New Immigration Policy Controversy in Arizona

[JMH 21]

Just being in the state legally doesn't grant every state benefit and I listed a few examples. You repeated your statement though, so I'll give a few more. I'm here legally, and I'm a citizen, and I'm even serving in our military. There are some state (and federal) benefits I can't receive because I earned too much, or I'm not old enough, or I wasn't married. Does it make me angry? Not really. Is it a punishment or form of discrimination? Surely not!

Your specific problem seems to be with driver's licenses and taxing earnings from working here legally. I'll address that now. They are now legally allowed to get jobs, and pay taxes. A driver's license doesn't 'enable', or entitle them to a job. It's a benefit for which they still do not qualify for in the state of Arizona. As has been said before, each state has their own requirements for getting one. It would be illegal discrimination if Arizona refused to recognise another state granting them a driver's license though. That's not what we're doing at all. Also, something I did not know before getting an Arizona driver's license for myself is, they are valid for 50 years! An Arizona driver's license is valid for 50 years! As this program is only for 2 years, can we really issue them that? No, we can't. If we tried to grant them a license for less than our standard 50 year license (say 2 years), I'm thinking that would be called discrimination also. . .

Oh, about this: "The Executive Order was a message from the POTUS to Congress indicating they should put aside their partisanship and work together. If he were pandering he would have exec ordered the entire Dream Act, instead of this temporary and limited measure." It wasn't because he wanted to send a message that he wanted to work together. It was because the Dream Act failed to pass the vote, because it was unpopular! He used a temporary, limited measure because it's all he could get away with because his policy can't pass a real vote.

[Boiler 46,125]

EAD's do not prove legal status.

[DaveE 178]

This seems like another toothless law. AZ has and will accept EADs as a primary ID, so unless the federal government gives out specially marked EADs indicating that they are on deferred action how will the DMV even know?

They will know exact immigration status when they run the card through the SAVE database. They just don't accept EAD cards, they verify that they are real.

[JohnR! 5,495]

EAD's do not prove legal status.

Apparently, in Arizona, nothing does..... :rofl:

Edited August 29, 2012 by Gegel

[JohnR! 5,495]

Just being in the state legally doesn't grant every state benefit and I listed a few examples. You repeated your statement though, so I'll give a few more. I'm here legally, and I'm a citizen, and I'm even serving in our military. There are some state (and federal) benefits I can't receive because I earned too much, or I'm not old enough, or I wasn't married. Does it make me angry? Not really. Is it a punishment or form of discrimination? Surely not!

Your specific problem seems to be with driver's licenses and taxing earnings from working here legally. I'll address that now. They are now legally allowed to get jobs, and pay taxes. A driver's license doesn't 'enable', or entitle them to a job. It's a benefit for which they still do not qualify for in the state of Arizona. As has been said before, each state has their own requirements for getting one. It would be illegal discrimination if Arizona refused to recognise another state granting them a driver's license though. That's not what we're doing at all. Also, something I did not know before getting an Arizona driver's license for myself is, they are valid for 50 years! An Arizona driver's license is valid for 50 years! As this program is only for 2 years, can we really issue them that? No, we can't. If we tried to grant them a license for less than our standard 50 year license (say 2 years), I'm thinking that would be called discrimination also. . .

I understand what you say about the benefits, and I agree. I simply think it is pandering that Brewer felt the need to pass legislation to impede these kids from obtaining any benefits. It would be fair to say she expects them to pay no taxes while in her state, but somehow I don't think that is the case.

The issue is that when someone is denied any benefits just because the governor of the State feels the need to play games with the Federal Government, that is petty, but extremely politically expeditious.

I don't dispute Jen's power to do so, so much as I dispute the nature of her actions and quite frankly, the integrity of her character.

[Que Saudade 284]

This seems like another toothless law. AZ has and will accept EADs as a primary ID, so unless the federal government gives out specially marked EADs indicating that they are on deferred action how will the DMV even know?

In Arizona, which passed one of the nation's toughest anti-immigration laws, Gov. Jan Brewer signed an executive order Wednesday directing state agencies to deny driver's licenses and other public benefits to illegal immigrants who obtain work authorizations under a new federal program.

Ummm, stating here if they obtain EAD under the deferred action, they have been ordered to DENY driver's license. I am not even going to argue the other public benefits as there are no specific ones quoted. But it is quite clear, if you obtain EAD through deferred action, you WILL be denied access to DL in the state of Arizona.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Que Saudade

[DaveE 178]

I understand what you say about the benefits, and I agree. I simply think it is pandering that Brewer felt the need to pass legislation to impede these kids from obtaining any benefits. It would be fair to say she expects them to pay no taxes while in her state, but somehow I don't think that is the case.

The issue is that when someone is denied any benefits just because the governor of the State feels the need to play games with the Federal Government, that is petty, but extremely politically expeditious.

I don't dispute Jen's power to do so, so much as I dispute the nature of her actions and quite frankly, the integrity of her character.

Why are they referred to as "kids", when they can be 30 years old? Jan Brewer is doing what she said she would do. If her electorate doesn't like it they will replace her.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Why are they referred to as "kids", when they can be 30 years old? Jan Brewer is doing what she said she would do. If her electorate doesn't like it they will replace her.

As is President Obama, hence his signing the exec order... Are both right then?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

They will know exact immigration status when they run the card through the SAVE database. They just don't accept EAD cards, they verify that they are real.

How much info are they given? I personally don't know - though I am aware that DMVs have limited access.

[DaveE 178]

As is President Obama, hence his signing the exec order... Are both right then?

Absolutely - and the electorate will decide on both.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

This seems like another toothless law. AZ has and will accept EADs as a primary ID, so unless the federal government gives out specially marked EADs indicating that they are on deferred action how will the DMV even know?

The document will be verified with the DHS before the DMV will issue a verified ID or DL. If the DHS comes back saying "no lawful presence, for DACA use only", then no permanent state lawful presence document will be issued.

[DaveE 178]

How much info are they given? I personally don't know - though I am aware that DMVs have limited access.

In podunk Georgia, they knew my wife had arrived on a K1 Visa. The lady asked me what a K1 was. They also found an error, and refused her drivers license until her Green Card arrived. They would not let me look at the screen, but that was the first time I had ever heard of the SAVE data base.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

fruit of the poisoned tree, see blackstone.

http://edmichaels.hu...into-Blackstone

Errr, what does this have to do with Fourth Amendment violations?

[rocks 494]

In podunk Georgia, they knew my wife had arrived on a K1 Visa. The lady asked me what a K1 was. They also found an error, and refused her drivers license until her Green Card arrived. They would not let me look at the screen, but that was the first time I had ever heard of the SAVE data base.

In MS I had to have a GC to get my DL too.

[Que Saudade 284]

Why are they referred to as "kids", when they can be 30 years old? Jan Brewer is doing what she said she would do. If her electorate doesn't like it they will replace her.

Kids referring to the the time period of their lives when they entered the US.

They had to enter the United States before reaching their 16th birthday... Hence the referral to the term "kids".