Congress may be divided on Immigration, but Americans are not

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

Look at him-there he goes...see how excited he gets! Can we count how many times federal and crime appear in his posts? He's a prime example of the ignorance that refuses to accept the reality that (gasp) not every illegal is a drug trafficker or an ID stealer!!

so as long as they are not moving drugs or committing identity theft, they are ok then?

I didn't say they were ok Charles. Just like you didn't say that none of them pay taxes. Let's not keep the mixing up each other's words game...and just get real here.

you've ardently defended illegals so much before that they must be ok.

To say that an illegal will automatically by default commit other crimes is like saying I, because I will speed home tonight from work, should also go ahead and run the red light, do a hit and run, and have a couple of drinks on the way. It's illogical.

not necessarily. it's not that much of a leap in logic to assume that if one breaks laws just to get here, that they won't stop doing so. or do you have on rose colored glasses when you make statements like that above?

[Traviesa 0]

You must have missed this post:

Ok I want to do it too-

I'm white, female, with a Bachelor's Degree, and I love a previously-illegal alien. However, I do not support people coming to the country illegally, even if they walk entirely upright while here, they have still committed a crime (I grasped that reality). I also think the punishment should fit the crime, and I think 10 years is a really long time. However, I think the Waiver system is a good system for those who might have specific ties to this country, and I don't necessarily think that it should be made easier, but at the same time I wouldn't complain if we could pay $2,000 instead of filing it. As for a solution to the problem, I would probably be really upset if they fast-tracked all the illegals currently here to citizenship and did nothing for the ones who were caught, at the same time I think a wall is not the answer and that it's a shameful waste of time and money.

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

You must have missed this post:

Ok I want to do it too-

I'm white, female, with a Bachelor's Degree, and I love a previously-illegal alien. However, I do not support people coming to the country illegally, even if they walk entirely upright while here, they have still committed a crime (I grasped that reality). I also think the punishment should fit the crime, and I think 10 years is a really long time. However, I think the Waiver system is a good system for those who might have specific ties to this country, and I don't necessarily think that it should be made easier, but at the same time I wouldn't complain if we could pay $2,000 instead of filing it. As for a solution to the problem, I would probably be really upset if they fast-tracked all the illegals currently here to citizenship and did nothing for the ones who were caught, at the same time I think a wall is not the answer and that it's a shameful waste of time and money.

ok, who are you and what did you do with miss liss?

[Traviesa 0]

not necessarily. it's not that much of a leap in logic to assume that if one breaks laws just to get here, that they won't stop doing so. or do you have on rose colored glasses when you make statements like that above?

And again, this all comes down to them not all being the same. You claim to accept that there are many faces to illegal aliens, but you still continuously refer to them as "they" or "them." They're not all the same-I'm not sure how many times I have to say this.

You must have missed this post:

Ok I want to do it too-

I'm white, female, with a Bachelor's Degree, and I love a previously-illegal alien. However, I do not support people coming to the country illegally, even if they walk entirely upright while here, they have still committed a crime (I grasped that reality). I also think the punishment should fit the crime, and I think 10 years is a really long time. However, I think the Waiver system is a good system for those who might have specific ties to this country, and I don't necessarily think that it should be made easier, but at the same time I wouldn't complain if we could pay $2,000 instead of filing it. As for a solution to the problem, I would probably be really upset if they fast-tracked all the illegals currently here to citizenship and did nothing for the ones who were caught, at the same time I think a wall is not the answer and that it's a shameful waste of time and money.

ok, who are you and what did you do with miss liss?

Is it really so hard to believe that someone might not agree with something but still understand it?

[Addie_Goodvibes 0]

Charles as much as I would love to sit here and piss around with you all day. I actually have a job interview in less than an hour that I need to prepare for. Thanks for the entertainment this morning though. You helped keep my mind off of it so I wouldn't be so stressed out and nervous. Maybe it will still be going when I get back and you can then help keep my mind off whether I tanked the interview or not.

By the way, I never said I know everything about illegal immigration either. Just more than you.

well good for you. a job interview. come back when you're ready to back up some of that about you knowing so much about illegal immigration. study up on the economic impact

Thats seems like a fair solution, higher tax rate, however I think they should be punished for commiting crime. Made to go through the process legally FROM their own country from which they entered the USA ILLEGALLY !

Commiting Federal crimes, ID theft, Fraud, drug trafficking, driving & working Illegally. If a USC or legal resident was convicted of these crimes there would be jail time.

