Doubts part II

[jordanianprincess 0]

Right. Not saying that the elaborate scams don't happen. We've seen it right here on VJ with a MENA man.

But I do think some men try to convince themselves of love because it makes their lives a lot easier. Really not a whole lot different than what some women do IMHO.

The difference is when there is some benefit other than a successful marriage to be gained. We may all overlook things in hope of a happy ending, but that is different that realizing you can/will walk away once you have gained a certain benefit, in this case a GC.

I don't know. People can be very persuasive when it comes to convincing themselves of things. Have you ever watched the TV show The Bachelor? I know it sounds silly, but I think these situations are highly analogous. A bunch of women who have really convinced themselves that they are in love with this man. And I'm sure each one of them would say that it's because of his character and not his bank account. Some of them are lying, but some of them I believe have really convinced themselves of it.

Perfect example

[Bosco 1]

I don't know. People can be very persuasive when it comes to convincing themselves of things. Have you ever watched the TV show The Bachelor? I know it sounds silly, but I think these situations are highly analogous. A bunch of women who have really convinced themselves that they are in love with this man. And I'm sure each one of them would say that it's because of his character and not his bank account. Some of them are lying, but some of them I believe have really convinced themselves of it.

In the Bachelor, the competitiveness also becomes a factor, which may also be the case with the men. The first one of their group of friends to escape.

But frankly, I don't really buy this theory. I think it makes us all feel better to think they are not that ill intentioned but I think many are. They refer to their wives as "their papers", families make jokes about women in front of them since they don't understand the language, they treat them absolutely differently than they would ever treat a peer from their own culture.

I have heard how some of these guys talk about their wives behind their backs and it isn't pretty.

[sarah and hicham 3]

I'm trying to use "Flavor of Love" as an example here but I just can't seem to find anything constructive that came out of that show other than extreme entertainment.

Shucks!

well maybe I can say something... those girls were tryign to boost their careers in singing or acting or modeling and were also "in love" with flavor. I think I would die if I even got within 3 feet of him. Gross!

Edited October 25, 2006 by sarah and hicham

[jordanianprincess 0]

I don't know. People can be very persuasive when it comes to convincing themselves of things. Have you ever watched the TV show The Bachelor? I know it sounds silly, but I think these situations are highly analogous. A bunch of women who have really convinced themselves that they are in love with this man. And I'm sure each one of them would say that it's because of his character and not his bank account. Some of them are lying, but some of them I believe have really convinced themselves of it.

In the Bachelor, the competitiveness also becomes a factor, which may also be the case with the men. The first one of their group of friends to escape.

But frankly, I don't really buy this theory. I think it makes us all feel better to think they are not that ill intentioned but I think many are. They refer to their wives as "their papers", families make jokes about women in front of them since they don't understand the language, they treat them absolutely differently than they would ever treat a peer from their own culture.

I have heard how some of these guys talk about their wives behind their backs and it isn't pretty.

Also true. I have seen this first hand.

[Henia 11]

Snaps another MENA cat fight started...snaps...I am not even going to read this post'...afraid to...

[sarah and hicham 3]

Snaps another MENA cat fight started...snaps...I am not even going to read this post'...afraid to...

no one if fighting here! Seriously we are having a big kid discussion and I'm glad people are sharing ther opinions. I don't see anyone offended or fighting here.

[Veiled Princess 1]

Snaps another MENA cat fight started...snaps...I am not even going to read this post'...afraid to...

NO one's fighting... hard to believe I know

[jordanianprincess 0]

Snaps another MENA cat fight started...snaps...I am not even going to read this post'...afraid to...

No cat fight in here at all. Just a discussion which everyone seems to be enjoying.

[Jenn! 918]

I don't know. People can be very persuasive when it comes to convincing themselves of things. Have you ever watched the TV show The Bachelor? I know it sounds silly, but I think these situations are highly analogous. A bunch of women who have really convinced themselves that they are in love with this man. And I'm sure each one of them would say that it's because of his character and not his bank account. Some of them are lying, but some of them I believe have really convinced themselves of it.

In the Bachelor, the competitiveness also becomes a factor, which may also be the case with the men. The first one of their group of friends to escape.

But frankly, I don't really buy this theory. I think it makes us all feel better to think they are not that ill intentioned but I think many are. They refer to their wives as "their papers", families make jokes about women in front of them since they don't understand the language, they treat them absolutely differently than they would ever treat a peer from their own culture.

I have heard how some of these guys talk about their wives behind their backs and it isn't pretty.

I'm not saying that there is no such fraud of the type that you've indicated, just that not ALL fraud is like that IMO.

I know of Moroccan men who have had serious doubts about their new wives after they realize that U.S. isn't all that they may have hoped. Don't you think that it's possible that dreams of America can subconsciously affect judgement just as much as they can overtly?

