Same Work, Different Paycheck

[mawilson 2,133]

None of you have known of a man and woman doing the same job and getting paid less?

Of course. How about a man and a man doing the same job and getting paid differently? Or two women?

There's no rule that says that any two people should get the same paycheck for the same job.

[rocks 494]

Of course. How about a man and a man doing the same job and getting paid differently? Or two women?

There's no rule that says that any two people should get the same paycheck for the same job.

Read the links in my later post.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Overall, there are many factors to take into account. As previously mentioned, women have children. As a result some can only work in part time employment, many of these women have menial jobs. They also will not receive benefits etc. So yes, they may generally earn less. If you read about the Lilly Ledbetter vs Goodyear case, you will see that this is an issue for men and women working in the same job.

Ledbetter v. Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co.

Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009

On a side note, Paul Ryan voted against the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act.

Again, it's a single case. I don't know Lilly Ledbetter and I don't know whether her evaluations were discriminatory or not. What I do know having worked in Corporate America for many years in positions managing staff and writing evaluations and making decisions on merit increases and such is that there is no corporate level gender discrimination going on in this country and that corporations do, in fact, punish severely those that let their judgement be driven by factors such as gender, race, sexual orientation and whatnot. I know that evaluations are done based on the specific performance of the employee against the individual, departmental and corporate goals, that such evaluations have to be substantiated and that there is no tolerance whatsoever for any kind of discrimination. I also know that underperforming staff likes to challenge evaluations rather than themselves. And I know that there are plenty of lawyers out there itching to sue corporations for they know that there's always a good chance of a settlement whether their cases have any merit or not.

Sorry but my personal experience in the corporate world simply does not support what's being alleged here.

[rocks 494]

Again, it's a single case. I don't know Lilly Ledbetter and I don't know whether her evaluations were discriminatory or not. What I do know having worked in Corporate America for many years in positions managing staff and writing evaluations and making decisions on merit increases and such is that there is no corporate level gender discrimination going on in this country and that corporations do, in fact, punish severely those that let their judgement be driven by factors such as gender, race, sexual orientation and whatnot. I know that evaluations are done based on the specific performance of the employee against the individual, departmental and corporate goals, that such evaluations have to be substantiated and that there is no tolerance whatsoever for any kind of discrimination. I also know that underperforming staff likes to challenge evaluations rather than themselves. And I know that there are plenty of lawyers out there itching to sue corporations for they know that there's always a good chance of a settlement whether their cases have any merit or not.

Sorry but my personal experience in the corporate world simply does not support what's being alleged here.

As far as you are concerned, any lawsuit that involves a corporation being accused of discrimination is purely down to under-performing and there is no case? Do you think that of all these women?

Walmart Sex Discrimination Claims Filed By 2,000 Women

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

As far as you are concerned, any lawsuit that involves a corporation being accused of discrimination is purely down to under-performing and there is no case?

Did I say that? I haven't worked at Walmart and don't know what their practices are. I've spoken about my personal experience in corporate America and that personal experience does not support the claim that there's systemic gender discrimination going on. Now, is it possible that there are corporations out there where gender or other discrimination is tolerated or part of the corporate culture even? Yes, that's possible. And if that happens to be the case, then by all means, we ought to do what can be done to stop it. For the record, I have no problem with the LLFP Act.

All that said, the thread started with the claim that women in America get paid 77% of a man's pay for the same work. And that claim is simply false.

[rocks 494]

Did I say that? I haven't worked at Walmart and don't know what their practices are. I've spoken about my personal experience in corporate America and that personal experience does not support the claim that there's systemic gender discrimination going on. Now, is it possible that there are corporations out there where gender or other discrimination is tolerated or part of the corporate culture even? Yes, that's possible. And if that happens to be the case, then by all means, we ought to do what can be done to stop it. For the record, I have no problem with the LLFP Act.

All that said, the thread started with the claim that women in America get paid 77% of a man's pay for the same work. And that claim is simply false.

there is no corporate level gender discrimination going on in this country

underperforming staff likes to challenge evaluations rather than themselves.

Sorry but my personal experience in the corporate world simply does not support what's being alleged here.

I agree that under performers would like to blame anything and anyone but themselves. I know you're smart and that you wouldn't agree with discrimination, that's why I was a little confused by the above statements. Thanks for the clarification.

As I said in an earlier post, there are many other factors that are involved in why women get paid less. This doesn't mean there aren't unfair pay issues within the workplace. Unfortunately this is impossible to present facts and figures for, so this percentage of 77% is the only way they can present the issue. It does seem like a weak attempt to get women to vote for them, as a woman I feel it would be better to concentrate on rights for women's health than this.