Why should Illegal ALiens be treated any differently!

Here's the one I always see this stuff from. This one gets very excited about it "CRIMINAL FEDERAL CRIMES" and such other lovely phrases that are completely ridiculous I see from this one. This is also the one who loves to just lump them all together-ID theft, drug trafficking...they all do that, eh?

considering that no one said "criminal federal crimes" i'm lost on what your point is

Ok lets ASSUME that the only crime they commit is entering the USA ILLEGALLY ( as if)

what do they do after entering ILLEGALLY? Just lurk around the country? No, they obtain work illegally, they drive illegally, they take advantage of GOVT. /State benefits meant for legal residents/ & USC,

a large majority of them commit fraud, drive w/ out insurance or liscense,traffic drugs, commit violents criminal acts and are never held accountable.

Most of the above crimes if commited by USC/ or legal resident or legal visitors would be punsihable by jail time, if a tourist or visitor on commited any of these crimes and is found out,would be deported and then banned for 5-10 years. No questions asked.

So why then should ILLEGAL ALIENS who ENTER THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY be allowed to stay, and in addition be given privialiages that not even legal visitors get, why should these ILLEGAL FEDERAL CRIMINAL ALIENS be granted any benefit or leniancy?Why shoul Illegal ALiens be allowed to drive illegally, allowed to obtain work w/out authorization when majority in this forum have to wait for their EAD card pay hundreds of $$ and survive on limmited income while going through the process Legally , WHY SHOULD legal Applicants have to pay for ILLEGAL ALIENS.

They are Federal criminals once they cross the border Illegally,

They have commited a federal crime once they submit a false SS# or ID to obtain employment Illegally.

They have commited Federal crime if they fail to accuratly report their income to the IRS. or fail to pay Income tax.

They steal from legal residents ( the elderly, and young children) by taking away public benefits, forcing medical facilities to shut down due to lack of adequate federal funding, ( caused by insurgancy of ILLEGAL ALIENS)

ILLEGAL ALIENS commit crimes knowingly , they contribute very little to USA and take away Billions not carring who they harm in the process ONLY for their OWN PERSONAL AGENDA.

Schools and education system suffer by illegals lowering standards to accomodate them or saturating public schools of which they PAY nothing into.

Middle class USC/ legal residnets suffer due to ILLEGAL ALIENS taking jobs , & Benefits W/ out legal authoriazation.

Legal drivers pay for unisured ILLEGAL ALIENS.

US BORDER PATROL AGENTS pauy with thier lives, their families suffer BECAUSE OF ILLEGAL ALIENS

ILLEGAL ALIENS cost USA 10 + Billion per year. 2.500.00/ year per Illegal ALien Household.

Once Illegal ALien enters the country without proper visa/ or inspection THIER 1st Act on USA soil is that of willfull criminal defiance!

[eric&gen 0]

I am all for it if i had time i would volunteer to help build a wall across the California Mexico border. I am sick and tired of thoses illegas taking advanage of my hard earned tax dollars espically the lazy ones who abuse the WIC programs and welfare programs. They jump across the border with an attiude thinking we owe them lol. The cost of health care goes up because of them.

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

not necessarily. it's not that much of a leap in logic to assume that if one breaks laws just to get here, that they won't stop doing so. or do you have on rose colored glasses when you make statements like that above?

And again, this all comes down to them not all being the same. You claim to accept that there are many faces to illegal aliens, but you still continuously refer to them as "they" or "them." They're not all the same-I'm not sure how many times I have to say this.

them, they, whatever. that's all semantics on your part if you don't like my referencing them as such.

Is it really so hard to believe that someone might not agree with something but still understand it?

this is entirely different than your previous stance on this subject, which you and i have gone around and around on before.

for the record:

1- i will never agree on offering any benefit to anyone here illegally other than a ride out of the usa to the furthest point away from the usa. no amnesty under any conditions.

2- forget the tax paying this and tax paying that. that is nothing more than allowing someone to buy their way into the usa or "pay the man" for the crimes committed. we americans have seen far too much of that already in our legal system, especially with celebrities and athletes.

3 - why on earth would we start the precedent of essentially accepting "bribe money" to allow someone to stay here (the us government being bribed, not the average citizen).

