does racism go away after moving to the US?

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Do realize that I usually post here when I'm frustrated, not when things are going well. 95% of the time, he and I are happy... it is just 5% of the time, I have some major issues with him. Still you are right that these issues have been enough to where I have thought about divorce, even very recently. I still cannot say with any certainty that our marriage will work out, due to our different ideologies on important issues. He does not want to come to the US as he's been dragging his feet on taking care of visa paperwork, yet he is still proceeding forwards for me. He says he wants our marriage to work. I think calling the relationship a "huge disaster" may be premature, as couples usually have a lot of adjustment issues their first year or so, as we definitely do. We made the mistake of marrying too fast, and now we are trying to work out our differences. Although things may end up not working, I still think my marriage deserves some effort right now... so I can at least know I tried everything I could. My husband is really not a bad guy at all, he has a lot of great qualities which I love about him and would be hard-pressed to find in another person, but our ways of thinking is just vastly different.

You know, I admire you for trying but.. to be blunt.. "When you push sh*t uphill you're going to get covered in it". There are far too many differences (in my opinion) to make this a happy relationship. You cannot change him and to go into this expecting he will is foolish. Instead, you are trying to change yourself and what you can and can't handle. This is how many abusive relationships start.

I personally wouldn't have him immigrate here. Not yet anyway. I think you guys need to talk through ideologies and all that more. I wouldn't marry someone that thinks getting smashed every weekend is okay. I wouldn't stay with my husband if he suddenly turned fanatically religious, or political, or into sports (as opposed to his car obsession). I had/have ideas about what is okay and what I can handle. If he didn't fit with my ideals I wouldn't stay with him. That sounds awfully selfish but I suffered through one abusive relationship and I won't do so again. I'd rather be alone for the rest of my life.

[AngelnSteve 0]

Elements of Racism are natural, we all at some point notice difference - it's how we react to what is different that defines us. Your husband is obviously entitled to his views and opinions but really should consider how his words will be taken over here. Integration is important.

[Peter_Pan 661]

If I am not mistaken, saying you are black and proud is good, but white and proud is racist? Scholarships for blacks are ok, but for white only they are racist?

[Nina~ 431]

There is a world of difference between not finding dark skin attractive versus being disgusted by it. I don't think it is racist that he has his personal preference, however it is quite disturbing that he feels compelled to vocalize it the way he did. It is debatable if it is racist or not, but FWIW it is very immature.

I know that you keep saying that you are happy for the most part, however things will change once you start living together and are in each other's face 100% of the time. Throw in some adjustment, money, culture, and family issues, and it is a powder keg waiting to blow up. Like most women you seem to cling on to the hope that he might change once he gets here. But from VJ's track record over the years, I think it is highly unlikely.

[bob.sansmal 14]

Alternative to what? The 'norm'? What is normal? We are all different. To someone who never left their hometown and married their high school girlfriend/boyfriend, we all live an "alternative lifestyle".

Well, of course that's a euphemism that primarily refers to persons with homosexual partner preferences. Of course it also encompasses a whole wide range of other "lifestyle choices" and really means anything outside of the one-man-one-woman nuclear family unit that defines the majority of partnered relationships in US culture.

It's a broad term, but I think appropriate in this context as I would imagine that, depending on who your friends as associates are, there might be a few different groups of people around which someone not used to metropolitan US culture might not feel comfortable.

As far as people changing....well, I'm a bit of a skeptic on that. If we're talking about adjusting to local customs and taboos, then yes, definitely people are very adaptable. If it's something closer to the core of who they are, well I don't think that's as likely to change. A person is who they are, and one should either love them, fully and completely, "flaws" and all....or leave them for someone else who will.

[del-2-5-2014 1,339]

Then color me racist, cause I don't find black people sexually attractive either. Or Asians. Or, I've found, Indians. What's with the political correctness #######?

Of course he is going to stare at a black chick with boobies hanging out, hell, I DO IT.

"Nothing is more unjust, however common, than to charge with hypocrisy him that expresses zeal for those virtues which he neglects to practice; since he may be sincerely convinced of the advantages of conquering his passions, without having yet obtained the victory, as a man may be confident of the advantages of a voyage, or a journey, without having courage or industry to undertake it, and may honestly recommend to others, those attempts which he neglects himself." Samuel Johnson

[del-2-5-2014 1,339]

There is a world of difference between not finding dark skin attractive versus being disgusted by it. I don't think it is racist that he has his personal preference, however it is quite disturbing that he feels compelled to vocalize it the way he did. It is debatable if it is racist or not, but FWIW it is very immature.

