‘Anti-Islam’ film spurs U.S. embassy, consulate attacks in Cairo, Benghazi

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

I don't eat funions, but even if I did, read what WOM posted. Do it carefully, slowly. The Administration did not "back" the Egyptian dictator. Sorry. Wrong.

They did continue to deal with him while he was in power. Very very different.

First you give me the funions and then we'll discuss the issue of what WOM allegedly posted. The tacit approval or as a former President put it, "you're either with us or against us," means that by not condemning the actions of Mubarak, they supported him. The US wields a great deal of power and a tiny action can have great consequences. You are trying to split hairs when you have made a bald assertion.

[B_J 2,752]

I was talking about the rank-and-file demonstrators, not the small group who participated in the pre-planned attack.

It's not really so difficult to incite people who are already angry about something or perceive a threat to their way of life... who've been conditioned or "programmed" to view a particular group as their enemy or a particular act as intolerable. And being in the middle of a mob provides cover and anonymity for acts that many people probably wouldn't take part in individually, on their own. We've seen it so many times - at Klan lynchings, on Kristallnacht, in Jerusalem between right-wing extremists and Arab residents, even at soccer games between fans of opposing teams, etc. etc.

That's what makes incitement so dangerous.

I can definitely understand what you're saying about mob mentality.

Now, at the risk of derailing this thread into a polite discussion, in your opinion what's the solution? Can't these people understand that every time somebody does something insulting doesn't mean they have to all protest at the US embassy?

[sandinista! 1,816]

I don't understand what's wrong with non-violent protest as a form of expression? No matter where it takes place. It's kind of an important right. It's like telling the film makers, can't they understand they don't need to be dumba$$es?

They're engaging in free expression. Like it or not. It's when it escalates to violence and destruction and trespassing that it's a problem.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Let's see, you're from Georgia. Georgia has some folks who are Klan and wish to lynch the President. Therefore, you must be Klan and wish to lynch the President. You might say, " I'm not Klan, I don't hate black folks and while I may not agree with the President, I don't want to lynch him." You haven't openly come out said that you aren't Klan and wish no harm to the President, thus you and all the people in Georgia must be Klan supporters and want to lynch the President. There are other states that have Klan, therefore everyone in those states must be Klan supporters and want to kill the President. The press comes by and 2,000 people burn effigies of President Obama and have white hoods, the other 5.5 million people in the Greater Atlanta area think that they're crazy so they don't discuss them and avoid them. Who gets the coverage and what would someone who knew little or nothing about Georgia think? The press wouldn't bother to interview or show the 5.5 million average people, they are just too boring and not newsworthy. The press would gravitate to the crazies. Let's say I'm at home watching TV, I see people in robes in Atlanta burning effigies of President Obama, I might easily be led to believe that Georgia is teaming with Klan who are out to kill The President. I see a similar incidents in Alabama and North Carolina and Mississippi and suddenly two plus two equals four: everyone in the South is Klan and they all want to lynch the President. Since "normal" folks didn't condemn it or the press didn't give much coverage of their condemnations, it must be true.

That was well written and a good analogy. Kudos... However

The difference is the Klan is not supported by upwards of 50% of the population in Ga. The Klan does not have a well organized global terror network and members of the Klan are not heads of state, such as in Iran. The Klan does not enforce it backward law on everyone, and suppress women in whole countries, and deny them such basic rights as ... Voting...The right to drive....and a host of other stupid backwards things that many Islamic countries do.

Also I took a Company of Natl Guard to ATL one time to pull security at a skin head rally. Do you know why we were there ?? To protect the Skin Heads and Klan who were outnumbered 1000-1. Think about that .

[sandinista! 1,816]

The state of Louisiana sent David Duke to Congress.

Regardless, this alleged 750 million strong support for AQ amongst the world's 1.5 billion Muslims exists only in the minds of people who don't have a clue.

Saudi Arabia represents but the tiniest blip of the Muslim world, and it's nefarious policies and nonsensical laws about women voting and driving and other such nonsense are reviled and denounced by a very substantial amount of Muslims. ie, most people that happen to be Muslim think that ####### is as crazy as you think it is. Guess what mr Run--we both think many of the same things are evil, crazy, hick and stupid! But in my household of 4 Muslims, 2 of us are supposed to be holding a candle for AQ?