Edited October 23, 2006 by charlesandnessa

[Traviesa 0]

Ok lets ASSUME that the only crime they commit is entering the USA ILLEGALLY ( as if)

what do they do after entering ILLEGALLY? Just lurk around the country? No, they obtain work illegally, they drive illegally, they take advantage of GOVT. /State benefits meant for legal residents/ & USC,

a large majority of them commit fraud, drive w/ out insurance or liscense,traffic drugs, commit violents criminal acts and are never held accountable.

Most of the above crimes if commited by USC/ or legal resident or legal visitors would be punsihable by jail time, if a tourist or visitor on commited any of these crimes and is found out,would be deported and then banned for 5-10 years. No questions asked.

So why then should ILLEGAL ALIENS who ENTER THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY be allowed to stay, and in addition be given privialiages that not even legal visitors get, why should these ILLEGAL FEDERAL CRIMINAL ALIENS be granted any benefit or leniancy?Why shoul Illegal ALiens be allowed to drive illegally, allowed to obtain work w/out authorization when majority in this forum have to wait for their EAD card pay hundreds of $$ and survive on limmited income while going through the process Legally , WHY SHOULD legal Applicants have to pay for ILLEGAL ALIENS.

They are Federal criminals once they cross the border Illegally,

They have commited a federal crime once they submit a false SS# or ID to obtain employment Illegally.

They have commited Federal crime if they fail to accuratly report their income to the IRS. or fail to pay Income tax.

They steal from legal residents ( the elderly, and young children) by taking away public benefits, forcing medical facilities to shut down due to lack of adequate federal funding, ( caused by insurgancy of ILLEGAL ALIENS)

ILLEGAL ALIENS commit crimes knowingly , they contribute very little to USA and take away Billions not carring who they harm in the process ONLY for their OWN PERSONAL AGENDA.

Schools and education system suffer by illegals lowering standards to accomodate them or saturating public schools of which they PAY nothing into.

Middle class USC/ legal residnets suffer due to ILLEGAL ALIENS taking jobs , & Benefits W/ out legal authoriazation.

Legal drivers pay for unisured ILLEGAL ALIENS.

US BORDER PATROL AGENTS pauy with thier lives, their families suffer BECAUSE OF ILLEGAL ALIENS

ILLEGAL ALIENS cost USA 10 + Billion per year. 2.500.00/ year per Illegal ALien Household.

Once Illegal ALien enters the country without proper visa/ or inspection THIER 1st Act on USA soil is that of willfull criminal defiance!

You lost me on the second paragraph. That's where your argument loses because of what you have said that I have bolded-NOT all of them do. Not even all of them commit that level of crimes, which brings me to your large majority comment, which is where everything just falls apart.

[Addie_Goodvibes 0]

He didn't swim, he walked across the desert. And yes, he was an EWI.

And Charles, I don't agree with illegal immigration as I have stated previously in these many threads. The difference between you and me is I know what what illegal immigration is like from living with it, not hearing stories about it. My experience is life learned, not hearsay. That's why I understand it better than you. I wouldn't expect you to agree with illegal immigration since I don't agree with it either. That being said, I can see who the more openminded person is here by the statements that are made. Thank goodness I'm not so closeminded as to not be able to understand someone else's situation, whether I agree or disagree.

you assume you know more about it than i do, and you assume that i know nothing about it. more arrogance on your part, keep up the ego trip.

If you knew about it, you wouldn't be saying things which are incorrect. How can you know about something, but not know about all aspects of it?

and which part of what i've said is incorrect? and your last sentence makes no logical sense whatsoever. one can know something about say..addition.....but not know calculus.....yet they still know math

No, I would say they know addition. There are many faces to illegal immigration-there are criminal drug smugglers, there are overstayers, there are ones who pay taxes, there are ones on welfare, there are ones who try to live their life well, and there are ones who exploit systems. There's many other types as well-but in order to know about illegal immigration, you have to know about all those-accept that they exist. That's something you don't do.

Good Point! My emphasis has been on those Illegal Aliens who entered illegally.

Thats not to say that overstayers, and others are not Illegal Aliens either,

there are majority in this forum that are waiting for proper work Authorization that are living with very little and sacrifice to go through the process legally,

It depends of what they do when they are here, are they obtaining employement w/ out authorization?

are the commiting crimes while here? have they field proper paperwork to adjust stauts, began paying back taxes.

[mawilson 2,133]

not necessarily. it's not that much of a leap in logic to assume that if one breaks laws just to get here, that they won't stop doing so. or do you have on rose colored glasses when you make statements like that above?

