Chevy isn’t losing $49,000 on every Volt it sells, for God’s sake

[james&olya 1,121]

so, i didn't say anything that wasn't true. i stated a couple facts & asked him to answer his question himself. now i'll ask you the same question. 3 actually. is our military full of the best & brightest?...before you answer or get offended. notice the word full and think about some of the people you met while in the service. did they all fit in the 'best & brightest' category? how many out of the not bunch were ranked higher than yourself?

I was an officer in USAF. I was quite impressed by the quality of those I served with, officer and enlisted.

I did have one CO that was a real jerk! Part of why I decided against a career in the military!

[Ready to do it 101]

I would have to agree with Smoke on this one. I'm in my early-mid 40's and the only folks I saw joining the military were drop-outs. I'm glad the military exists as it gives the drop-outs the opportunity to earn an education, and quite frankly the majority of the folks that are in the military would probably be unemployed right now if there was no military as the ones that join aren't the sharpest pencils in the box.

The part I do not like about the military is the idea that it is ok to go kill a bunch of people in a foreign nation... and for what? Because our government for generations has brainwashed these kids and the general public into believing it's ok to go kill people since the government says it is ok? I'm not drinking the kool-aid. If someone kills someone, they are a murderer, there is no getting around it. So, ultimately the military does attract the less-educated and more desperate folks that just don't have any other options. As Patriot has mentioned, not all that have joined have this same make-up, but at the end of the day, they are taught to kill, so I'll leave it at that and let the man upstairs judge them.

so, i didn't say anything that wasn't true. i stated a couple facts & asked him to answer his question himself. now i'll ask you the same question. 3 actually. is our military full of the best & brightest?...before you answer or get offended. notice the word full and think about some of the people you met while in the service. did they all fit in the 'best & brightest' category? how many out of the not bunch were ranked higher than yourself?

Edited September 13, 2012 by Ready to do it

[james&olya 1,121]

I would have to agree with Smoke on this one. I'm in my early-mid 40's and the only folks I saw joining the military were drop-outs. I'm glad the military exists as it gives the drop-outs the opportunity to earn an education, and quite frankly the majority of the folks that are in the military would probably be unemployed right now if there was no military as the ones that join aren't the sharpest pencils in the box.

The part I do not like about the military is the idea that it is ok to go kill a bunch of people in a foreign nation... and for what? Because our government for generations has brainwashed these kids and the general public into believing it's ok to go kill people since the government says it is ok? I'm not drinking the kool-aid. If someone kills someone, they are a murderer, there is no getting around it. So, ultimately the military does attract the less-educated and more desperate folks that just don't have any other options. As Patriot has mentioned, not all that have joined have this same make-up, but at the end of the day, they are taught to kill, so I'll leave it at that and let the man upstairs judge them.

You have a very different view of our military than I do. Granted, I was Air Force. I heard that the Army and Marines would take a lower level of recruit than the USAF.

What I really disagree with are the statements about it being OK to kill and all killing being murder. Very few in the military want to kill anyone. Nobody is taught that in training. But if combat is decided on by the civilian leadership than killing may be required. It is not murder. Murder is a crime and I find it outrageous to accuse our military members of being criminals. Are there 'bad apples'? Yes, but generally the military deals harshly with them. I am a proud liberal. I respect pacifists to a point but I find your attitudes repugnant! On this I will join with conservatives in saying that our freedom has been paid for with the blood and sacrifice of our military. I disagree with some of the wars Washington has engaged in but that does not diminish the nobility of service of those in our military. You have a right to say what you want but I hope you realize that right was secured by bloodshed!

[Ready to do it 101]

I think the dedication many folks put into thier lives to serve in the military is honorable from the standpoint of they believe in something and they believe what they are doing is right. That's what life is about. Doing what you beleive in, dedicating yourself to something, and doing it proudly. It's just not for me, and I don't understand how one can say that it is not a crime. In who's eyes? I follow the laws our government gives us, but just because a government wants to break God's laws doesn't mean it is not a crime.

I do hear all the time where people say that our freedom was paid with bloodshed. How so? Maybe I am just misinformed. I'd be more than willing to hear your argument on how so. The Civil War? Santa Ana's Mexican troops? I don't concern myself with past events that occurred before I was put on this earth. Who knows what life would be like or even if I would exist if it weren't for some military action somewhere. It's an unknown. Sure, maybe I could have been born in Mexico if Texas wasn't part of the US. On the otherhand maybe I would be European, Canadian, Middle-eastern... Who knows. At the end of the day, we are all humans and we should all treat one another the same way, with respect and peace.