Edited August 22, 2012 by rocks

[M_&_R 77]

Same goes for the gender gap - if you compare apples to apples you will find that men and women are compensated equally.

I'm a female working in technology. There's a gap. http://www.aauw.org/learn/research/upload/stem_data.pdf

I agree the calculation without regard to actual job performed makes little sense. But that doesn't mean that a gap does not in fact exist.

M

[M_&_R 77]

Did I say that? I haven't worked at Walmart and don't know what their practices are. I've spoken about my personal experience in corporate America and that personal experience does not support the claim that there's systemic gender discrimination going on. Now, is it possible that there are corporations out there where gender or other discrimination is tolerated or part of the corporate culture even? Yes, that's possible. And if that happens to be the case, then by all means, we ought to do what can be done to stop it. For the record, I have no problem with the LLFP Act.

All that said, the thread started with the claim that women in America get paid 77% of a man's pay for the same work. And that claim is simply false.

I'm glad to hear that in your experience this isn't a problem. That's progress. But your personal experience doesn't mean there isn't a gap, any more than others' personal experience means there *is* one - you argued that yourself, that one person's evidence can't be generalized to the population as a whole. Yours can't either, although it's great that yours is better than others'.

Again, I agree that the original stat is flawed. And even in the doc I posted, the numbers can be skewed by the top percent or two, who are likely to be male because women simply haven't had as much time on the playing field to get to that point.

However, I disagree that there is no gap at all. I think that's a little bit myopic.

M

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I'm glad to hear that in your experience this isn't a problem. That's progress. But your personal experience doesn't mean there isn't a gap, any more than others' personal experience means there *is* one - you argued that yourself, that one person's evidence can't be generalized to the population as a whole. Yours can't either, although it's great that yours is better than others'.

Again, I agree that the original stat is flawed. And even in the doc I posted, the numbers can be skewed by the top percent or two, who are likely to be male because women simply haven't had as much time on the playing field to get to that point.

However, I disagree that there is no gap at all. I think that's a little bit myopic.

M

Okay, I'll concede that my view might be incorrect based on the specific experience I have had in the workplace where there's no gender or other discrimination that I could detect. I have said just a post or two ago that I am in full agreement that any such discrimination ought to be addressed and eliminated wherever it exists. If LLFP Act does that or just gets us closer to the elimination of gender discrimination then - yay!

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

This is a rather good post on the Department of Labor's site about mythbusting the gender pay gap: http://social.dol.gov/blog/myth-busting-the-pay-gap/

The gender gap IS real, even stripping out things like part-time work, work sector, etc which are often thrown out as canards in this discussion.

[rocks 494]

This is a rather good post on the Department of Labor's site about mythbusting the gender pay gap: http://social.dol.gov/blog/myth-busting-the-pay-gap/

The gender gap IS real, even stripping out things like part-time work, work sector, etc which are often thrown out as canards in this discussion.

Good article, thanks.

[mawilson 2,133]

This is a rather good post on the Department of Labor's site about mythbusting the gender pay gap: http://social.dol.gov/blog/myth-busting-the-pay-gap/

The gender gap IS real, even stripping out things like part-time work, work sector, etc which are often thrown out as canards in this discussion.

That web site admits that 60% of the gap is explained by differences between male and female workers and their jobs.

60 percent - that's huge! So the real gap is not 23 cents but 9.2 cents due to discrimination alone. That's more realistic.

[rocks 494]

That web site admits that 60% of the gap is explained by differences between male and female workers and their jobs.

60 percent - that's huge! So the real gap is not 23 cents but 9.2 cents due to discrimination alone. That's more realistic.

Are you OK with the gap, regardless of the size?

[웃 910]

Female strippers and pornstars make an obscenely higher amount of money than their male counterparts.

"Males generally earn less than female porn stars, and the average male gets around $300 – $400 per scene. Beginner usually get between $100 to $200 per scene.

Per scene, for a female porn star the rates usually range between $250 up to $3000 per scene.

The average male porn star earns around $40,000 per year

A full-time female porn star will usually take home around $100,000 per year, but can easily make up to $250,000 per year. This isn't including extras such as appearances, signings, and strip shows."

http://adulttalentag...festyle-salary/

Edited August 22, 2012 by ☠

[mawilson 2,133]

Are you OK with the gap, regardless of the size?

I'm ok with a 9 cent gap. I'd pay 9 cents more to a guy just so I don't have to hear a woman yap all day long.