Doubts part II

[UmmSqueakster 54]

I in no way wanted to imply that the inactive members on the cheerleading thread were being used for a greencard. We just have a large number of people going through the ME/NA, and I wonder how many are fraud cases.

I just wonder what happens to members who disappear from this board. I hope that they're all doing well in life

[MHandMB 0]

I think a lot of instances, it's similar to the old adage "it's just as easy to fall in love with a rich man as it is to fall in love with a poor man." Maybe in a lot of cases, it's not a case of using someone for a greencard, but they might think "hey, I'm single, still looking for Ms./Mr. Right. Why not search for someone in the U.S.? " This way, they can do 2 things at once: find the husband/wife they're looking for, and ensure more opportunities for them in the future.

As for my doubts on certain relationships: I've definitely had my doubts about some people on VJ, but I would never say anything to them about it because I don't know them, and it's none of my business. If it was happening to a good friend, I would definitely tell them if I had substantial misgivings, but I would do it delicately.

I don't know if anyone has ever wondered about their being fraud in my relationship. I think the biggest difficulty we've had about others' opinions is their comments on Amed's religion (I grew up Southern Baptist, and most of my family is from the rural south and hasn't been exposed to a lot of muslims). However, deep down, I know that Amed had it way better in France than he has it here at the moment, and he's sacrificed a lot to be here with me, so I haven't had doubts about his intentions.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Meeting online does carry a certain stigma, even as the practice grows. My husband, whom I met online, is a very simple, open guy and a terrible liar. What you see is what you get, and he says exactly what he feels, good or bad. I've heard it all straight from the horse's mouth. I've watched him change from a naive kid of 26 into a mature man of 32, mostly on cam. I know how he thinks and reacts to things because for the most part, all we have between us are words, sweet and sour, to shape our feelings. When we fight like hellcats, there is no make up sex. When we feel passionate, there are no hearts and flowers. It's all virtual. Online, it's far more difficult to mask your motives than many may believe; the contradictions are in writing. But, then, I'm an analytical type who doesn't let much slide by.

In the US, the norm is dating and physical intimacy soon after meeting, leading to a certain intensity and escalation of feelings that may not jibe with the facts. So, I'm not surprised that alterior motives are attributed to men whose attention can be kept by women who engage them for months or years without getting any real sexual satisfaction out of it. It's not "normal" by western standards. But, you do get to know someone from the inside out this way because it's not their physical closeness that provides the allure for you, it's something more intangible that maintains the attraction.

[Together4ever 1]

I would like to say I can agree with much of what you said, szsz. Moh and I have had a relationship for 3 years now and I know the level of sacrifice he makes for me. It disappoints me a bit that people are so fast to pull a negative judgement with people who have met and maintained a long distance relationship online. I think there are just as many legitimate relationships this way as their are frauds. This type of relationship does afford a couple to concentrate more on their emotional and intellectual relationship and that's what really counts years down the road. You have to learn to communicate or the LDR will crumble pretty fast.

[ya falaha! 0]

I have to say I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Here in the states I believe a lot of couples get all hot and heavy then the relationship dies out prematurely. I believe a lot of it has to do with the rush on a physical relationship. If you meet online..whether it's another country or another state...and you develop this relationship without any physicality it tends to be stronger long term. When you spend months if not years just talking and sharing your thoughts, ideas, feelings, etc. you really get to know each other. Of course it helps when both parties are honest.

Meeting online does carry a certain stigma, even as the practice grows. My husband, whom I met online, is a very simple, open guy and a terrible liar. What you see is what you get, and he says exactly what he feels, good or bad. I've heard it all straight from the horse's mouth. I've watched him change from a naive kid of 26 into a mature man of 32, mostly on cam. I know how he thinks and reacts to things because for the most part, all we have between us are words, sweet and sour, to shape our feelings. When we fight like hellcats, there is no make up sex. When we feel passionate, there are no hearts and flowers. It's all virtual. Online, it's far more difficult to mask your motives than many may believe; the contradictions are in writing. But, then, I'm an analytical type who doesn't let much slide by.