What is a fact is no foreign country has ever attacked the US soil in my lifetime, so in my lifetime any bloodshed that has occurred cannot have anything to do with my freedom. When someone attacks the US soil and the US military is there to protect us, I will be the first in line to praise them. I support NO wars overseas, and I do not believe any war overseas has anything to do with my freedom.

By the way, I appreciate a lot of your statements. I learn a lot. That statement about the military not training to kill and that most really don't want to kill anyone. I simply did not know that. After all the death and violence we hear about overseas it almost makes me the government is just cycling kids into the military to become killing machines. I'm glad to hear from someone that obviously knows what the military is really about that my beliefs on this issue were incorrect.

You have a very different view of our military than I do. Granted, I was Air Force. I heard that the Army and Marines would take a lower level of recruit than the USAF.

What I really disagree with are the statements about it being OK to kill and all killing being murder. Very few in the military want to kill anyone. Nobody is taught that in training. But if combat is decided on by the civilian leadership than killing may be required. It is not murder. Murder is a crime and I find it outrageous to accuse our military members of being criminals. Are there 'bad apples'? Yes, but generally the military deals harshly with them. I am a proud liberal. I respect pacifists to a point but I find your attitudes repugnant! On this I will join with conservatives in saying that our freedom has been paid for with the blood and sacrifice of our military. I disagree with some of the wars Washington has engaged in but that does not diminish the nobility of service of those in our military. You have a right to say what you want but I hope you realize that right was secured by bloodshed!

Edited September 13, 2012 by Ready to do it

[james&olya 1,121]

What is a fact is no foreign country has ever attacked the US soil in my lifetime, so in my lifetime any bloodshed that has occurred cannot have anything to do with my freedom. When someone attacks the US soil and the US military is there to protect us, I will be the first in line to praise them. I support NO wars overseas, and I do not believe any war overseas has anything to do with my freedom.

Do you recall 9-11-2011? How about Pearl Harbor? Of course that was before my time and possibly yours as well. You think we have just been fortunate? You are delusional if you think our WWII involvement played no role in our freedom today. What do you suppose the outcome would have been if we had sat that one out. Especially after having been attacked?

I will agree with those who think we may be over-doing it in the amount we spend on our military.

[Ready to do it 101]

1) 9/11 was not an attack by a foreign government

2) WWII and Pearl Harbor were both before my time. I will proudly admit that I slept through high-school history class and cannot even tell you who fought in WWII. Interestingly, I have always had these views that war is just flat out bad and wrong and I never really cared to listen in history class. I was a math and science guy.

Do you recall 9-11-2011? How about Pearl Harbor? Of course that was before my time and possibly yours as well. You think we have just been fortunate? You are delusional if you think our WWII involvement played no role in our freedom today. What do you suppose the outcome would have been if we had sat that one out. Especially after having been attacked?

I will agree with those who think we may be over-doing it in the amount we spend on our military.

[james&olya 1,121]

That statement about the military not training to kill and that most really don't want to kill anyone. I simply did not know that. After all the death and violence we hear about overseas it almost makes me the government is just cycling kids into the military to become killing machines. I'm glad to hear from someone that obviously knows what the military is really about that my beliefs on this issue were incorrect.

The military does train to kill. I was assigned to a bomber base. The B-52's were equipped to carry cruise missiles with nuclear warheads and a portion of them were always ready to take off at a moments notice and perform their most deadly of missions. Not a single crew-member I ever talked with ever wanted to see the day that the orders would come for those bombers to take to the skies to perform their mission. They would have done their duty if the orders had come, make no mistake! But none of them wanted it! The rationale was deterrence. It worked then, hopefully it will continue working until we all evolve sufficiently to move beyond warfare as a means of settling disputes.

[Ready to do it 101]

If none of the military ever wanted to be given the order to use a nuclear weapon and for the most part, the majority of the US public never wants us to use a nuclear weapon what does common sense tell us? Get rid of all our nuclear weapons.

I'm serious. We should have destroyed every single nuclear weapon we had many years ago. We should have never created them in the first place. Just maybe, if we destroyed all our nuclear weapons other countries would follow in our path. Yes, I realize it is a little late for that as we have pissed off so many nations all over this earth. But, if we are all going to die due to a nuclear race anyhow, why not get rid of our nuclear weapons so at least we won't be the cause of our own demise.

