Virginia New Achievement Standards Based On Race And Background

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

The RACE CARD? Its whats for breakfast lunch and dinner.

If we could get rid of three issues we would all vote together and throw all the bums out. Race, Gay rights and abortion. Politicians love these issues because they keep us divided and them in power.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

If we could get rid of three issues we would all vote together and throw all the bums out. Race, Gay rights and abortion. Politicians love these issues because they keep us divided and them in power.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

But it's not racist when well meaning Liberals do it.. LOL

Actually it is the racism of lower expectations. Liberals believe minorities "can't" do things because they are minorities. I believe they can. The requirements should be the same for all people. No one shoudl expect less from someone because of the color of their skin.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

If we could get rid of three issues we would all vote together and throw all the bums out. Race, Gay rights and abortion. Politicians love these issues because they keep us divided and them in power.

Which means politicians are merely taking advantage of people's stupidity. Why would any of those things influence how people vote? Why would any of those things influence YOUR life?

If we would all just be Libertarians everythign would be great!

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Which means politicians are merely taking advantage of people's stupidity. Why would any of those things influence how people vote? Why would any of those things influence YOUR life?

If we would all just be Libertarians everythign would be great!

But the problem is they do influence in a big way how people vote. How do they influence me ?? Not at all I don't give hang what choices people make in their won personal life.

[james&olya 1,121]

Actually it is the racism of lower expectations. Liberals believe minorities "can't" do things because they are minorities. I believe they can. The requirements should be the same for all people. No one shoudl expect less from someone because of the color of their skin.

It is very politically incorrect to state but there really are differences between races. There is also tremendous variation within races so the 'bell curves' have more overlap than difference. When I was in college and briefly an elementary ed major before switching to my current profession, I took a class on gifted children. At that time scientists had identified over 200 separate identifiable areas of 'intelligence' that could be individually measured. Some were much more difficult than others to measure, others, such as memorization and math skill very easy to test. Most were very dependent on the level of exposure a given individual had to certain influences and experiences earlier. What they find is that we are all a different combination of strengths and weaknesses. Whether it is a 'zero-sum' sort of comparison is impossible to say because that would depend on the relative weighting you gave to each ability. The problem is that while differences exist between different ethnicities and races it becomes problematic to determine how much of it has to do with genetics and how much may be cultural or socioeconomic. Regardless of the basis for measured differences, such differences tend to provoke great sensitivity when pointed out. As a result we pretend to accept the fiction that races cannot be different and then we foolishly base public policy on this flawed assumption.

What is needed is greater understanding and appreciation for every individual's worth as a human being. Having a higher math or memorization intelligence, a greater athletic intelligence (neuro-muscular coordination), greater musical intelligence, or whatever, should never give anyone the right to believe they have any greater worth as a human being than anyone else. It would help if schools emphasized cooperative rather than competitive learning and testing. But you are right about the 'soft bigotry of low expectations'! It is a complex and difficult thing to work through. Combined with some very toxic racial attitudes that persist throughout the country and the de-facto segregation that still exists in many communities it becomes very difficult to apply the principles of standardized state-wide and national testing to evaluate teacher and school performance.

I don't know what the practical solution is. I do know that there are some disgusting individuals who use this issue to create more problems for disadvantaged groups in this country rather than work toward progress in narrowing achievement gaps.

Edited September 2, 2012 by james&olya

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

It is very politically incorrect to state but there really are differences between races. There is also tremendous variation within races so the 'bell curves' have more overlap than difference. When I was in college and briefly an elementary ed major before switching to my current profession, I took a class on gifted children. At that time scientists had identified over 200 separate identifiable areas of 'intelligence' that could be individually measured. Some were much more difficult than others to measure, others, such as memorization and math skill very easy to test. Most were very dependent on the level of exposure a given individual had to certain influences and experiences earlier. What they find is that we are all a different combination of strengths and weaknesses. Whether it is a 'zero-sum' sort of comparison is impossible to say because that would depend on the relative weighting you gave to each ability. The problem is that while differences exist between different ethnicities and races it becomes problematic to determine how much of it has to do with genetics and how much may be cultural or socioeconomic. Regardless of the basis for measured differences, such differences tend to provoke great sensitivity when pointed out. As a result we pretend to accept the fiction that races cannot be different and then we foolishly base public policy on this flawed assumption.