In the US, the norm is dating and physical intimacy soon after meeting, leading to a certain intensity and escalation of feelings that may not jibe with the facts. So, I'm not surprised that alterior motives are attributed to men whose attention can be kept by women who engage them for months or years without getting any real sexual satisfaction out of it. It's not "normal" by western standards. But, you do get to know someone from the inside out this way because it's not their physical closeness that provides the allure for you, it's something more intangible that maintains the attraction.

[morocco4ever 63]

There are ways to spot if you are in a fraud relationship. The key is to give them lots of rope. If it is fraud they will hang themselves.

I told my husband right from the start to go out with friends, go have fun, we don't need to talk everynight. Now what man that is using you for a greencard will jump at the opportunity! They will. Its so easy for them. They say "sweetheart, I am tired now, I am going to bed early". Then off they go!

My husband knows a man that married a woman from Canada. He tells her that he is going to sleep, then he pauses the cam and takes off. I don't know if it is a fraud marriage or if he is just a louse...who knows for sure, but that would be a big red flag for me, and I am not stupid enough to believe that my husband sleeps in one position, cuz he doesn't.

Its all in ourselves to discover the truth behind our relationships. If you suspect anything, don't confront them, that just puts up their antennas to be more cautious. Don't take the words at face value, learn to read between the lines. Do this long before you have made any commitments. Then once you decide its right, stand by your decision no matter what anyone says. There are always going to be people who think your relationship is fraud, and it usually comes from people who don't even know your SO. Take charge of your own life, and be true to yourself, the rest will follow.

[Fandango 1,439]

I told my husband right from the start to go out with friends, go have fun, we don't need to talk everynight. Now what man that is using you for a greencard will jump at the opportunity! They will. Its so easy for them. They say "sweetheart, I am tired now, I am going to bed early". Then off they go!

I would say there are many who would keep the deception going to realize they are being 'tested'.....mind you, I am NOT referring to your particular relationship....but this lil test alone I don't think would be a deciding factor.

[Ta Ta 1]

What is wrong with both....to have a better live in the US AND look for someone that is truly

a soulmate.

If I wanted to better myself in another country and find my true love at the same time

then my motives would be genuine.

If I would deceive and lie to advance myself then of course it is fraud, but just because

someone wants to start over in the US does not mean they are using a woman for a GC.

I am German born and raised. I met a USC and we were married for 24 years.

I am now a USC. Marriages fall apart wether they are married for a short or long time.

They fall apart for many different reasons, so let us not assume that each time a couple

divorces that it must be because of the GC. There are too many variables involved.

My SO met someone before me from the US but after a while realized he could not build a future

with her, even though she wanted him. He just realized she was not his soul mate.

So he continued his quest for love when he could have easily just chosen her or 'anyone'.

Men are more selective than we give them credit for and the few that do defraud

are in my opinion in the minority. The foreign men or woman for the most part want

to find their true love and build a meaningful future together for a life time.

The reasons for no loger posting on VJ could be many.

Time separated in this crazy process also causes some to fall by the wayside and give up.

When the couple is finally together they are busy raising a family and no longer

choose to post here.

Let us not assume they didn't make it and that the reason was fraud.

Everything takes it's course and shows it's true colors in the end.

We can't predict the future and in the meantime must trust with common sense.

Having said that ....here is the dark side:

Do I know someone that is being defrauded ? Yes. Do I want to tell her ? Yes.

But so far I have not. She is not a close friend.

She met a "white guy" online and they talked for several months. Goes to visit him in his country. Alas, at the airport

there is no "white guy" around but a black guy calling her name. She asked : where is

he....are you here to pick me up ? He said I am the one you have been talking to.

She said why have you lied to me. His response was: if you knew I was black

would you have come here to meet me ?

She was very upset and wanted to go home on the next plane.

What did she do ? She married the guy a few days later.

Will this marriage work ? Unlikely. His motive was to defraud her

with a photo of a white man and he is black. I could not believe that she

married him ! I saw a link here with photo fraud scams. It may help in

giving her a reality check. Anyone has it ?

The problem is that I heard this from a relative of hers and not directly

from her so I feel I can't say anything.

