Pro Choice?????

[dalegg 143]

Fact: When abortion is illegal the same amount of abortions are performed as when it is legal.

Fact: More of them will be done poorly since the practice is not regulated and more women will die in the process. Especially if they attempt to do it themselves.

End result: When abortion is illegal, more women die or suffer severe physical consequences from a botched illegal abortion. Same amount of fetuses are terminated.

Source on these please.

I'd be interested to know what you think about this. Abortion is illegal in Ireland, but legal in the UK.

Abortion in Ireland

Abortion in the United Kingdom

Not suprised. So they go where it's legal. If abortion was legal in Canada in the 50s and 60s, U.S citizens probably would have gone there.

Without quoting specific figures it seems common-sense to me that there will be a demand for abortions, regardless of whether they are legal.

Here are some Statistics

Since being legalized the number of reported legal abortions per year more than doubled after the first 8 years of legalization.

I think it's common sense that most women would not be getting illegal unsafe abortions when legal options were available. At least it's illogical, so before I believe it, someone's going to have to produce data.

[Mandi+Ryan 1]

IMO, abortion is wrong. I can see where some cases people want to make it legal such as rape, or in this chicks case (maybe). But still, it is wrong. A child is a gift from God. There are many people that can't have children that would give anything for a baby. I don't care the case, I think adoption is STILL the best option. Someone in my area did that as well, same scenario, she got off scott-free.

[garya505 2]

I've seen children so badly abused by parents that didnt really want them but kept them because they felt they had to "take responsibilty for their actions" and that equated to keeping a child they didn't want as a penance for having sex.

I agree with everything you said, esp. this part. I think it's a bad idea for the government to treat pregnancy and childbirth as a woman's punishment for being a hussy and having sex.

The government isn't restricting abortion as punishment for anything. It's about the right to life of the fetus vs. the woman's right to terminate that life.

[mawilson 2,133]

The government isn't restricting abortion as punishment for anything. It's about the right to life of the fetus vs. the woman's right to terminate that life.

Why should a fetus have a right to anything? It's a goddamn FETUS, a piece of meat.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The government isn't restricting abortion as punishment for anything. It's about the right to life of the fetus vs. the woman's right to terminate that life.

Why should a fetus have a right to anything? It's a goddamn FETUS, a piece of meat.

The fetus does have some rights what some people can't understand is that the woman has more rights.

[Kez/JWolf 6]

Lots of people here are claiming a baby is a "Gift from God" well there are more people in this world who dont belive in a God than there is that do..... so its only a gift from god for some people....

Does that mean that people who dont belive in a God have to comply with your belives just because you belive it is wrong in gods eyes???

Kezzie

[Karen_L 1]

I've seen children so badly abused by parents that didnt really want them but kept them because they felt they had to "take responsibilty for their actions" and that equated to keeping a child they didn't want as a penance for having sex.

I agree with everything you said, esp. this part. I think it's a bad idea for the government to treat pregnancy and childbirth as a woman's punishment for being a hussy and having sex.

The government isn't restricting abortion as punishment for anything. It's about the right to life of the fetus vs. the woman's right to terminate that life.

I said that as a reaction to many sentiments expressed here, which have amounted to "Well, she made her bed (with ruffled, sweaty sex-sheets), and now she has to lie in it!" My argument was that, among many other reasons abortion should remain legal mentioned elsewhere, a government shouldn't also adopt that sort of position.

As I said before, I think it's impractical and absurd to expect the supreme court to seriously limit women's access to and decisions regarding their own bodies, especially after the right to do so has stood for more than 30 years now. It's a slippery and scary slope and it would open the door to further government control over an individual's person. Next it might be enforced birth control if a woman is deemed to have too many children, then it might be illegal to do certain things that put a pregnancy at risk, like smoke or drink coffee. Once you say that a fetus has rights equal to the right of a born person then it sets the stage for policies that go beyond merely the right to gestate and be born, but also the right to gestate under certain controlled conditions, which would further limit the mother's rights to... well... herself.

[Buttons 0]

You know, you don't HAVE to take a baby home with you from the hospital. She could have at least given birth and left it there, without getting into trouble. But instead she decided to end its life. In my opinion, that's unforgivable. She had no more right to kill that child than a stranger does.

She shot herself in the freakin' stomach. I don't think she was thinking rationally!

Of course she wasn't thinking rationally! But she had 9 months to "think" about what exactly she was going to do. Baby doesn't just pop up overnight leaving you with no time to plan and come up with a solution. NO excuse for what she did.

9 months of thinking to obviously cause even deeper mental issues. Have some compassion. I hope you never find yourself in a position where you feel you have no way out. People with mental issues caused for whatever reason, have no control over their thought pattern. They are not thinking rationally that is why they are called 'unstable' 'insane' etc. No-one here knows of the life this woman must of had or what was going on in her head. Jeeze.......to shoot yourself in the stomach to do this, this woman has some serious mental issues. This is tragic for all concerned.

Excellent, well wrote point !!!!!!!!!!!

[ace13 0]

there are more people in this world who dont belive in a God than there is that do..... so its only a gift from god for some people....

Kezzie

Not in this country, honey. 95% of Americans believe in God.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20...03338-8995r.htm

[no name 1]

Not in this country, honey. 95% of Americans believe in God.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20...03338-8995r.htm

BULLSH*T. Skewed results much?

The survey by Texas-based Baylor, the largest Baptist university in the world

not to mention such a small group, probably ALL ARE AT THE BAPTIST UNIVERSITY!

