Burmese living in Thailand

[RobertAtlantaUSA 1]

Hi and thanks for reading. I would like to think about bringing my girlfriend to the USA on a fiance Visa. I was born and raised in the USA. She is my girlfriend of 5 months and was born and raised in Myanmar (Burma) but is living in Thailand and has a Thai ID, but I am not sure if she is living there legally. Her whole family of sisters lives in Thailand, not sure if they are there legally either. My gf has a son in Thailand that was born in Myanmar but has lived 4 years in Thailand.

My questions are this... since Im pretty sure she is living in Thailand without permission, will my attempts at bringing her to the USA be futile? I am tempted to tell her to take her son and go back and live in Myanmar for a while, maybe a year, and then maybe we could apply for her as a Burmese citizen. Ideally I would like to apply now, but not sure how the US embassy would think about the fact that she has been living and working in Thailand for 5 years without papers. They might think she will do the same in the USA.

One more little twist. She was working in a Tshirt shop in Thailand that sold copies, and she was arrested and thrown in jail twice over 4 years she worked there when the shop was raided. She had to spend one night in jail and her boss bailed her out for around $700US. Will this criminal record hurt her in addition to the other problems?

Should I just give up and go live in Thailand with her? I stayed with her for 3 months earlier this year, and we got along great, we even talked marriage. I adore her son and he loves me too.

Thanks for your help.

Edited August 31, 2012 by RobertAtlantaUSA

[C-ma'am 684]

Hi and thanks for reading. I would like to think about bringing my girlfriend to the USA on a fiance Visa. I was born and raised in the USA. She is my girlfriend of 5 months and was born and raised in Myanmar (Burma) but is living in Thailand and has a Thai ID, but I am not sure if she is living there legally. Her whole family of sisters lives in Thailand, not sure if they are there legally either. My gf has a son in Thailand that was born in Myanmar but has lived 4 years in Thailand.

My questions are this... since Im pretty sure she is living in Thailand without permission, will my attempts at bringing her to the USA be futile? I am tempted to tell her to take her son and go back and live in Myanmar for a while, maybe a year, and then maybe we could apply for her as a Burmese citizen. Ideally I would like to apply now, but not sure how the US embassy would think about the fact that she has been living and working in Thailand for 5 years without papers. They might think she will do the same in the USA.

One more little twist. She was working in a Tshirt shop in Thailand that sold copies, and she was arrested and thrown in jail twice over 4 years she worked there when the shop was raided. She had to spend one night in jail and her boss bailed her out for around $700US. Will this criminal record hurt her in addition to the other problems?

Should I just give up and go live in Thailand with her? I stayed with her for 3 months earlier this year, and we got along great, we even talked marriage. I adore her son and he loves me too.

Thanks for your help.

Hello Robert and welcome to VJ!

When it comes to being able to file the petition while she is in Thailand, this can only be accomplished if she resides in the Country legally. Her work, even if it's under the table, will not have an impact on the petition. I suggest you find out if this is her case, so she could interview there when the time comes.

The twist in your story may be what will "hurt" your petition. I'm not an expert on this, but when a beneficiary has had runs with the law, things get more difficult; but not impossible to overcome depending on the severity of her criminal records. Usually, when this scenario comes into place, it's recommended that you consult with an Immigration lawyer.

Hang on tight, though. I'm sure other knowledgeable members will be able to comment on this specific question.

[beejay 123]

Did she leave Myanmar for economic or humanitarian reasons? Is she or was she living in a refugee camp in Thailand? Does she have some sort of refugee status in Thailand? This is pure speculation on my part but depending on her ethnic group there may be provisions for her so that she does not have to go back to Myanmar for her interview. I would also be nervous - even though I know things are supposed to be changing- that the Burmese government would not let her leave on a visa. I think you should try and exhaust your options of trying to get a visa through Thailand before asking her to return to Myanmar. I would not assume she does not have the option of interviewing in Thailand and if possible I would try and consult with a lawyer who has knowledge in this area to better understand what your options might be. Unless you want to pick up and move to Thailand I would not assume it is impossible for her to come and live with you in the U.S. I think it's worth trying before you assume it's impossible.