She emails me sometimes about how long this process is and that he has

a hard time with the wait. This whole thing is the most bizzare thing I have ever heard !!!!!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Some women don't listen when they're told or even when the evidence is overwhelming and indisputable. I know someone in my husband's family who is using a woman for a get-out-of-Morocco-free card. He has been clear about it with everyone in the family, but not with her. His brother has told her, his mom has told her, I tried to tell her, but he avoids bringing her around me when I'm there.

After he "married" her in a sham ceremony and was arrested for bigamy, instead of dumping him for lying about his marital status and putting her thru the ringer, she sent him thousands of dollars to pay for a divorce and to buy a work contract in her country, which he spends entertaining other women and on himself. She sends him lavish gifts, which he sells for the cash. AND he's still married! I don't think she wants to know that either.

When he calls her his wife, I tell him to just shut up, I don't want to hear it. We're all disgusted, but we have done our best to get it thru her head that she is being used, but it does no good. I used to feel sorry for her, but I see now that, for whatever reason, she is hardcore blind "in love" determined to be taken for a ride.

I will tell, but some you cannot save from themselves.

Edited October 26, 2006 by szsz

[ya falaha! 0]

That is bizarre! She went to meet a guy she only saw a photo of? She didn't see him on webcam at least? And to marry someone after they obviously pulled photo fraud aka tricky pic on her? Not in my world!

[Fandango 1,439]

What is wrong with both....to have a better live in the US AND look for someone that is truly

a soulmate.

If I wanted to better myself in another country and find my true love at the same time

then my motives would be genuine.

The problem is, they don't always come hand in hand.

On yahoo, when my prof was public, I'd get msgs from strangers all the time....barely mucking thru a sentence in english, and all they have to go on is my nick, which is fairly beige. No pic, no nothing, but messages like 'you have beautiful name and soul'

like #######? gimme a break

[morocco4ever 63]

What is wrong with both....to have a better live in the US AND look for someone that is truly

a soulmate.

If I wanted to better myself in another country and find my true love at the same time

then my motives would be genuine.

If I would deceive and lie to advance myself then of course it is fraud, but just because

someone wants to start over in the US does not mean they are using a woman for a GC.

I am German born and raised. I met a USC and we were married for 24 years.

I am now a USC. Marriages fall apart wether they are married for a short or long time.

They fall apart for many different reasons, so let us not assume that each time a couple

divorces that it must be because of the GC. There are too many variables involved.

My SO met someone before me from the US but after a while realized he could not build a future

with her, even though she wanted him. He just realized she was not his soul mate.

So he continued his quest for love when he could have easily just chosen her or 'anyone'.

Men are more selective than we give them credit for and the few that do defraud

are in my opinion in the minority. The foreign men or woman for the most part want

to find their true love and build a meaningful future together for a life time.

The reasons for no loger posting on VJ could be many.

Time separated in this crazy process also causes some to fall by the wayside and give up.

When the couple is finally together they are busy raising a family and no longer

choose to post here.

Let us not assume they didn't make it and that the reason was fraud.

Everything takes it's course and shows it's true colors in the end.

We can't predict the future and in the meantime must trust with common sense.

Having said that ....here is the dark side:

Do I know someone that is being defrauded ? Yes. Do I want to tell her ? Yes.

But so far I have not. She is not a close friend.

She met a "white guy" online and they talked for several months. Goes to visit him in his country. Alas, at the airport

there is no "white guy" around but a black guy calling her name. She asked : where is

he....are you here to pick me up ? He said I am the one you have been talking to.

She said why have you lied to me. His response was: if you knew I was black

would you have come here to meet me ?

She was very upset and wanted to go home on the next plane.

What did she do ? She married the guy a few days later.

Will this marriage work ? Unlikely. His motive was to defraud her

with a photo of a white man and he is black. I could not believe that she

married him ! I saw a link here with photo fraud scams. It may help in

giving her a reality check. Anyone has it ?

The problem is that I heard this from a relative of hers and not directly

from her so I feel I can't say anything.

She emails me sometimes about how long this process is and that he has

a hard time with the wait. This whole thing is the most bizzare thing I have ever heard !!!!!

