Cincinatti Police chief on Open Carry of Firearns

[웃 910]

Property crimes do not involve firearms. You are safe walking the street here.

The crime rates are "per capita" which is beyond the comprehension of some people. If low population is the key to low crime, why it be addressed with a firearms law?

You are quoting a candidate in an electioon for Attorney General who is advertising himself.

Give me the name of a state that would not exchange crime rates with Vermont.

If everyone in Vermont took a long out-of-state vacation and everyone from Detroit invaded, but you kept Vermont's gun laws.

Do you think the crime rates would remain unchanged or would they skyrocket with a murder every day, hundreds of rapes, robberies, carjackings, and home invasions?

I would say Vermont would go from safest state in the country to one of the most dangerous in 1 night.

Why? Because it has little to do with gun laws.

[jasonofape 17]

That's why we need lasers.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'm pretty sure that past conventions forced people in public spaces to only protest in "1st amendment zones".

That makes sense because you can't have a meaningful convention if everyone is screaming over each other. There has to be order to who can speak and when.

But placing a gun ban around the perimeter of a convention whose party's platform is standing up for every law-abiding citizen's right to carry a firearm makes no sense, unless of course they actually believe that such bans are effective in securing the safety of those attending.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Republicans can't protect and defend themselves? They need big gubmint to do that? What a crowd!

So you think there will be any protection and security protocols at the Dem Convention ?

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Open carry is fairly useless IMO. Sure, it may prevent the person carrying from being a victim (not useless to that person) but what is far more effective is concealed carry and the more liberal the issuance of permits, the better. Themore potential carriers of firearms the lower the crime rate. It is not important that everyone carry a gun, only that everyone CAN. This is why Vermont has such a low crime rate, everyone CAN carry a gun. Not everyone does, they do not need to because no one knows who is and who is not. This means the liberal gun hater walking in Burlington at 2am enjoys a crime free neighborhood because I am carrying a concealed handgun, even if they are too stupid to know it. Ignorance is bliss.

You get it! Open carry gives away the best tactical advantage,the element of surprise.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So you think there will be any protection and security protocols at the Dem Convention?

If you answer my question, I'll entertain yours.

If everyone in Vermont took a long out-of-state vacation and everyone from Detroit invaded, but you kept Vermont's gun laws.

Do you think the crime rates would remain unchanged or would they skyrocket with a murder every day, hundreds of rapes, robberies, carjackings, and home invasions?

I would say Vermont would go from safest state in the country to one of the most dangerous in 1 night.

Why? Because it has little to do with gun laws.

What is this? Reason introduced in P&R? #######?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

If everyone in Vermont took a long out-of-state vacation and everyone from Detroit invaded, but you kept Vermont's gun laws.

Do you think the crime rates would remain unchanged or would they skyrocket with a murder every day, hundreds of rapes, robberies, carjackings, and home invasions?

I would say Vermont would go from safest state in the country to one of the most dangerous in 1 night.

Why? Because it has little to do with gun laws.

If frogs had wings.

What is wrong with people from Detroit? Please be specific on why they cannot handle freedom like Vermonters.

If you answer my question, I'll entertain yours.

What is this? Reason introduced in P&R? #######?

No, no reason here at all. What is the reason crime is higher in Detroit? Can either of you provide reason?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You get it! Open carry gives away the best tactical advantage,the element of surprise.

Yep, walk the streets in Burlington at 2am and a certain number of people are armed and prepared to kill anyone that threatens them or even nearby innocent victims. Who? Which ones are armed? There is one way to find out. But no one seems game. The risk/reward paradigm is completely different than other areas, perhaps even Detroit.

[웃 910]

If frogs had wings.

What is wrong with people from Detroit? Please be specific on why they cannot handle freedom like Vermonters.

No, no reason here at all. What is the reason crime is higher in Detroit? Can either of you provide reason?

The first two big ones are they tend to be very poor and uneducated.

That leads to a completely different mindset and lifestyle.

Later you have a huge involvement in drugs and gangs and violent activities, very high unemployment.

You are really not expected to live past 25 if you are a true "G".

Oh, very high incarceration rates and this huge revolving door back into prison where they get worse, not better.

Horrible influences every way you turn. Just to name a few.

[slim 1,519]

I believe this is the guy on the Phoenix University commecial.