By the way, I am a firm believer that 911 would have never occurred if the US wasn't so adamant about trying to police and/or protect the world. 911 was planned and executed by those who hate us (I think). The question then becomes, "Why do they hate us?" Wouldn't it make sense to start doing things to make them not hate us. The sad part about the whole situation is 911 is our own fault for being in their lands, and we still haven't learned from our mistakes.

Even the Obama administration... "We will find those responsible and bring them to justice," regarding today's bombing at our Embassy. What does, "Bring to justice mean?" The same fate as we extended to Osama Bin Laden? I'm afraid we as a country are just never going to learn that WE are the problem.

The military does train to kill. I was assigned to a bomber base. The B-52's were equipped to carry cruise missiles with nuclear warheads and a portion of them were always ready to take off at a moments notice and perform their most deadly of missions. Not a single crew-member I ever talked with ever wanted to see the day that the orders would come for those bombers to take to the skies to perform their mission. They would have done their duty if the orders had come, make no mistake! But none of them wanted it! The rationale was deterrence. It worked then, hopefully it will continue working until we all evolve sufficiently to move beyond warfare as a means of settling disputes.

[james&olya 1,121]

If none of the military ever wanted to be given the order to use a nuclear weapon and for the most part, the majority of the US public never wants us to use a nuclear weapon what does common sense tell us? Get rid of all our nuclear weapons.

I'm serious. We should have destroyed every single nuclear weapon we had many years ago. We should have never created them in the first place. Just maybe, if we destroyed all our nuclear weapons other countries would follow in our path. Yes, I realize it is a little late for that as we have pissed off so many nations all over this earth. But, if we are all going to die due to a nuclear race anyhow, why not get rid of our nuclear weapons so at least we won't be the cause of our own demise.

By the way, I am a firm believer that 911 would have never occurred if the US wasn't so adamant about trying to police and/or protect the world. 911 was planned and executed by those who hate us (I think). The question then becomes, "Why do they hate us?" Wouldn't it make sense to start doing things to make them not hate us. The sad part about the whole situation is 911 is our own fault for being in their lands, and we still haven't learned from our mistakes.

Even the Obama administration... "We will find those responsible and bring them to justice," regarding today's bombing at our Embassy. What does, "Bring to justice mean?" The same fate as we extended to Osama Bin Laden? I'm afraid we as a country are just never going to learn that WE are the problem.

Noble but naive sentiments! I disagree with you when you say 'we' as a country are the problem. You are right that we have contributed to the problem, though often with good intentions gone awry. There has been a fair bit of stupidity as well, such as the whole Iraq mess! While I don't go along with the attitude that we are God's gift to the world or that we are the best in everything I do believe that the US has been a positive force for good on this planet and that we are uniquely positioned to continue being a leader in bringing freedom, democracy, and prosperity to the world. Have we made mistakes? Of course, some very big ones. Will we make mistakes again? Without a doubt, some of them huge and possibly ones we have made before. As individual citizens, as 'patriots', it is our responsibility to do our part in contributing to the national conversation to recognize the mistakes and learn from them. It is not possible to improve as a person or a country without being humble enough to admit prior wrongs and work to do better. On this the comparison between Romney and Obama could not be more clear. Mitt is the bully who does not understand that true strength is enhanced by admitting wrongs. Obama has been articulate in acknowledging the US is not perfect without ever groveling. Just the opposite, he helps all of us hold our heads a little higher. I am proud to be an American and proud to fly the stars and stripes! The truest patriot is the progressive who aspires for his country to reach for the highest ideal but remaining mindful of what is actually realistic given the world we live in.

[Ready to do it 101]

What a fantastic post! When it comes to foreign policy, Obama has been A LOT better than anyone else in recent memory. I have traveled a lot in the last 20 years. People all over the world have often asked me, "What has happened to America and Americans?" So many spoke so negatively about our country in the late 90's through the mid 2000's. I think Obama has changed that negative attitude others have toward our country, tremendously. That is not an easy task. I recall watching his first major speech that he gave in Egypt. I thought that speech was stunning.

You are correct in that we do a lot of good around the world. In fact, I imagine that so many military folks have done countless good deeds for many others in the countries they are in. Those things often go unheard. I can only imagine how many woman, children, and even innocent men that are military has probably helped back on their feet, get out of harms way, help rebuild their lives.