Wow!! All I can say is wow!

And its so true. So many people believe what they want to believe in spite of what is the truth. What can we do about it though? I will only tell someone extremely close to me, and only once. After that they are on their own. I lost a friend of twenty plus years over it once.

What is wrong with both....to have a better live in the US AND look for someone that is truly

a soulmate.

If I wanted to better myself in another country and find my true love at the same time

then my motives would be genuine.

The problem is, they don't always come hand in hand.

On yahoo, when my prof was public, I'd get msgs from strangers all the time....barely mucking thru a sentence in english, and all they have to go on is my nick, which is fairly beige. No pic, no nothing, but messages like 'you have beautiful name and soul'

like #######? gimme a break

I know for a fact this is true, happened to me a lot!

[deeshla 0]

Meeting online does carry a certain stigma, even as the practice grows. My husband, whom I met online, is a very simple, open guy and a terrible liar. What you see is what you get, and he says exactly what he feels, good or bad. I've heard it all straight from the horse's mouth. I've watched him change from a naive kid of 26 into a mature man of 32, mostly on cam. I know how he thinks and reacts to things because for the most part, all we have between us are words, sweet and sour, to shape our feelings. When we fight like hellcats, there is no make up sex. When we feel passionate, there are no hearts and flowers. It's all virtual. Online, it's far more difficult to mask your motives than many may believe; the contradictions are in writing. But, then, I'm an analytical type who doesn't let much slide by.

In the US, the norm is dating and physical intimacy soon after meeting, leading to a certain intensity and escalation of feelings that may not jibe with the facts. So, I'm not surprised that alterior motives are attributed to men whose attention can be kept by women who engage them for months or years without getting any real sexual satisfaction out of it. It's not "normal" by western standards. But, you do get to know someone from the inside out this way because it's not their physical closeness that provides the allure for you, it's something more intangible that maintains the attraction.

Thing is, that "certain intensity and escalation of feeling" that comes with physical proximity (whether that involves actual sex or not) for many of us is the "facts." Tangible atraction is mingled with intangible attraction. It is not something to mislead, but the true expression of attraction becoming something more intense, deeper and more substantial. For me, this cannot be had over the internet. It all goes together for me -- the words and the touches, the trial and error of togetherness. The awkward silences or overwhelming physical sensastions. That is me. I am starting to understand that other people can get all they need from just words, at least in the beginning. This is something like a "literary romance" - a concept I used to hold dear, no sexual involvement, etc. But for me, I just cannot sustain this naturally.

Also, you talk about men whose attention can be kept from women "without getting any real sexual satisfaction" for months, years, etc. While this may be true in your case, don't be naive enough to think this is normal. Those men are getting sexual satisfaction (if we are talking about Morocco) elsewhere, believe me. Yes, it is not "normal" by Western standards, but it is not "normal" but any standards! Let's admit that internet dating is a novel concept and a new phenomenon - and I think worthy of long-term study. I am, frankly, amazed by it.

I also don't agree that you are getting just facts from an internet relationship -- words that represent the "true story." Words can be invented just a easily as anything else, maybe more so. Those few thousand miles sure do put a nice buffer between Romeo and Juliet. I am not saying this is the case with you, szsz, just that I don't think it is as simple as what you presented above.

However, I know it can work - I have seen it work, and I am sure it will work again. I just cannot see it ever working for me. Like Jenn said, for those of us who haven't experienced it, it is hard to imagine. And, I still cannot forget the sheer number of Moroccan men I saw in cyber cafes practicing their love poems, primping for the web cams and then trying to pick me up after it was all over.

[Veiled Princess 1]

We started talking to each other about God and it just went from there but is always centered around praising Allah. I have a hard time thinking that any relationship that is centered on God would fail but then

[morocco4ever 63]

We started talking to each other about God and it just went from there but is always centered around praising Allah. I have a hard time thinking that any relationship that is centered on God would fail but then

If it is truly centered on God, and both parties uphold their beliefs, it shouldn't fail. When it fails is because either it was just another front for them, or they loose sight later.