Doubts part II

[Bosco 1]

If "shacking up" is bad, then I don't wanna be good. I know there are those who disapprove, but I wouldn't have had it any other way.

The irony is that most people assume this gives them a better chancing at a successful marriage. However, studies tend to show the opposite, with couples that cohabitated prior to marriage having higher rates of divorce. (Researchers tend to think is relates to other attitudes within the couple than the cohabitiation itself, i.e. - the couple may have overall more relaxed attitudes toward marriage and are less likely to stay in a bad one, the inertia theory, etc.)

[Jenn! 918]

However, I know it can work - I have seen it work, and I am sure it will work again. I just cannot see it ever working for me. Like Jenn said, for those of us who haven't experienced it, it is hard to imagine. And, I still cannot forget the sheer number of Moroccan men I saw in cyber cafes practicing their love poems, primping for the web cams and then trying to pick me up after it was all over.

Exactly.

One thing I'm curious about - for those of you who did meet online.... Have you discussed with your SO the circumstances behind your online meeting? How did you distinguish the motives of your own SO who may have been in the cyber cafe with lots of others who were specifically looking for American women?

I don't know why this would be any different than making this distinction having met in person. Guys whose motivation is fraud are not only in the cybers, and they will meet up with tourists or people working abroad, or realize their student visas are running out and find someone to marry too.

Out of the relationships I am aware of that ended in fraud, more had met in person than online. Jenprincess comes to mind, and they lived together. I know a few other non-VJ people. I think Honeyblonde met her first husband in person as well.

Can I not ask a question? I was not implying anything by it, even though it seems many would like to think that I am. It is not true that there is an abundance of Moroccan men using the internet as a way to defraud? Sure there are other ways as well, but *I* was curious about this way.

I know how things work when people meet in person, because that's how I did it. I do not know how things work when people meet online, because I didn't. Simple as that.

If "shacking up" is bad, then I don't wanna be good. I know there are those who disapprove, but I wouldn't have had it any other way.

The irony is that most people assume this gives them a better chancing at a successful marriage. However, studies tend to show the opposite, with couples that cohabitated prior to marriage having higher rates of divorce. (Researchers tend to think is relates to other attitudes within the couple than the cohabitiation itself, i.e. - the couple may have overall more relaxed attitudes toward marriage and are less likely to stay in a bad one, the inertia theory, etc.)

Again, not assuming anything here. I said it worked for *me*.

Edited October 27, 2006 by jenn3539

[Veiled Princess 1]

Ok let's see...you don't want to be on the cheerleading thread or give any details about your immigration process and you're asking me why should I post if I don't want to expand on it? Why are you even on VJ then if you don't care to even share your immigration process with others... it seems like all you do on here is argue with people and post a lot in OT. Why do you post so much here then?

None of your business. I am involved in a visa journey and I have a right to be here. If I want to keep my info private because of people threatening me that's my business.

Isn't your husband here? Why are YOU here so much?

[Bosco 1]

However, I know it can work - I have seen it work, and I am sure it will work again. I just cannot see it ever working for me. Like Jenn said, for those of us who haven't experienced it, it is hard to imagine. And, I still cannot forget the sheer number of Moroccan men I saw in cyber cafes practicing their love poems, primping for the web cams and then trying to pick me up after it was all over.

Exactly.

One thing I'm curious about - for those of you who did meet online.... Have you discussed with your SO the circumstances behind your online meeting? How did you distinguish the motives of your own SO who may have been in the cyber cafe with lots of others who were specifically looking for American women?

I don't know why this would be any different than making this distinction having met in person. Guys whose motivation is fraud are not only in the cybers, and they will meet up with tourists or people working abroad, or realize their student visas are running out and find someone to marry too.

Out of the relationships I am aware of that ended in fraud, more had met in person than online. Jenprincess comes to mind, and they lived together. I know a few other non-VJ people. I think Honeyblonde met her first husband in person as well.

Can I not ask a question? I was not implying anything by it, even though it seems many would like to think that I am. It is not true that there is an abundance of Moroccan men using the internet as a way to defraud? Sure there are other ways as well, but *I* was curious about this way.

I know how things work when people meet in person, because that's how I did it. I do not know how things work when people meet online, because I didn't. Simple as that.

Jenn,

I don't think they are "using the internet" as much as they are using any means available to them. For some, this may only be the internet (and the internet may be the easiest). For some, it could be the internet and the women they run into within their country as tourists/workers. For others, who are outside of Morocco on student visas, it could be their classmates or dating websites where they could meet women within their community.

So, I think in determining fraud, it really doesn't matter how you met. For the most part you are going on your gut instinct or trying to look for cues that would indicate something isn't right.

Rebecca

[Jenn! 918]

So, I think in determining fraud, it really doesn't matter how you met. For the most part you are going on your gut instinct or trying to look for cues that would indicate something isn't right.

Rebecca

I totally understand that. But my question relates more to - how does one look for these cues when using the internet as a medium. I understand how one does it face-to-face. But I really am interested, *and* I think it would be useful to other readers perhaps, about the dynamics of going through this when using the internet, where you often can't see facial expressions or hear the tone of voice.

