire to go there and pursue opportunities, he would be able to do it with that card. And we do have some family business interests in the US that he could maintain --- and will have to do that after my wife and I are passed on. He has a sister living there (my step daughter) that a US citizen married to an American native born, and has some wonderful kids --- my grandchildren --- that our son has never even met. And my son has never met other family members that are unable to come to Thailand because of age (too old or too young). The purpose of the visitor visa we were applying for was for a two week visit back to the US, to meet with family and do a little personal business. My wife is handicapped right now because of a car accident and is unable to use her right arm. My son would be going with her to help her, to see family, to see a few sights and then return home with my wife back to Thailand (I am staying here).

My son's income in Thailand is comparable to a US income. He is married, and his wife also owns a small business in Thailand. He is adequate assets in Thailand. He would absolutely return from his two week vacation in the US, and anyone examining his personal situation would agree. Unfortunately, the consulate employee that interviewed him did not even look at any of this. His interview was less than 3 minutes long. He simply said, can't do it because it is against the law with a green card application pending (and there is no law like that), and to "try again" (which translates to "pay again"). It took him hours to prepare all the paperwork, and we paid a fee which I think is unreasonably high ($160), and it seems to me that he should have been given more consideration. But lacking that, I think he should have been able to appeal that quickly made decision --- which is based on an interpretation of a vague law by this one consulate employee.

[Confused 2 94]

You are not getting the point at all. A policeman gives me a ticket, and I can accept it and pay it --- but if I think it is wrong, I can take it to court and have a unbiased authority (a judge) hear my side of the story and if he agrees with me, the ticket can be reversed. If the judge goes against me and I want to protest further, I can appeal it. That is the American system. The same goes for any agency decision --- the FBI, the FTC, the FDA and every other government agency. I have the option of appeal, to have someone else arbitrate if I feel strongly that the something is wrong.

And yes, I can make my voice heard with congress and with even the president, however in those cases it often takes me gathering up a lot of like minded people to protest with me. A single person, however, can make a difference, and there are countless examples of this in the US.

With a consular interview employee making an arbitrary decision, there is absolutely no appeal. I cannot even talk to their boss, and certainly cannot take it to court. That one individual, the consulate interviewer serves as policeman, judge, jury and executes the punishment with no oversight at all, and no method of appeal in any way. That's wrong, and it is sad that so few see those on this forum that just accepts that.

Some of the comments here have been helpful. But some which seem to come from either consulate employees or people who very much support them without questioning anything, just tell me to shut up, the system is perfect and we should never question the great wisdom of a consulate employee. Why when someone questions the system or the interpretation of a vague statute by a single consular employee do so many here give fiery responses with personal attacks.

And dear Mr. Noah-it-all, don't tell me if I could do it better why don't they just give the job of ruling over thugish consular employees. I don't want the job --- I don't want any kind of government job. I don't need a job. But government employees should understand who they report to, who is the boss, and who should be given respect. That is me and every other American citizen taxpayer.

Yes you can, except, the BIG difference is that your ADULT step-son is not an American citizen and is not entitled to anything, whether, its a tourist visa or immigration or an explanation.