Once a criminal, always a criminal? I take it you don't believe in starting with a clean slate?

[Addie_Goodvibes 0]

Ok lets ASSUME that the only crime they commit is entering the USA ILLEGALLY ( as if)

what do they do after entering ILLEGALLY? Just lurk around the country? No, they obtain work illegally, they drive illegally, they take advantage of GOVT. /State benefits meant for legal residents/ & USC,

a large majority of them commit fraud, drive w/ out insurance or liscense,traffic drugs, commit violents criminal acts and are never held accountable.

Most of the above crimes if commited by USC/ or legal resident or legal visitors would be punsihable by jail time, if a tourist or visitor on commited any of these crimes and is found out,would be deported and then banned for 5-10 years. No questions asked.

So why then should ILLEGAL ALIENS who ENTER THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY be allowed to stay, and in addition be given privialiages that not even legal visitors get, why should these ILLEGAL FEDERAL CRIMINAL ALIENS be granted any benefit or leniancy?Why shoul Illegal ALiens be allowed to drive illegally, allowed to obtain work w/out authorization when majority in this forum have to wait for their EAD card pay hundreds of $$ and survive on limmited income while going through the process Legally , WHY SHOULD legal Applicants have to pay for ILLEGAL ALIENS.

They are Federal criminals once they cross the border Illegally,

They have commited a federal crime once they submit a false SS# or ID to obtain employment Illegally.

They have commited Federal crime if they fail to accuratly report their income to the IRS. or fail to pay Income tax.

They steal from legal residents ( the elderly, and young children) by taking away public benefits, forcing medical facilities to shut down due to lack of adequate federal funding, ( caused by insurgancy of ILLEGAL ALIENS)

ILLEGAL ALIENS commit crimes knowingly , they contribute very little to USA and take away Billions not carring who they harm in the process ONLY for their OWN PERSONAL AGENDA.

Schools and education system suffer by illegals lowering standards to accomodate them or saturating public schools of which they PAY nothing into.

Middle class USC/ legal residnets suffer due to ILLEGAL ALIENS taking jobs , & Benefits W/ out legal authoriazation.

Legal drivers pay for unisured ILLEGAL ALIENS.

US BORDER PATROL AGENTS pauy with thier lives, their families suffer BECAUSE OF ILLEGAL ALIENS

ILLEGAL ALIENS cost USA 10 + Billion per year. 2.500.00/ year per Illegal ALien Household.

Once Illegal ALien enters the country without proper visa/ or inspection THIER 1st Act on USA soil is that of willfull criminal defiance!

You lost me on the second paragraph. That's where your argument loses because of what you have said that I have bolded-NOT all of them do. Not even all of them commit that level of crimes, which brings me to your large majority comment, which is where everything just falls apart.

If an illegal Alien enters the country and then drives, he/she is driving illegally, and even if some DMV ninny mucked up and gave an Illegal Alien a Dri vers liscense that still does not give them the right to be in USA if they entered Illegally, that is where the Federal Crime is ( from my points) so assuming all that happened was entering illegally. THAT is A federal Crime that should be punished.

You know that that is not where it stops, you know but may not admit that they cost USA Billions per year regadrless if they break any additional laws.

[Traviesa 0]

Ok lets ASSUME that the only crime they commit is entering the USA ILLEGALLY ( as if)

what do they do after entering ILLEGALLY? Just lurk around the country? No, they obtain work illegally, they drive illegally, they take advantage of GOVT. /State benefits meant for legal residents/ & USC,

a large majority of them commit fraud, drive w/ out insurance or liscense,traffic drugs, commit violents criminal acts and are never held accountable.

Most of the above crimes if commited by USC/ or legal resident or legal visitors would be punsihable by jail time, if a tourist or visitor on commited any of these crimes and is found out,would be deported and then banned for 5-10 years. No questions asked.

So why then should ILLEGAL ALIENS who ENTER THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY be allowed to stay, and in addition be given privialiages that not even legal visitors get, why should these ILLEGAL FEDERAL CRIMINAL ALIENS be granted any benefit or leniancy?Why shoul Illegal ALiens be allowed to drive illegally, allowed to obtain work w/out authorization when majority in this forum have to wait for their EAD card pay hundreds of $$ and survive on limmited income while going through the process Legally , WHY SHOULD legal Applicants have to pay for ILLEGAL ALIENS.