The survey of 1,721 adults was conducted Oct. 8 to Dec. 12

Perhaps a more impartial source:

http://www.livescience.com/othernews/05081...ntists_god.html

About two-thirds of scientists believe in God, according to a new survey that uncovered stark differences based on the type of research they do....

Nearly 38 percent of natural scientists -- people in disciplines like physics, chemistry and biology -- said they do not believe in God. Only 31 percent of the social scientists do not believe.

Edited October 26, 2006 by devilette

[ace13 0]

Not in this country, honey. 95% of Americans believe in God.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20...03338-8995r.htm

BULLSH*T. Skewed results much?

The survey by Texas-based Baylor, the largest Baptist university in the world

not to mention such a small group, probably ALL ARE AT THE BAPTIST UNIVERSITY!

The survey of 1,721 adults was conducted Oct. 8 to Dec. 12

Perhaps a more impartial source:

http://www.livescience.com/othernews/05081...ntists_god.html

About two-thirds of scientists believe in God, according to a new survey that uncovered stark differences based on the type of research they do....

Nearly 38 percent of natural scientists -- people in disciplines like physics, chemistry and biology -- said they do not believe in God. Only 31 percent of the social scientists do not believe.

thats funny. you seem to think you have a more impartial group in your source

google-americans believe in God and article after article you will see that America is truely one nation under GOD. We are believers, our country is founded on the belief in God and we were proud to proclaim it wherever we could-in our anthem, on our money, in our declaration of independance on our buildings in our presidential speeches, in inaugurations everywhere. You are greatly greatly mistaken if you think we are not belivers in God in this country.

Probably our greatest strength and greatest weakness for this proclaimation is that we are tolerant and welcoming in this country to those of all religions and beliefs based on the simple belief that that is how God would want it. He has blessed this country.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

there are more people in this world who dont belive in a God than there is that do..... so its only a gift from god for some people....

Kezzie

Not in this country, honey. 95% of Americans believe in God.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20...03338-8995r.htm

And Kezzie is wrong even in worldwide terms.

For practical purposes, you will not find an areligious person in India (though DMK and AIADMK did claim to be that originally, the latter stopped doing so after someone built a shrine to Marudur Ramachandran Tamil Nadu Chief Minister from 1977-1987; even Karunanidhi current DMK leader and Chief Minister is known to attend meetings by Revs. TGS and Paul Dinakaran). So, the balance of those who believe in a (or multiple) god(s) rises by 120 crore with just one country.

So you have:

• 30 crore * 95% = 28.5 crore (US)
  
• 120 crore (India)
  
• 17.5 crore (estimate for Pakistan)
  
• 15 crore (Bangladesh)
  
• 50 crore (SWAG for Africa, including tribal religions)
  
• 25 crore (SWAG for Latin America)
  
• 13 crore (SWAG for Muddle East)
  
• 40 crore for East and Southeast Asia except China
  

Even without including those of some religion in Europe, Canada and Australia, and my SWAG'ing the number is 309 crore (out of total world population of around 615 crore), a majority.

Edited October 26, 2006 by CherryXS

[Nizzy 1]

IMO, abortion is wrong. I can see where some cases people want to make it legal such as rape, or in this chicks case (maybe). But still, it is wrong. A child is a gift from God. There are many people that can't have children that would give anything for a baby. I don't care the case, I think adoption is STILL the best option. Someone in my area did that as well, same scenario, she got off scott-free.

You need to do some research on the adoption/foster care system in the US. Giving a child up for adoption does't neccessarily equal giving them a better life. There are some really horrid cases out there and I have had friends who have seen it up close. I think that abortion at an early stage should be allowed as long as the adoption and foster care system remains the way that it is. Children don't get adopted as easily as we would like to think and once they pass a certain age the chances of being adopted decrease. There are sickos out there who take in foster children just for the money that comes with it and the children end up living miserable lives full of abuse and neglect. While there are people out there who "would give anything for a baby" many would rather spend loads of money getting fertility treatments then turn to adoption. Or they just resort to adopting overseas, as is the latest trend.

[ace13 0]

IMO, abortion is wrong. I can see where some cases people want to make it legal such as rape, or in this chicks case (maybe). But still, it is wrong. A child is a gift from God. There are many people that can't have children that would give anything for a baby. I don't care the case, I think adoption is STILL the best option. Someone in my area did that as well, same scenario, she got off scott-free.

You need to do some research on the adoption/foster care system in the US. Giving a child up for adoption does't neccessarily equal giving them a better life. There are some really horrid cases out there and I have had friends who have seen it up close. I think that abortion at an early stage should be allowed as long as the adoption and foster care system remains the way that it is. Children don't get adopted as easily as we would like to think and once they pass a certain age the chances of being adopted decrease. There are sickos out there who take in foster children just for the money that comes with it and the children end up living miserable lives full of abuse and neglect. While there are people out there who "would give anything for a baby" many would rather spend loads of money getting fertility treatments then turn to adoption. Or they just resort to adopting overseas, as is the latest trend.

Killing babies will not solve the foster parent issue, welfare, homelessness, single-parent families, or neglect. Historically, I think it would be fair to say that since abortion has been legal, those things have gotten worse in this country.

If you study slavery, people said that getting rid of slavery would be bad for blacks and even torture because they said that blacks could not take care of themselves and were better off as slaves. They were wrong on that one, too.

Every life is precious from natural conception to natural death and deserves protection. Those that are most fragile-the young and old-who can not defend themselves, need the most protection.

[Jenn! 918]

Why are we talking about religion now? Oh yeah, I forgot, only believers in God have morals. The rest are baby killers.