The arrest record is another matter that I will leave to more qualified individuals but Celeste&C did give you a good heads up on the matter. This is another reason to at least get an opinion from an experienced and qualified lawyer.

Good luck and please let us know what you find out.

[Ning 619]

Hi and thanks for reading. I would like to think about bringing my girlfriend to the USA on a fiance Visa. I was born and raised in the USA. She is my girlfriend of 5 months and was born and raised in Myanmar (Burma) but is living in Thailand and has a Thai ID, but I am not sure if she is living there legally. Her whole family of sisters lives in Thailand, not sure if they are there legally either. My gf has a son in Thailand that was born in Myanmar but has lived 4 years in Thailand.

My questions are this... since Im pretty sure she is living in Thailand without permission, will my attempts at bringing her to the USA be futile? I am tempted to tell her to take her son and go back and live in Myanmar for a while, maybe a year, and then maybe we could apply for her as a Burmese citizen. Ideally I would like to apply now, but not sure how the US embassy would think about the fact that she has been living and working in Thailand for 5 years without papers. They might think she will do the same in the USA.

One more little twist. She was working in a Tshirt shop in Thailand that sold copies, and she was arrested and thrown in jail twice over 4 years she worked there when the shop was raided. She had to spend one night in jail and her boss bailed her out for around $700US. Will this criminal record hurt her in addition to the other problems?

Should I just give up and go live in Thailand with her? I stayed with her for 3 months earlier this year, and we got along great, we even talked marriage. I adore her son and he loves me too.

Thanks for your help.

This needs to begin with the situation surrounding the child. This child will not be issued a visa with out the bio fathers permission or possibly a court order. Thai courts arent going to deal with citizens of Myanmar. Especially those that are illegals.

You need to check with the embassy to find out exactly what they will require for the child. Prepare your self for some difficult news. This is a serious situation. You may not have to worry about the rest of this after you get info from them.

Two trips to Thai jails isnt going to help as the case develops. Working ilegally while commiting crimes isnt a good idea in Thailand. This will surface with the required police report. She wont have to worry about working in the USA.

Should you live in Thailand? Sure if you understand you wont be working there and you will need to learn to live as a Thai unless you are wealthy. Study the Thai economy carefully. Understand it wont take much for her to be deported at any time.

It may prove a lot easier to try to get she and the child out of Myanmar but it will take a long time and cost plenty.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Ning

[ThaitoUSA 15]

Should you live in Thailand? Sure if you understand you wont be working there and you will need to learn to live as a Thai unless you are wealthy.

How come? I legally lived and worked in Thailand.

[Mogambi 96]

If she were to go back to Myanmar, the fact that she was in Thailand illegally shouldn't hurt her. And the fact that she was working there illegally won't be a problem as well. The US Embassy won't be asking her for work visas, or probably asking her to see any kind of visa related to her stay in Thailand. My fiancé lived in Thailand for two years (she's from Philippines) and she worked a bit there as well. It never came up. But she didn't have a student visa to be there. But they never asked to see her old passport that would have had all the stamps relating to her stay in Thailand.

As to the other two issues, that is for sure where it gets tricky.

Since she has lived in Thailand, she's going to have to produce a police report from Thailand. I'd highly recommend she go and do that soon, if you're even thinking about bringing her here. That way, you will see what shows up on the police report. But here's the thing, if she is there illegally, wouldn't they have deported her on one of her arrests? Are you sure she's there illegally? I suppose the risk in her attempting to get the police report now is that if she IS there illegally, it could cause problems. But it would be nice to know if in fact her stays in the jail will show up on the police report. I would think so, but you never know. Depending on where it was, how many were brought in, if the police were just looking for bail and kickbacks from her boss, it might never have been entered into the system, in which case, no problem for you!

If she DOES have a police record in Thailand, it won't be for a crime that would disqualify her I wouldn't think, but you might need a lawyer to help out, as it will be for sure more complicated. And you'll need to know if she has any issues back in Myanmar that you need to know about too.