[Bosco 1]

I don't know. People can be very persuasive when it comes to convincing themselves of things. Have you ever watched the TV show The Bachelor? I know it sounds silly, but I think these situations are highly analogous. A bunch of women who have really convinced themselves that they are in love with this man. And I'm sure each one of them would say that it's because of his character and not his bank account. Some of them are lying, but some of them I believe have really convinced themselves of it.

In the Bachelor, the competitiveness also becomes a factor, which may also be the case with the men. The first one of their group of friends to escape.

But frankly, I don't really buy this theory. I think it makes us all feel better to think they are not that ill intentioned but I think many are. They refer to their wives as "their papers", families make jokes about women in front of them since they don't understand the language, they treat them absolutely differently than they would ever treat a peer from their own culture.

I have heard how some of these guys talk about their wives behind their backs and it isn't pretty.

I'm not saying that there is no such fraud of the type that you've indicated, just that not ALL fraud is like that IMO.

I know of Moroccan men who have had serious doubts about their new wives after they realize that U.S. isn't all that they may have hoped. Don't you think that it's possible that dreams of America can subconsciously affect judgement just as much as they can overtly?

Yes I do. I think dreams of money can make a marriage with a woman they would normally not considerable seem more doable, but I also think *most* (not all) of these guys have talked to other guys who have gone to Europe, USA and Canada on marriage visas and know the drill. They are willing to take the gamble because they will get something out of it either way.

[Together4ever 1]

Isn't the premise of all marriage to be mutually beneficial?

[sarah and hicham 3]

What are some of the things that make you question sincerity and intentions? We don't have to give specific examples. (besides the basic DOS guidelines)

For me one of the major red flags I see is when I see the same pattern in different people. Same things are said, almost like a script. I get really concered when I see that.

I still think a very large age difference is suspicious for men from ME/NA countries.... however I don't really know what it's like because Hicham and I are both young and have a very small age gap.

I agree with you it's like some men have a mental list of things they have to remember to say to the woman in order for her to not be doubtful and it is like a script. It can be overkill big time especially if they are saying over and over again how they just dont' want to leave their family but they will do whatever needs to be done to be with their wife.

[Jenn! 918]

Isn't the premise of all marriage to be mutually beneficial?

Yes, but I'd argue there's a big difference between choosing a partner based on what they might be able to provide by virtue of their character and their hard work and what their government may be able to provide you.

[sarah and hicham 3]

Isn't the premise of all marriage to be mutually beneficial?

Yes, but I'd argue there's a big difference between choosing a partner based on what they might be able to provide by virtue of their character and their hard work and what their government may be able to provide you.

exactly... if you mean financially beneficial then no, sowy.

[jordanianprincess 0]

I don't know. People can be very persuasive when it comes to convincing themselves of things. Have you ever watched the TV show The Bachelor? I know it sounds silly, but I think these situations are highly analogous. A bunch of women who have really convinced themselves that they are in love with this man. And I'm sure each one of them would say that it's because of his character and not his bank account. Some of them are lying, but some of them I believe have really convinced themselves of it.

In the Bachelor, the competitiveness also becomes a factor, which may also be the case with the men. The first one of their group of friends to escape.

But frankly, I don't really buy this theory. I think it makes us all feel better to think they are not that ill intentioned but I think many are. They refer to their wives as "their papers", families make jokes about women in front of them since they don't understand the language, they treat them absolutely differently than they would ever treat a peer from their own culture.

I have heard how some of these guys talk about their wives behind their backs and it isn't pretty.

I'm not saying that there is no such fraud of the type that you've indicated, just that not ALL fraud is like that IMO.

I know of Moroccan men who have had serious doubts about their new wives after they realize that U.S. isn't all that they may have hoped. Don't you think that it's possible that dreams of America can subconsciously affect judgement just as much as they can overtly?

I think dreams and misconceptions of America are key here. What happens is the people there that have been to America come back and rant and rave about how great it is here. The only thing they don't understand is that vacationing and living are 2 completly different things. I had a great time in Jordan because I was vacationing and I had lots of money to spend and people spoiled me. It would not be the same to live there.

At least in MENA people will sit for hours and talk about the USA. This influences alot of people to want to get out of their countries and live a different life. One that doesnt consist of home, work, and frequent family visits with nothing else to do besides hang out at a cafe every so often. Life can be boring there. Everyone is expected to get married and start the same pattern over and over. I'm not saying everyone is that way but some guys just dont want to live that cookie cutter lifestyle that has been predetermined for them. Some guys will get out at any cost.

Isn't the premise of all marriage to be mutually beneficial?

Beneficial in what way?