ETA: Liz got into it when describing how her relationship with Abdel began. That's what I mean. How do you know who to take seriously or not. I doubt that it's always as cut and dried as, "Ignore men who straight out ask you if you can get them a visa."

Edited October 27, 2006 by jenn3539

[Bosco 1]

So, I think in determining fraud, it really doesn't matter how you met. For the most part you are going on your gut instinct or trying to look for cues that would indicate something isn't right.

Rebecca

I totally understand that. But my question relates more to - how does one look for these cues when using the internet as a medium. I understand how one does it face-to-face. But I really am interested, *and* I think it would be useful to other readers perhaps, about the dynamics of going through this when using the internet, where you often can't see facial expressions or hear the tone of voice.

I personally don't think these distinctions matter, such as tone of voice or facial expressions in determing fraud. Someone who is going to do this is putting on the charm, in person or over the net (again, as evidenced by some of the cases we know). Some may argue it is easier in person because you can do it with the physical. I tend to look at more concrete things like whether or not he is affording her the respect he would afford a woman of his own culture, how the family receives her (if they even meet), etc

[Bosco 1]

ETA: Liz got into it when describing how her relationship with Abdel began. That's what I mean. How do you know who to take seriously or not. I doubt that it's always as cut and dried as, "Ignore men who straight out ask you if you can get them a visa."

This would again not be very different in meeting someone in person. If the guy is telling you how much he loves you after two weeks or your conversations consist of "I love yous", there is little difference whether this is the case online or in person.

[Jenn! 918]

ETA: Liz got into it when describing how her relationship with Abdel began. That's what I mean. How do you know who to take seriously or not. I doubt that it's always as cut and dried as, "Ignore men who straight out ask you if you can get them a visa."

This would again not be very different in meeting someone in person. If the guy is telling you how much he loves you after two weeks or your conversations consist of "I love yous", there is little difference whether this is the case online or in person.

Ok, fine. I give up.

[Veiled Princess 1]

I personally don't think these distinctions matter, such as tone of voice or facial expressions in determing fraud. Someone who is going to do this is putting on the charm, in person or over the net (again, as evidenced by some of the cases we know). Some may argue it is easier in person because you can do it with the physical. I tend to look at more concrete things like whether or not he is affording her the respect he would afford a woman of his own culture, how the family receives her (if they even meet), etc

This is true... people can act in person better than over the internet IMO because IRL you've got the emotional aspect caught up in it.

When you're 7000 miles apart, seperated by oceans and computer screens, there is less temptation to fall into the physical attraction trap and you have a chance to really get to know a person on an intellectual level. It's more about talking and finding out what ambitions/dreams/beliefs the other person has than worrying about when's the right time to hold hands or for the first kiss and other physical acts.

Is it possible for the person on the other side to just type what they think you want to see? Sure. Does it happen? I'm sure.

I've met a lot of people online... my husband being the most important... some have had less than honorable intentions and others have turned out to be the best friends a person could ask for.

I think you take the same types of precautions in an online relationship (whether it be romantic or platonic) that you would in any relationship.

[Ban Hammer 13,283]

I didn't meet my husband in a chat room. I hate those! Filled with Pervs like Charles.

i'm offended!

[Veiled Princess 1]

I didn't meet my husband in a chat room. I hate those! Filled with Pervs like Charles.

i'm offended!

I didn't even see that

I'm not much into chat rooms myself but I did meet my husband in one. It was a religious room though... not like a dating room or anything.

[Caladan 19]

deeshla hit the nail on the head. There is something between chastity belt and orgy, and most relationships are somewhere in the middle, and *all* of them change once the person is married.

How couldn't it? To take one little thing, our relationship won't be defined by visits any more. It won't be fun mini-vacations, but life where we're both working.

[morocco4ever 63]

I didn't meet my husband in a chat room. I hate those! Filled with Pervs like Charles.

i'm offended!

Charles, sweety...what took you so long?

[Veiled Princess 1]

deeshla hit the nail on the head. There is something between chastity belt and orgy, and most relationships are somewhere in the middle, and *all* of them change once the person is married.

How couldn't it? To take one little thing, our relationship won't be defined by visits any more. It won't be fun mini-vacations, but life where we're both working.

Most relationships change over time regardless. I don't think it constitutes a sham marriage though. You can live with someone for 10 years and still not really know them.

[chris4336 3]

I personally don't think these distinctions matter, such as tone of voice or facial expressions in determing fraud. Someone who is going to do this is putting on the charm, in person or over the net (again, as evidenced by some of the cases we know). Some may argue it is easier in person because you can do it with the physical. I tend to look at more concrete things like whether or not he is affording her the respect he would afford a woman of his own culture, how the family receives her (if they even meet), etc

I agree completly with this statement. When my fiancee and I were just dating he never really minding public displays of affection, guys giving me catcalls on the street, etc (we met in Spain). However, as we became more serious, these things changed, and he explained to me that he told me that people respecting his fiancee is very important to him. I know that he would never accept men oogling his sisters on the street, and I know that he would never accept this for me either. My fiancee, and I think most MENA men, take respect of the women in their lives very seriously, so I think this is probably a good thing to look for.