As for her son, yes, it's complicated too by needing her father's permission, and you need to know the rules in Myanmar about such things.

All in all, it would be easier for her if she was in Myanmar to handle all of this for sure.

It's a complicated case, but if you really love her, don't assume it can't be done!

[Ning 619]

How come? I legally lived and worked in Thailand.

I dont see that in your OP but since you have you know exactly what you are doing and should leave asap. Just make sure you know enough about Thailand to be ready if they deport her one of these days.

[Ning 619]

If she were to go back to Myanmar, the fact that she was in Thailand illegally shouldn't hurt her. And the fact that she was working there illegally won't be a problem as well. The US Embassy won't be asking her for work visas, or probably asking her to see any kind of visa related to her stay in Thailand. My fiancé lived in Thailand for two years (she's from Philippines) and she worked a bit there as well. It never came up. But she didn't have a student visa to be there. But they never asked to see her old passport that would have had all the stamps relating to her stay in Thailand.

As to the other two issues, that is for sure where it gets tricky.

Since she has lived in Thailand, she's going to have to produce a police report from Thailand. I'd highly recommend she go and do that soon, if you're even thinking about bringing her here. That way, you will see what shows up on the police report. But here's the thing, if she is there illegally, wouldn't they have deported her on one of her arrests? Are you sure she's there illegally? I suppose the risk in her attempting to get the police report now is that if she IS there illegally, it could cause problems. But it would be nice to know if in fact her stays in the jail will show up on the police report. I would think so, but you never know. Depending on where it was, how many were brought in, if the police were just looking for bail and kickbacks from her boss, it might never have been entered into the system, in which case, no problem for you!

If she DOES have a police record in Thailand, it won't be for a crime that would disqualify her I wouldn't think, but you might need a lawyer to help out, as it will be for sure more complicated. And you'll need to know if she has any issues back in Myanmar that you need to know about too.

As for her son, yes, it's complicated too by needing her father's permission, and you need to know the rules in Myanmar about such things.

All in all, it would be easier for her if she was in Myanmar to handle all of this for sure.

It's a complicated case, but if you really love her, don't assume it can't be done!

If she trys to get the Thai police report she will have to produce a NOA 1 - 2 or P 3 letter from the US embassy as well as a copy of the USCs passport bio page. Because she cant do this she will need to be very careful in her actions or she will end up being deported or buying her way out of the police station if shes lucky. I hope those that advise this realize what she may have to endure in a Thai jail. As an illegal with a child she will be sorry and helpless. The OP will need to know how to hire a Thai lawyer and have his bank account full to get her out. Her last stay cost 700 bucks; this one will be considerably more I assure you.

If she did get the police report it will show her crimes. The embassy will review that and realize she is an illegal. Lying about anything will end her chances of being granted a visa.

The rules about children are applied by all embassies. The Myanmar courts may be different than others when it comes to getting a court order but it is critical that the O P begins with the embassies procedures and policies where ever he decides to attempt this extraction of a child.

There is a reason this women fled to Thailand risking both her freedom and that of her child. I doubt she will return just to see what will happen because she knows what could and probably will happen. Should she take a chance? What will happen to the child if she is wrong?

[ThaitoUSA 15]

I dont see that in your OP but since you have you know exactly what you are doing and should leave asap. Just make sure you know enough about Thailand to be ready if they deport her one of these days.

That is because I am not the original poster. Nonetheless, I was asking you why you would tell the OP that he would not be working Thailand. Plenty of foreigners legally live and work there.

[Ning 619]

That is because I am not the original poster. Nonetheless, I was asking you why you would tell the OP that he would not be working Thailand. Plenty of foreigners legally live and work there.

I would think that people realize its possible to legally live and work in Thailand. You seem to to have done it. I am not sure how what you did relates to the O P or his unique situation. My comments were meant to inform him in the context that I understand his situation. He is seemingly thinking of moving to Thailand out of desperation rather than a viable plan.

Why not explain to him what you did to obtain the work visa and job there. Maybe he can follow your example. How exactly does your situation relate to his? He will need your advice as a USC on living and working in Thailand.