They are Federal criminals once they cross the border Illegally,

They have commited a federal crime once they submit a false SS# or ID to obtain employment Illegally.

They have commited Federal crime if they fail to accuratly report their income to the IRS. or fail to pay Income tax.

They steal from legal residents ( the elderly, and young children) by taking away public benefits, forcing medical facilities to shut down due to lack of adequate federal funding, ( caused by insurgancy of ILLEGAL ALIENS)

ILLEGAL ALIENS commit crimes knowingly , they contribute very little to USA and take away Billions not carring who they harm in the process ONLY for their OWN PERSONAL AGENDA.

Schools and education system suffer by illegals lowering standards to accomodate them or saturating public schools of which they PAY nothing into.

Middle class USC/ legal residnets suffer due to ILLEGAL ALIENS taking jobs , & Benefits W/ out legal authoriazation.

Legal drivers pay for unisured ILLEGAL ALIENS.

US BORDER PATROL AGENTS pauy with thier lives, their families suffer BECAUSE OF ILLEGAL ALIENS

ILLEGAL ALIENS cost USA 10 + Billion per year. 2.500.00/ year per Illegal ALien Household.

Once Illegal ALien enters the country without proper visa/ or inspection THIER 1st Act on USA soil is that of willfull criminal defiance!

You lost me on the second paragraph. That's where your argument loses because of what you have said that I have bolded-NOT all of them do. Not even all of them commit that level of crimes, which brings me to your large majority comment, which is where everything just falls apart.

If an illegal Alien enters the country and then drives, he/she is driving illegally, and even if some DMV ninny mucked up and gave an Illegal Alien a Dri vers liscense that still does not give them the right to be in USA if they entered Illegally, that is where the Federal Crime is ( from my points) so assuming all that happened was entering illegally. THAT is A federal Crime that should be punished.

You know that that is not where it stops, you know but may not admit that they cost USA Billions per year regadrless if they break any additional laws.

I hear what you're saying, but who's to say whether or not they will drive? For one that you can point out to me who drives unlicensed/uninsured, I can point out one who chooses not to drive.

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

not necessarily. it's not that much of a leap in logic to assume that if one breaks laws just to get here, that they won't stop doing so. or do you have on rose colored glasses when you make statements like that above?

Once a criminal, always a criminal? I take it you don't believe in starting with a clean slate?

kinda difficult to start with a clean slate when the first action of the illegals i'm referencing is to commit an illegal act

[Traviesa 0]

not necessarily. it's not that much of a leap in logic to assume that if one breaks laws just to get here, that they won't stop doing so. or do you have on rose colored glasses when you make statements like that above?

Once a criminal, always a criminal? I take it you don't believe in starting with a clean slate?

kinda difficult to start with a clean slate when the first action of the illegals i'm referencing is to commit an illegal act

me no comprende your answer. Let's just for a minute take this to a personal level. Even though you don't know him, do you think my husband because he entered illegally, is now disposed to a life of crime? Do you think I would be involved with someone who has a criminal mind and repeatedly walks all over the law? And aside from that, how would you feel if I were to tell you that he had been permanently banned from this country? On the contrary, how would you feel if I posted tomorrow that he was coming home? I'm just curious...

[Addie_Goodvibes 0]

not necessarily. it's not that much of a leap in logic to assume that if one breaks laws just to get here, that they won't stop doing so. or do you have on rose colored glasses when you make statements like that above?

Once a criminal, always a criminal? I take it you don't believe in starting with a clean slate?

Good point! Once a crime is commited it shoul dbe addressed, if someone commits a crime then 5-10 years later is a good memebr of society with no other violations that does not excuse the initial crime.

And the intitial crime in this case a federal crime where their 1st Act on USA soil is proving criminal defiance they shoul dbe punsihed.

Majority don't just nicely kindly, sneak across the border. they do it with the aide of organised Crime leaders ( on USA's Southern border Drug Cartels) they do it with intentions of breaking other laws, Wroking illegally obtaining Fraudulent ID to get work. (not mentioning viooent crimes increasing due to the increased numbers of Illegal Aliens) Often combining drug trafficking and violent acts.

So no once a criminal not always a criminal but once a crime is commited it must be dealt with in a standard way. So enter illegally, Be kindly asked to leave (Deported) then wait 5 years and apply the legal way, Then enter USA on authorized visa and welcome to America as a good member of society.