What is needed is greater understanding and appreciation for every individual's worth as a human being. Having a higher math or memorization intelligence, a greater athletic intelligence (neuro-muscular coordination), greater musical intelligence, or whatever, should never give anyone the right to believe they have any greater worth as a human being than anyone else. It would help if schools emphasized cooperative rather than competitive learning and testing. But you are right about the 'soft bigotry of low expectations'! It is a complex and difficult thing to work through. Combined with some very toxic racial attitudes that persist throughout the country and the de-facto segregation that still exists in many communities it becomes very difficult to apply the principles of standardized state-wide and national testing to evaluate teacher and school performance.

I don't know what the practical solution is. I do know that there are some disgusting individuals who use this issue to create more problems for disadvantaged groups in this country rather than work toward progress in narrowing achievement gaps.

So you favor discrimination based on race and segregation also? You believe that white people should be discriminated against and made to have higher achievement just to be equal to blacks? This creates problems for which group of people?

This is racism pure and simple James. Using statistics rather than burning crosses is simply a change of technique. I do not accept that black people are inferior to me. I also believe the achievement gaps should be narrowed by RAISING the expectations of people with lower achievement, not by LOWERING the expectations of those higher achievement.

It is an area on which I will always disagree with racists. People are equal...period. When people are treated as equals and expected to be equal, achievement will improve. As long as racists continue with the mantra of "It's OK, I understand, you CAN'T do it. It's not your fault and here are the statistics to prove it. Just goover there and sign up for welfare and food stamps, let us feed your kids and make them obese like you...don't worry we will pay for their insuling, of course, and give you this fine home to live in, even though it is kind of segregated and they can go to the school in this neighborhood full of welfare receipients so they are the same as everyone else and don't feel stigmatized"

That's it James. Keep them right where you want them. Worked for the Indians.

[catknit 144]

Nothing to add of substance [like usual] but an anecdote:

Driving down our main highway, where all the schools are located [elementary, middle, and high school] with my dad years ago. The schools all have on their main outdoor billboard style signs the following:

SOL - Good Luck Students!

At the time, I was not living in Virginia. SOL in my world meant something that would not end up on a school sign. So, when we pass the first school I laugh thinking some kids are trying to be funny by re-arranging letters.

At the 2nd school, with the same sign, I thought - Well, at least the kids are being consistent and trying to piss off the whole community.

At home, there it is again as a headline in the paper. SOLs Coming to Area Schools. At this point I'm thinking, what the heck?

SOL = Standards of Learning. [What happens when you actually read the article with the headline, it all becomes clear]. That is the name of the state test. Not only that, kids books can be deemed "SOL approved" - my parents are friends with a local author that writes historical fiction for kids that is SOL compliant.

So, I asked some people, do you really thinking this is a good acronym for the state test? Someone told me it was completely accurate as the kids end up SOL with the public education here.

[james&olya 1,121]

So you favor discrimination based on race and segregation also? You believe that white people should be discriminated against and made to have higher achievement just to be equal to blacks? This creates problems for which group of people?

This is racism pure and simple James. Using statistics rather than burning crosses is simply a change of technique. I do not accept that black people are inferior to me. I also believe the achievement gaps should be narrowed by RAISING the expectations of people with lower achievement, not by LOWERING the expectations of those higher achievement.

It is an area on which I will always disagree with racists. People are equal...period. When people are treated as equals and expected to be equal, achievement will improve. As long as racists continue with the mantra of "It's OK, I understand, you CAN'T do it. It's not your fault and here are the statistics to prove it. Just goover there and sign up for welfare and food stamps, let us feed your kids and make them obese like you...don't worry we will pay for their insuling, of course, and give you this fine home to live in, even though it is kind of segregated and they can go to the school in this neighborhood full of welfare receipients so they are the same as everyone else and don't feel stigmatized"

That's it James. Keep them right where you want them. Worked for the Indians.

No. I do NOT favor discrimination based on race. Where did you get that from?