[Mogambi 96]

If she trys to get the Thai police report she will have to produce a NOA 1 - 2 or P 3 letter from the US embassy as well as a copy of the USCs passport bio page. Because she cant do this she will need to be very careful in her actions or she will end up being deported or buying her way out of the police station if shes lucky. I hope those that advise this realize what she may have to endure in a Thai jail. As an illegal with a child she will be sorry and helpless. The OP will need to know how to hire a Thai lawyer and have his bank account full to get her out. Her last stay cost 700 bucks; this one will be considerably more I assure you.

If she did get the police report it will show her crimes. The embassy will review that and realize she is an illegal. Lying about anything will end her chances of being granted a visa.

The rules about children are applied by all embassies. The Myanmar courts may be different than others when it comes to getting a court order but it is critical that the O P begins with the embassies procedures and policies where ever he decides to attempt this extraction of a child.

There is a reason this women fled to Thailand risking both her freedom and that of her child. I doubt she will return just to see what will happen because she knows what could and probably will happen. Should she take a chance? What will happen to the child if she is wrong?

We got police Thai clearance, and most certainly didn't have to supply the bio page from me, the USC. Here's the link to information about obtaining Thai police clearance:

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/root/pdfs/thaipoliceapr09.pdf

[Mogambi 96]

The tricky thing about Thai police clearance is that you have to show that you were a resident there, my fiancé had a Student Visa, so that was the proof. If you had a work visa you could use that. But in this case, since she is there illegally, she's going to have a hard time showing a document that showed she was in Thailand legally. In which case I'm not sure that they will grant the police report. Just her being there illegally isn't going to be a huge deal for the American Embassy probably. But she'll need that clearance, and the Thai police might be reluctant to give it. I still think even the crimes she was arrested for that you listed won't be an issue as they don't involve drugs and things like that. But it's going to be complicated for sure.

And yes, if she applies in person, they're going to ask to see visa at the Thai Police Clearance.

[Ning 619]

We got police Thai clearance, and most certainly didn't have to supply the bio page from me, the USC. Here's the link to information about obtaining Thai police clearance:

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/root/pdfs/thaipoliceapr09.pdf

You may not have and I didnt but in at least 4 recent cases the police insisted on the USCs bio page.

[Ning 619]

The tricky thing about Thai police clearance is that you have to show that you were a resident there, my fiancé had a Student Visa, so that was the proof. If you had a work visa you could use that. But in this case, since she is there illegally, she's going to have a hard time showing a document that showed she was in Thailand legally. In which case I'm not sure that they will grant the police report. Just her being there illegally isn't going to be a huge deal for the American Embassy probably. But she'll need that clearance, and the Thai police might be reluctant to give it. I still think even the crimes she was arrested for that you listed won't be an issue as they don't involve drugs and things like that. But it's going to be complicated for sure.

And yes, if she applies in person, they're going to ask to see visa at the Thai Police Clearance.

The fact that she is there illegaly will certianly be a huge factor. She has a child. That child is a citizen of another country. She and the child are without a doubt living there illegaly. She has been in jail twice for crimes. You have suggested twice she just walks into the poice station to see what happens. That is reckless in Thailand with what has happened. She may not come out again for a long time. Her boss bought her freedom last time. Why do you suppose they let her go?

The tricky thing about the police report is the fact she cant show anything they require to get one.

The huge deal for her is the child and the fact that she isnt a Thai citizen and neither is the child. The embassy will not grant them a visa under the circumstances the O P stated.

Complicated? Yes it certianly is.

[khwaidee1 196]

You may not have and I didnt but in at least 4 recent cases the police insisted on the USCs bio page.

Agreed, they requested that of my fiancee last month as well as a copy of the NOA2 and Packet 3 letter. Cost 50bht postage to mail it to her.

At the very least they will require:

"Requesting letter from the embassy of the country that the applicant plans to travel. A

notice from the US Embassy regarding your case (i.e. a packet 3 cover letter) can be

used for this purpose."