Yep, that's our new chief. One of the most recognizable changes to the department is they went from wearing white shirts to wearing navy blue. Many think it's because we have a black chief and it's symbolic of getting rid of the white that's been so prevalent in that department for so many years but to anyone who's been out in the field for any amount of time, they'll tell you - coffee and donut stains are hard to get out of white shirts.

Maybe it is symbolic. If not racial, the implication is there's an immediate change and that change is about working. Someone who wears a white shirt is trying to present an image and look a certain way. Someone who wears a dark blue shirt is there to work.

I believe Chief Craig is "working" to clean up Cincinnati and also working on race relations. This city's had a horrible time with both issues in the past and is finally starting to come around. A big part of that is presenting the PD as "working" people and not the authoritative "masters" they've been in the past. They're no longer in charge of us in their nice white shirts. They're working class people just like the rest of us and they're here to help.

We're due to get a new Sheriff this year too. I'm guessing with directives like the one on Open Carry issued by Chief Craig we'll see a shift in policy by the Sheriff's Office as well. They've always worn dark uniforms (dark brown or black over gray) and always had kind of a heavy hand towards city folk who venture out into the county. That will likely change as the new Sheriff will partner more with the city (due to budget constraints) and we'll see everyone treated more like a county resident than a city resident.

... and one step closer to being treated like a citizen!

I understand and support the right, but from a tactical standpoint it is the height of stupidity. You lose the element of suprise, you draw all kind of unwanted attention to yourself, possibly provoking a confrontation. I alwasy see people that do that as needing some kind of ego boost, because it is certainly can't be supported in with safety and self defense arguments from any credible source.

The police themselves are the credible source you seek. They open carry all day long and unprovoked attacks on them are rare.

Personally, I OC when I want folks to know I'm not playing around. I am not an easy target. I've had people approach me at the gas station and literally say, "Oh, wow. You have a gun. See ya." I don't want them to even consider trying something. Did I know what they wanted? No! I don't care because obviously it wasn't important enough for them to "risk" talking to someone who was armed. It couldn't have been something respectable and good because anyone who is respectable and good wouldn't mind talking to someone with a gun. Only someone with an ulterior motive will turn away from an armed individual.

Same goes for meeting people to do face-to-face deals. (Craigslist, etc.) I WANT them to know I have a gun. I'm not an easy target and if they were thinking about attempting to roll me, they now have to think about how to roll away from 15 .45 hollow points as well. I think it's really stupid to tell a complete stranger you'll meet them with several hundred (or thousand) dollars and then "surprise" them if they try something. I don't want them to try anything - I want to set the tone of the encounter from the very start. I am not an easy target.

While I'm not downplaying the importance of surprise in any encounter I am suggesting you guys have missed the mark with the tactical importance of openly displaying a strong defense.

It is not important that everyone carry a gun, only that everyone CAN. This is why Vermont has such a low crime rate, everyone CAN carry a gun.

Completely false. Everyone in Cincinnati CAN carry a gun - legally or otherwise.

We don't have the crime rate we have because everyone CAN carry a gun. We have the crime rate we have because of WHO carries a gun. Same as Vermont.

I think we should all go back to strapping a 6 shooter to our leg just like the days of the wild west. No automatics.... just revolvers..

Contrary to popular belief, shootings were pretty uncommon in the "wild west." Places like Cincinnati had much higher murder rates than places like Tombstone.

You get it! Open carry gives away the best tactical advantage,the element of surprise.

Complete BS.

Whenever I'm standing next to my Jeep with my .45 sticking out and people walk wide circles around me I've instantly placed them at a disadvantage. They know they're outmatched and they know I'm not an easy target. Whenever I "surprise" them with my .45 tucked into my trousers, we're on equal footing for a few brief seconds.

I understand the whole "go for the guy with the gun" aspect. But that's not present when there's the option of "go for the guy WITHOUT the gun" because I am the guy with the gun.

You don't have to outrun the bear... only your buddy.

What is wrong with people from Detroit? Please be specific on why they cannot handle freedom like Vermonters.

...What is the reason crime is higher in Detroit? Can either of you provide reason?

(cut for brevity) Government Intervention is what's wrong with Detroit.

When you've had 50 years of democrats, Detroit is what you end up with.

The first two big ones are they tend to be very poor and uneducated.