We all have equal value as humans. I agree with that. We are NOT equal as individuals in specific areas of natural aptitude! No matter how hard I try I will never come close to the performance levels of NFL or NBA level athletes, let alone Olympic champions. On the other hand I have smoked my competition in the past in academic areas! Most of my classmates could not come close to my scores no matter how hard they tried. Does that make me a better person or worth more as a human? No. It has enabled me to achieve academically to obtain the credentials that in combination with hard work and a lot of responsibility allows me a more than comfortable income. We are not all equal in our academic ability! Period! Some of us are lucky there, some not so much. It is not 'fair' but then not much about life on this planet is. For students who have significantly below average academic ability based on genetics and environmental influences they will never achieve at a 'standard' level unless those standards are lowered significantly. And because there are classrooms that have disproportionately high numbers of some of those academically disadvantged children it is unreasonable to punish those schools and teachers when their average scores fall short. How do you get around these problems? IQ testing is notoriously inaccurate, especially as the results are based on an assumption that all students have had a very similar range of experiences and exposure to facts and ideas. So what do you do? I wish I had an easy answer. It sounds like these people in Virginia are trying to work their way through these very complex and sensitive issues. Maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt and see what they are able to come up with.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

No. I do NOT favor discrimination based on race. Where did you get that from?

We all have equal value as humans. I agree with that. We are NOT equal as individuals in specific areas of natural aptitude! No matter how hard I try I will never come close to the performance levels of NFL or NBA level athletes, let alone Olympic champions. On the other hand I have smoked my competition in the past in academic areas! Most of my classmates could not come close to my scores no matter how hard they tried. Does that make me a better person or worth more as a human? No. It has enabled me to achieve academically to obtain the credentials that in combination with hard work and a lot of responsibility allows me a more than comfortable income. We are not all equal in our academic ability! Period! Some of us are lucky there, some not so much. It is not 'fair' but then not much about life on this planet is. For students who have significantly below average academic ability based on genetics and environmental influences they will never achieve at a 'standard' level unless those standards are lowered significantly. And because there are classrooms that have disproportionately high numbers of some of those academically disadvantged children it is unreasonable to punish those schools and teachers when their average scores fall short. How do you get around these problems? IQ testing is notoriously inaccurate, especially as the results are based on an assumption that all students have had a very similar range of experiences and exposure to facts and ideas. So what do you do? I wish I had an easy answer. It sounds like these people in Virginia are trying to work their way through these very complex and sensitive issues. Maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt and see what they are able to come up with.

Maybe we should expect high perfomance so when you fall short it is still pretty good. But to require white students to have higher success rates than black students is discrimination based on skin color pure and simple. Only a racist is OK with that.

[james&olya 1,121]

Maybe we should expect high perfomance so when you fall short it is still pretty good. But to require white students to have higher success rates than black students is discrimination based on skin color pure and simple. Only a racist is OK with that.

It is inappropriate to base any of this solely on skin color. But it is entirely appropriate and in fact quite desirable to require a higher level of performance from gifted students than from average ones. This is a major issue that most people seem unaware of. There is a tremendous pool of underperforming gifted individuals in this country who were never challenged in school, never learned to really study and apply themselves! These students come from all sorts of backgrounds and races. All children should be challenged in school to do THEIR best, not just to meet some watered down 'standard'!

[kytwell 179]

It is inappropriate to base any of this solely on skin color. But it is entirely appropriate and in fact quite desirable to require a higher level of performance from gifted students than from average ones. This is a major issue that most people seem unaware of. There is a tremendous pool of underperforming gifted individuals in this country who were never challenged in school, never learned to really study and apply themselves! These students come from all sorts of backgrounds and races. All children should be challenged in school to do THEIR best, not just to meet some watered down 'standard'!

What hurts is that learning disabled kids, autistic kids, kids with mental issues are all now in one class with the gifted and "normal" kids. So the kids who are gifted are being taught in the same room with the worst of the kids. Teachers can only teach as fast as the slowest kid picks it up. I understand that these kids should not be marginalized, but at the same time we can't completely dumb down our entire nation because of them. When I was in school(graduated High school '92) they had SPED(Special education) classes. And all of these kids were together there. Now they put kids with behavioral issues and learning disabilities together with "normal" kids. It's a mess.

Edited September 4, 2012 by kytwell