Dude, no. Just no.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

The state of Louisiana sent David Duke to Congress.

Regardless, this alleged 750 million strong support for AQ amongst the world's 1.5 billion Muslims exists only in the minds of people who don't have a clue.

Saudi Arabia represents but the tiniest blip of the Muslim world, and it's nefarious policies and nonsensical laws about women voting and driving and other such nonsense are reviled and denounced by a very substantial amount of Muslims. ie, most people that happen to be Muslim think that ####### is as crazy as you think it is. Guess what mr Run--we both think many of the same things are evil, crazy, hick and stupid! But in my household of 4 Muslims, 2 of us are supposed to be holding a candle for AQ?

Dude, no. Just no.

You know what.. All blustering and arguing aside, I am glad to hear that. You and your fellow Muslims need to do more to get that kind of statement you just made out and in the public eye.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I can definitely understand what you're saying about mob mentality.

Now, at the risk of derailing this thread into a polite discussion, in your opinion what's the solution? Can't these people understand that every time somebody does something insulting doesn't mean they have to all protest at the US embassy?

In their world, the concept of free speech has yet to sink in. They believe that the West is essentially anti-Islam (and much in the media indicates that), and that western governments must condone such attacks. Dictatorial governments controlled the media and speech under their systems and most of them now of no other way. Freedom is something that has to be learned. For most of human existence, and on most of the planet, it has not been the norm.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

In their world, the concept of free speech has yet to sink in. They believe that the West is essentially anti-Islam (and much in the media indicates that), and that western governments must condone such attacks. Dictatorial governments controlled the media and speech under their systems and most of them now of no other way. Freedom is something that has to be learned. For most of human existence, and on most of the planet, it has not been the norm.

And even in the West, where we pride ourselves on freedom of expression, and the like, our freedoms are limited, as demonstrated by having the largest prison populations in the world, and the highest incarceration rates. The United States is the leader in both. It is all an illusion.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

That was well written and a good analogy. Kudos... However

The difference is the Klan is not supported by upwards of 50% of the population in Ga. The Klan does not have a well organized global terror network and members of the Klan are not heads of state, such as in Iran. The Klan does not enforce it backward law on everyone, and suppress women in whole countries, and deny them such basic rights as ... Voting...The right to drive....and a host of other stupid backwards things that many Islamic countries do.

Also I took a Company of Natl Guard to ATL one time to pull security at a skin head rally. Do you know why we were there ?? To protect the Skin Heads and Klan who were outnumbered 1000-1. Think about that .

They can't do that nationwide anymore, but, for several decades, they could and they did. Jim Crow was enforced by the Klan; several governors, Congressional representatives and senators were elected based on their Klan membership, including George C. Wallace, Strom Thurmond, Robert Byrd, and Bill Clinton's mentor, J. William Fulbright, to name only a few.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You know what.. All blustering and arguing aside, I am glad to hear that. You and your fellow Muslims need to do more to get that kind of statement you just made out and in the public eye.

It's been out in the public eye for decades. Whether you see it or not depends on where your eyes are.

Besides, why would you need such a pronouncement to think that would be the norm? White men kill, rape and murder everyday without a march against them or a denouement of White male culture. Most of us are more likely to be killed by a White guy than a Muslim. No White folks feel a need to speak out against it, and I've never asked them to, assuming they don't like it any more than I do.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

And even in the West, where we pride ourselves on freedom of expression, and the like, our freedoms are limited, as demonstrated by having the largest prison populations in the world, and the highest incarceration rates. The United States is the leader in both. It is all an illusion.

Not to mention all the rioting and looting done in the "civilized" west.

[웃 910]

It's been out in the public eye for decades. Whether you see it or not depends on where your eyes are.

Besides, why would you need such a pronouncement to think that would be the norm? White men kill, rape and murder everyday without a march against them or a denouement of White male culture. Most of us are more likely to be killed by a White guy than a Muslim. No White folks feel a need to speak out against it, and I've never asked them to, assuming they don't like it any more than I do.