I know that you keep saying that you are happy for the most part, however things will change once you start living together and are in each other's face 100% of the time. Throw in some adjustment, money, culture, and family issues, and it is a powder keg waiting to blow up. Like most women you seem to cling on to the hope that he might change once he gets here. But from VJ's track record over the years, I think it is highly unlikely.

I agree.

It is my opinion that this a doomed relationship, without the shadow of a doubt. Not that OPs Fiance reads like an uncultured person, but that he doesn't seem to care about OPs feelings.

[aprilflower 0]

I got a kick out of your post. I have been living in India for 7 years now so I can giggle and nod along as I read. People really are crazy behind the whole fairness thing. I think things will get better once he gets to the US and has a chance to interact with people. I grew up in a small town in southern Kansas and then moved to Kansas City and then eventually to Washington DC. Each time I had a bit of a culture shock. I went from a place where everyone was white to a high school where white people were in the minority. Eventually I ended up in India, where everyone is brown and "they all look the same". This is a joke my husband and I have. He lived in the US for 5 years and he said all white people look the same for him (my argument is that most of us have differently colored eyes and hair which is not true for most indians). I would say we all have our preferences and hopefully after he has lived in the US for a bit he will have a better understanding of his prejudices and what he should and shouldn't say. I think the recommendation for cultures shock USA is a good one. I read the one for India and though some of it is outdated, it is still a good way to get a deeper understanding for a culture you are entering in to. I have found in my husband's family(and many Hindus here) they are extremely anti-muslim but my husband is not and he told me that the muslims he met in the US were very good people. Just be patient. It takes a long time to make such a transition(as long as you are sure that your husband is someone who will not be dead set against change). Even after this many years in India, there are certain things I just can't quite wrap my brain around!

I don't know about how compatible you are with your husband, I hope this is the main area where your thoughts are vastly different and there really aren't any others. I haven't read your other posts obviously but I can understand that sometimes you get at that point of frustration where you really need to vent. Best of luck!

[issha2lynden 77]

That's NOT racism imo, that's preference, and you're right that it is based on how he was raised. It's also totally different saying that to YOU and saying that to other people. It's not like he said that that person was unattractive because they were a certain race, he simply doesn't like their skin tone. Some people don't like ghostly white people, some people hate fake tans. Preference.

Friend of mine is singaporean, she returned home from University to her home country and was told she was "too dark" and this is a county where "skin lightening" creams exist so she had to lighten her skin. Another friend was told by her parents she'd gotten fat (not at ALL) but she spent her holiday with a personal trainer getting "back in shape". It's like some people liking country music and others hating it (preference). Friend of mine grew up in a "naked house" whereas I most definitely did NOT so of course my views on that would be different to his.

I personally prefer people taller than me. He happens to prefer people more lighter skinned and used his explanation of "some people from Africa" being too dark. Maybe it's more the way he said it...

To answer your question his views might change a little but he's still entitled to his opinion. I think the only thing here is you need to tell him not to say those things in public and tell him it makes you uncomfortable to hear it.

Very well said. :thumbs:

[Mike B. 231]

Martin Luther King was a good Republican. So what?

Actually he was a particularly lousy Republican who often blasted the party as the party of hypocrites that it was and is today. As I'm sure you know, it was the Democrats who ended up supporting the Civil Rights Act in an effort to win the votes of the urban poor and it was the Republicans who then adopted the "Southern Strategy" of embracing racist southern whites all the while espousing a much more inclusive rhetoric in the North. To this very day both parties as still using the same strategies, which is why the Republicans are essentially the party of white southerners and rural areas and the Democrats are the party of blacks, urban-dwellers, and northerners. Just look at an electoral map if you don't believe that.

Of course, LBJ didn't just sign the Civil Rights Act, he also ramped up the cruel war in Vietnam, which MLK was bitterly opposed to. Consequentially, MLK ended up harshly judging both parties. Throughout much of his life, MLK was essentially a socialist, and very publicly bad-mouthed capitalism, although he adopted a policy of avoiding what he called "The S word." It always strikes me as quite curious that the same people who were jumping up and down calling the man a communist a couple decades ago are the people who today try to claim that MLK was some sort of right-wing Republican today. He wasn't one. Whether you agree or disagree, Martin Luther King thought that both parties were full of self-serving hypocrites and racists and that the whole capitalist economy had outlived its usefulness.