I actually do believe mightily in helping others around the world, and I would graciously donate or be proud of my tax dollars going to nation building or poverty stricken countries around the world. I'm not a very big proponent of nation building in countries we have destroyed as we aren't wanted there by so many folks. I would support nation building to our allies (even in the middle east) if we are wanted or asked for help after they have experienced war, tragedies of natural causes etc... assuming it wasn't our doing. Ie. If Iran were to bomb Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc. I would be all for sending our military or whoever wanted to go help and I would donate money to the cause or be proud that my tax dollars are paying to help a country of need. I would even be willing for my tax dollars to go help to support those that aren't our allies (assuming our country could afford it) if they asked for our help. I just don't support any of our aggression toward others.

Imagine if we weren't in a zillion countries and 9/11 never happened. Imagine no $15 trillion debt. We could have spent a few trillion on education, fixing healthcare, alternative energy sources, and even have enough to help our allies and we'd probably have $0 debt or close to it. We could be years ahead regarding energy sources, technological advances, etc if we hadn't spent so much on wars and put a fraction of that money elsewhere. Not to mention quite a few more allies and not have to live in a world so full of war. What could have been. That's why I say, "We" are the problem. It does take 2 to tango, but I prefer turning a cheek. Someday our govt will have to take on that mind-set or it will simply go on forever, until the world is destroyed.

Noble but naive sentiments! I disagree with you when you say 'we' as a country are the problem. You are right that we have contributed to the problem, though often with good intentions gone awry. There has been a fair bit of stupidity as well, such as the whole Iraq mess! While I don't go along with the attitude that we are God's gift to the world or that we are the best in everything I do believe that the US has been a positive force for good on this planet and that we are uniquely positioned to continue being a leader in bringing freedom, democracy, and prosperity to the world. Have we made mistakes? Of course, some very big ones. Will we make mistakes again? Without a doubt, some of them huge and possibly ones we have made before. As individual citizens, as 'patriots', it is our responsibility to do our part in contributing to the national conversation to recognize the mistakes and learn from them. It is not possible to improve as a person or a country without being humble enough to admit prior wrongs and work to do better. On this the comparison between Romney and Obama could not be more clear. Mitt is the bully who does not understand that true strength is enhanced by admitting wrongs. Obama has been articulate in acknowledging the US is not perfect without ever groveling. Just the opposite, he helps all of us hold our heads a little higher. I am proud to be an American and proud to fly the stars and stripes! The truest patriot is the progressive who aspires for his country to reach for the highest ideal but remaining mindful of what is actually realistic given the world we live in.

[Teddy B 17,252]

so, i didn't say anything that wasn't true. i stated a couple facts & asked him to answer his question himself. now i'll ask you the same question. 3 actually. is our military full of the best & brightest?...before you answer or get offended. notice the word full and think about some of the people you met while in the service. did they all fit in the 'best & brightest' category? how many out of the not bunch were ranked higher than yourself?

You're spot on Smoke. While there is a good number of intelligent people in the military, there is also a very large number of below average intelligence, probably the majority. I had a buddy in High School that couldn't pass the entrance exam for the Army, he failed twice. The recruiters allowed to have someone else take the test for him. Granted the service did him some good and probably kept him out of prison, because this kid was going down hill very fast, but he's still dumb as a stump today and works medial jobs.

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

and quite frankly the majority of the folks that are in the military would probably be unemployed right now if there was no military as the ones that join aren't the sharpest pencils in the box.

are you aware there's quite a few active military/former military on this site who may take offense to that statement?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

are you aware there's quite a few active military/former military on this site who may take offense to that statement?

I have worked for a few large companies, and the ones that seem to excel and advance quickly, are almost always former military.

ETA: Probably more true back when we had a draft, but as a new population of veterans enters the workforce, I suspect we will see the same thing happen again.

Edited September 13, 2012 by The Patriot

[SMOKE 1,426]

are you aware there's quite a few active military/former military on this site who may take offense to that statement?

are you aware there's quite a few religious people on this site who may take offense to many of the statements made on this site daily that you don't comment on?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

are you aware there's quite a few religious people on this site who may take offense to many of the statements made on this site daily that you don't comment on?

You mean the folks that seem to always get butthurt and hit the report button?

Edited September 13, 2012 by The Patriot