I guess you don't understand the difference between:

1) Crime committed by a piece of #######, thug, maniac, deadbeat, drug addict, thief

2) Religious (with Islam the religion in focus) suicidal terrorist

What is not in common between row 1 and 2 is the religious aspect.

"White men kill, rape, and murder" but they aren't killing innocent people based on an interpretation of a religious book.

That is why everyone is so disgusted with the folks in row 2.

How is this apple to orange comparison not obvious to you?

Edited September 17, 2012 by ☠

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

That was well written and a good analogy. Kudos... However

The difference is the Klan is not supported by upwards of 50% of the population in Ga. The Klan does not have a well organized global terror network and members of the Klan are not heads of state, such as in Iran. The Klan does not enforce it backward law on everyone, and suppress women in whole countries, and deny them such basic rights as ... Voting...The right to drive....and a host of other stupid backwards things that many Islamic countries do.

Also I took a Company of Natl Guard to ATL one time to pull security at a skin head rally. Do you know why we were there ?? To protect the Skin Heads and Klan who were outnumbered 1000-1. Think about that .

Thanks, I know a fair number of folks from the Deep South and they don't know anyone who is Klan. The Islamists (or criminals as I like to call them) aren't supported by 50% of the population. Nobody wants them, they don't want maniac dictators, either. The President of Iran is most definitely not al-Qaeda. He is supported by less than 20% of the Iranian population. Even the Mullahs don't particularly like him. The so-called Sharia law (there's no such thing, sounds good, though) is justification by some very sick minds to enforce crazy bullsh*t. Islamic countries? You can call yourself anything you want but when closely examined their policies have NOTHING to do with Islam. The early years of Islam had some very strong and powerful women, but some troglodytes decided to ignore that. The US still hasn't passed the Equal Rights Amendment, so where does that leave us? Off the record, I've dealt with skin heads in a rather uncharitable manner.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

I guess you don't understand the difference between:

1) Crime committed by a piece of #######, thug, maniac, deadbeat, drug addict, thief

2) Religious (with Islam the religion in focus) suicidal terrorist

What is not in common between row 1 and 2 is the religious aspect.

"White men kill, rape, and murder" but they aren't killing innocent people based on an interpretation of a religious book.

That is why everyone is so disgusted with the folks in row 2.

How is this apple to orange comparison not obvious to you?

Adolf Hitler claimed to be the 3rd incarnation of the Holy Roman Empire, so he must have been a Christian. He said that he was so that's good enough for me. Tim McVeigh was a good Christian or so he claimed, he killed 264 people. Therefore, he was a good Christian. Suicide bombers make POLITICAL statements, they might throw in the perfunctory 'Allahu Akbar' but since suicide is not sanctioned by Islam so where does that leave them. That rather warm place, no doubt.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Adolf Hitler claimed to be the 3rd incarnation of the Holy Roman Empire...

Interesting. I had it all wrong...

Historically, the First Reich was the medieval Holy Roman Empire, which lasted until 1806. The Second Reich included the German Empire from 1871-1918.

The First Reich (or Empire) was the Holy Roman Empire which existed from the time of Charlemagne to 1806. The Second Reich was the German Empire of 1871-1918 created by Otto von Bismarck.

The "Third Reich" term alludes to two different series of three. The first series is that of the three German empires: the Holy Roman Empire of the German People, which formally lasted until 1806, was considered the First Reich; the German Empire, which lasted from 1871 to 1918, was the Second Reich; while the Third Reich was the empire that the Nazis aspired to set up. The second series is a "spiritual" one that comes from the ideas of a twelfth century Christian mystic. He envisioned the history of man as a series of three thousand-year kingdoms: the "kingdom of the Father," the "kingdom of the Son," and the "kingdom of the Holy Spirit." This third kingdom (which the Nazis translated as the "Third Reich") was supposed to be actualized in the perfect world of the end of days, and as the Nazis came to power in the last century of the millenium, Hitler predicted that the Nazis' "Third Reich" would continue on for a thousand years.

So, it really was just a German thing.