[Beach Bum 4]

I would not call it racism, however he does realize he is a minority and too some people HE is too dark to aesthetically pleasing, right?ask him how he feels about that, if he considers it racism, then tell him he is racist.I just can't stand minorities feeling that way about each other .

Edited September 2, 2012 by Beach Bum

[abner137 48]

If he expresses himself like that he will be in for a rude awakening and will adapt. Don't sweat it. Also you may have him read the book "Culture Shock USA" which is available on Amazon.com for under $10.00 to round out his viewpoint and expectations in the USA.

LOL...he'll figure it out one way or another....more than likely he will experience the shoe on the other foot and maybe that will change his thoughts and beliefs about it.

GOOD LUCK!

[catknit 144]

I got a kick out of your post. I have been living in India for 7 years now so I can giggle and nod along as I read. People really are crazy behind the whole fairness thing. I think things will get better once he gets to the US and has a chance to interact with people. I grew up in a small town in southern Kansas and then moved to Kansas City and then eventually to Washington DC. Each time I had a bit of a culture shock. I went from a place where everyone was white to a high school where white people were in the minority. Eventually I ended up in India, where everyone is brown and "they all look the same". This is a joke my husband and I have. He lived in the US for 5 years and he said all white people look the same for him (my argument is that most of us have differently colored eyes and hair which is not true for most indians). I would say we all have our preferences and hopefully after he has lived in the US for a bit he will have a better understanding of his prejudices and what he should and shouldn't say. I think the recommendation for cultures shock USA is a good one. I read the one for India and though some of it is outdated, it is still a good way to get a deeper understanding for a culture you are entering in to. I have found in my husband's family(and many Hindus here) they are extremely anti-muslim but my husband is not and he told me that the muslims he met in the US were very good people. Just be patient. It takes a long time to make such a transition(as long as you are sure that your husband is someone who will not be dead set against change). Even after this many years in India, there are certain things I just can't quite wrap my brain around!

I don't know about how compatible you are with your husband, I hope this is the main area where your thoughts are vastly different and there really aren't any others. I haven't read your other posts obviously but I can understand that sometimes you get at that point of frustration where you really need to vent. Best of luck!

^This!

But, in addition, I know if you look back at rrk1's posts and my responses I seem like the one who is constantly saying - but this is SO much Indian culture, he's only doing/saying/planning based on what he knows. However, in this case again, I believe it's true. Fair skin obsession and shade-ism is a HUGE deal in South Asia. HUGE. There is all sorts of history behind it - for those in doubt, google will give you months worth of reading on this skin tone obsession thing. To me, it sounds like he really doesn't have many preconceived notions or stereotypes about African American people, he is just expressing an opinion about how he perceives the appearance factor.

I think it is a good sign that they are talking about these things and that he feels safe in confiding these thoughts to her. Why? She is able to give feedback to the questions. For her, obviously, judging anyone based on skin color is verboten - not only that but that that conclusion is "normal" for an American. Now he knows more and I think it will shape not just his thoughts about his conclusions, it will affect his behavior. When bridging a two culture relationship - some conversations/questions/theories need to be aired and addressed. In this case, having never been exposed to non-desi people, he really is grasping at straws. He may still disagree about using what most of the US deems older language in naming a group but that should be cleared up super quick when here [most likely by an AA coworker/friend who tells him like it is - my husband didn't believe somethings I told him way back when because obviously being born here and living here my whole life, living the traditional american culture, etc etc didn't exposed me to some "truths" he either read about or saw on TV :bonk: Guess who was correct in the end?].

Another thing that will floor him here - obese people [this coming from a woman currently wearing a size 12/14 - so in NO way am I calling out fat people - I am one of you]. My husband was FLOORED by the quantity and sheer size of the obese. A chunky auntie somewhere in the family back at home, sure, it happens. A 400 pound 20 something using a scooter in Walmart? Mind blowing to him. India is worlds different than the US. Really.

[TnJ 131]

To my disappointment, I didn't know racism exists, until I came here.

Where did you come from? That's really sad as racial and class tensions run rampant all over the world. I would hate to think of someone growing into their adult life without having any awareness of this reality.

[Xanax 349]

Where did you come from? That's really sad as racial and class tensions run rampant all over the world. I would hate to think of someone growing into their adult life without having any awareness of this reality.

I don't think it's sad. I think it shows where ever Lillian came from was very progressive and that's great!

Further more, I really do agree with Vanessa , at least 80%. I have read almost all of your topics and it seems there are huge disparities in your believes, ideologies and your basic wants and needs from a marriage. You said your husband doesn't even want to be in the US