That leads to a completely different mindset and lifestyle.

Later you have a huge involvement in drugs and gangs and violent activities, very high unemployment.

You are really not expected to live past 25 if you are a true "G".

Oh, very high incarceration rates and this huge revolving door back into prison where they get worse, not better.

Horrible influences every way you turn. Just to name a few.

I call BS on this one too.

Every single adult person in the world knows what's right and wrong. If they CHOOSE not to do what's right, they end up like those in Detroit. Just because "everybody's doing it" doesn't make it right. Just because the government gives you a free ride doesn't make it right.

It's time for us to stop letting folks get away with this #######. Hold them accountable for their own actions. As Gary's said, "Why can't they handle freedom?"

I believe they can!

[웃 910]

I call BS on this one too.

Every single adult person in the world knows what's right and wrong. If they CHOOSE not to do what's right, they end up like those in Detroit. Just because "everybody's doing it" doesn't make it right. Just because the government gives you a free ride doesn't make it right.

It's time for us to stop letting folks get away with this #######. Hold them accountable for their own actions. As Gary's said, "Why can't they handle freedom?"

I believe they can!

If you are born into a radical Islamic family you will be a radical Muslim.

If you are born into a family of gangbangers the odds are you will look up to "your bro" and be a gangbanger.

If your 2 older brothers and 2 older sisters all became doctors....you'll probably be a doctor too.

If your dad and older brother are hillbillies...guess what you will be?

[slim 1,519]

If you are born into a radical Islamic family you will be a radical Muslim.

If you are born into a family of gangbangers the odds are you will look up to "your bro" and be a gangbanger.

If your 2 older brothers and 2 older sisters all became doctors....you'll probably be a doctor too.

If your dad and older brother are hillbillies...guess what you will be?

You'll be whatever you choose to be. Nobody is forced into anything. And nobody gets a free pass. Just because your peers are bad people doesn't mean I feel sorry for you for choosing to be a bad person too. You're a bad person. Deal with the repercussions of that.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The first two big ones are they tend to be very poor and uneducated.

That leads to a completely different mindset and lifestyle.

Later you have a huge involvement in drugs and gangs and violent activities, very high unemployment.

You are really not expected to live past 25 if you are a true "G".

Oh, very high incarceration rates and this huge revolving door back into prison where they get worse, not better.

Horrible influences every way you turn. Just to name a few.

We have poor people in Vermont, they do not commit crime.

We have the highest level of abuse of prescription narcotics and are a portal for drug importation, and have little crime

Our life expectancy is 79 years

Name more...those don't work.

None of those are addressed with firerms restrictions unless you think restricting firearms can make people wealthy, give them jobs, end problems with drugs and gangs.

Keep trying.

Why would the population of Detroit have a higher crime rate than the population of Vermont if they had the same gun laws?

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Complete BS.

Whenever I'm standing next to my Jeep with my .45 sticking out and people walk wide circles around me I've instantly placed them at a disadvantage. They know they're outmatched and they know I'm not an easy target. Whenever I "surprise" them with my .45 tucked into my trousers, we're on equal footing for a few brief seconds.

I understand the whole "go for the guy with the gun" aspect. But that's not present when there's the option of "go for the guy WITHOUT the gun" because I am the guy with the gun.

You don't have to outrun the bear... only your buddy.

No what you do is draw attention to yourself like a neon sign. Your making your gun the focus of both good and bad attetion from everyone that can see you. What you look like standing by your jeep with your gun on your side is an a poorly trained attention hog, who is inviting all kinds of things he may not want to come his way. If you think a bunch of geeked up thugs armed to the teeth are going tuck and run when they see you in your pointy toed cowboy boots with your clock strapped to your side your nuts. Your going to get the first round between the eyes as soon as the draw their concealed weapon and you will never see it coming.

The idea is to blend in to your surroundings and surprise your opponent. Not stick out like neon sign...There is a reason Sky Marshals fly in plain clothes.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Run Herschel Run

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

If you are born into a radical Islamic family you will be a radical Muslim.

If you are born into a family of gangbangers the odds are you will look up to "your bro" and be a gangbanger.

If your 2 older brothers and 2 older sisters all became doctors....you'll probably be a doctor too.

If your dad and older brother are hillbillies...guess what you will be?

either a Florida Gator or a Democrat. I give which ?