US State Dept defines Israeli settler violence as terrorism

[rocks 494]

Again - I never mentioned slavery, nor did I imply that there was a parallel to slavery in Israel. I am saying there are parallels between how Palestinians ("Israeli Arabs") are treated in Israel, and how blacks were treated during the Jim Crow era. This is what I said:

You mentioned Jim Crow, a result of slavery. Not sure how many times I have to repeat this to you? This is a terrible comparison.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

You mentioned Jim Crow, a result of slavery. Not sure how many times I have to repeat this to you? This is a terrible comparison.

You can repeat yourself as many times as you like

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Again - I never mentioned slavery, nor did I imply that there was a parallel to slavery in Israel. I am saying there are parallels between how Palestinians ("Israeli Arabs") are treated in Israel, and how blacks were treated during the Jim Crow era. This is what I said:

So how do you distinguish between the two groups?

I noticed an artist had two children be given the same haircut and I can't tell the difference...the notion being that they are no different from one another.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Sousuke

[rocks 494]

You can repeat yourself as many times as you like

But you won't admit you're wrong?

You cherrypick and that just doesn't work. This thread reminds me of the Northern Ireland thread.

Edited August 23, 2012 by rocks

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

So how do you distinguish between the two groups?

I noticed an artist had two children be given the same haircut and I can't tell the difference...the notion being that they are no different from one another.

As children, they probably share the same innocence when they are born. But as they get older, the outward perspective changes. And, yeah, Israeli intelligence has no problem inserting agents that pose as Arabs that go undetected and perhaps, the Arabs can do the same.

Edited August 23, 2012 by The Patriot

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

So how do you distinguish between the two groups?

Distinguish between Jews and Palestinians in Israel ? Well, most self-identify - most people are proud of their heritage. There are also obvious name markers and cues from religious clothing or rituals, as well as the national ID cards which contain further identifying markers such as father's name, address, etc. (Most neighborhoods and even some towns are segregated, and if you're a local, you know which ones are "Arab" or "Jewish" areas.) Certainly some Palestinians can "pass" for Jewish, and some Jews can "pass" for Palestinian (of course some Jews are of Arab origin and are native Arabic speakers) but the ruse would fall apart quickly if they happened to be arrested. (You may remember the case of the Palestinian guy who was convicted of "rape by deceit" because he had consensual sex with a Jewish woman while claiming to be Jewish.)

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Distinguish between Jews and Palestinians in Israel ? Well, most self-identify - most people are proud of their heritage. There are also obvious name markers and cues from religious clothing or rituals, as well as the national ID cards which contain further identifying markers such as father's name, address, etc. (Most neighborhoods and even some towns are segregated, and if you're a local, you know which ones are "Arab" or "Jewish" areas.) Certainly some Palestinians can "pass" for Jewish, and some Jews can "pass" for Palestinian (of course some Jews are of Arab origin and are native Arabic speakers) but the ruse would fall apart quickly if they happened to be arrested. (You may remember the case of the Palestinian guy who was convicted of "rape by deceit" because he had consensual sex with a Jewish woman while claiming to be Jewish.)

How do I put this...I think the American situation is more rudimentary then..more basic. Discrimination is based on genetics. This is an issue where discrimination is based on ideas and history.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Sousuke

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

How do I put this...I think the American situation is more rudimentary then..more basic. Discrimination is based on genetics. This is an issue where discrimination is based on ideas and history.

Well it's much more complicated than that. Genetics are a big part of it, although not 100%. But simply believing in Judaism is not enough to be considered "Jewish," and simply not believing in Judaism is not enough to be considered "not Jewish." Read up on Halakhic law.

[rocks 494]

I thought the blood line of the mother determined whether you were Jewish or not.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Well it's much more complicated than that. Genetics are a big part of it, although not 100%. But simply believing in Judaism is not enough to be considered "Jewish," and simply not believing in Judaism is not enough to be considered "not Jewish." Read up on Halakhic law.

I actually said the opposite. IE. American situation - genetics. Israel situation - ideas and history.

Its more like two families fighting because the relation is fairly close.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Sousuke

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I actually said the opposite. IE. American situation - genetics. Israel situation - ideas and history.

Its more like two families fighting because the relation is fairly close.

Well I understand what you're trying to say, but again, it's more complicated than that. It's not "ideas" that determine if you are considered Jewish in Israel (nor if you are considered Palestinian) - it's "history" in terms of your genealogical history. Yes, there are a small number of conversions to Judaism which are accepted and approved under Halakhic law, but it's a tiny number.

The issue of genetic markers shared between the two groups is a very interesting study, but again not a simple issue (genetics never are.)

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Actually the more accurate historical parallel would be the Native Americans....

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Actually the more accurate historical parallel would be the Native Americans....

Yes, there are also some parallels to what happened to Native Americans. They were also called "savages," and their violent resistance to being colonialized and dispossessed was considered the equivalent of terrorism back in the day. It was also said to be "justified" to deny them their rights.

The Western world keeps professing to have moved on from such primitive ideas about indigenous people in their own land...

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Actually the more accurate historical parallel would be the Native Americans....

Just like the Argentinians and what they are trying to do to the Falkland Islanders.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Just like the Argentinians and what they are trying to do to the Falkland Islanders.

Argentina is trying to ethnically cleanse the indigenous Falkland Islanders ?