Selective Service

[LauraDP 10]

Hi VJers

I am posting this under General Immigration as I am not entirely sure where the best fit is for this topic. Feel free to move it if you think it is best suited elsewhere.

My husband (aged 37) is a USC but he has not lived in the US since he was 16. He was born in the UK (and is a dual UK/US national through his parents) so was only permanently resident in the US for a period in his early to mid teens. To cut a long story short, he never registered for Selective Service. He was back living in the UK when he turned 18 and was not involved in any US institutions whereby a reminder might have been given. All of the males in his family are/were UK nationals so it was never relevant for them so there was no reminder that way. He actually only became aware of it when we began this whole immigration process. Now, of course, at 37 he is too old to register.

The major problem is that my husband wishes to seek employment in Federal Government - as that would be the equivalent to the professional role he does here in the UK - and you have to have been registered for Selective Service to work for Federal Government.

He got in touch with the Selective Service Registry and explained the circumstances. They said that what had to happen was that he would have to wait until he was offered and accepted a job and then the prospective employer would check the register, see he was not on it and that was the point when he could apply for a waiver given the circumstances. As I understand it, essentially they are trying to sort out "draft dodgers" so we are hoping that my husband's explanation for his oversight is compelling enough for them to grant a waiver.

When it comes down to brass tacks, if this prevents my husband from gaining Federal employment then we may as well quit the whole immigration process as without a like-for-like professional position we would not be able to afford to live in the US as a family, at least not without a real struggle which would not be worth it in the long run given that we are all together here in the UK as a family.

So my questions are: Has anyone else had a hiccup with Selective Service? Has anyone else successfully applied for a waiver? Should my husband be up front about this technical snag with prospective employers or wait until he is offered a job to declare it?

Thanks in advance.

Best wishes

Laura

[Waiting_In_SC 28]

Hi VJers

I am posting this under General Immigration as I am not entirely sure where the best fit is for this topic. Feel free to move it if you think it is best suited elsewhere.

My husband (aged 37) is a USC but he has not lived in the US since he was 16. He was born in the UK (and is a dual UK/US national through his parents) so was only permanently resident in the US for a period in his early to mid teens. To cut a long story short, he never registered for Selective Service. He was back living in the UK when he turned 18 and was not involved in any US institutions whereby a reminder might have been given. All of the males in his family are/were UK nationals so it was never relevant for them so there was no reminder that way. He actually only became aware of it when we began this whole immigration process. Now, of course, at 37 he is too old to register.

The major problem is that my husband wishes to seek employment in Federal Government - as that would be the equivalent to the professional role he does here in the UK - and you have to have been registered for Selective Service to work for Federal Government.

He got in touch with the Selective Service Registry and explained the circumstances. They said that what had to happen was that he would have to wait until he was offered and accepted a job and then the prospective employer would check the register, see he was not on it and that was the point when he could apply for a waiver given the circumstances. As I understand it, essentially they are trying to sort out "draft dodgers" so we are hoping that my husband's explanation for his oversight is compelling enough for them to grant a waiver.

When it comes down to brass tacks, if this prevents my husband from gaining Federal employment then we may as well quit the whole immigration process as without a like-for-like professional position we would not be able to afford to live in the US as a family, at least not without a real struggle which would not be worth it in the long run given that we are all together here in the UK as a family.

So my questions are: Has anyone else had a hiccup with Selective Service? Has anyone else successfully applied for a waiver? Should my husband be up front about this technical snag with prospective employers or wait until he is offered a job to declare it?

Thanks in advance.

Best wishes

Laura

I don't know anything about issues with his not registering for Selective Service. I would, however, be up front about it with perspective employers. This may cost him an opportunity or two, but employers would be none too happy to have called other prospective employees to inform them they didn't get the job only to find out that the person they hired may or may not be able to legally accept the job.

It's just my opinion, but I'd be up front about it.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Waiting_In_SC

[teddy k 35]

hi I would not be to worried about it hurting him now since the selective service was done away with after they stopped drafting people plus since he was not in the states at that time it does not pertain to him but if asked I would tell anybody what you told us just be upfront about everything you should be alright-good-luck

[BethandBilly 86]

Every man in the US between the ages of 18 and 25 must sign up for Selective Service if they are legal US Residents or Citizens, please note that this part of the Civics Test when applying for Naturalization.

Here is an excerpt from the Selective Service website:

ATTENTION, UNDOCUMENTED MALES

& IMMIGRANT SERVICING GROUPS!

Selective Service does not collect any information which would indicate whether or not you are undocumented. You want to protect yourself for future U.S. citizenship and other government benefits and programs by registering with Selective Service. Do it today.

If you are a man ages 18 through 25 and living in the U.S., then you must register with Selective Service. It’s the law. According to law, a man must register with Selective Service within 30 days of his 18th birthday. Selective Service will accept late registrations but not after a man has reached age 26. You may be denied benefits or a job if you have not registered. You can register at any U.S. Post Office and do not need a social security number. When you do obtain a social security number, let Selective Service know. Provide a copy of your new social security number card; being sure to include your complete name, date of birth, Selective Service registration number, and current mailing address; and mail to the Selective Service System, P.O. Box 94636, Palatine, IL 60094-4636.

OP, I am sorry I do not know the answer to your question, I am sure there will be others along with more information. Good Luck to you both

hi I would not be to worried about it hurting him now since the selective service was done away with after they stopped drafting people plus since he was not in the states at that time it does not pertain to him but if asked I would tell anybody what you told us just be upfront about everything you should be alright-good-luck

Edited August 21, 2012 by BethandBilly

[BethandBilly 86]

Hi Laura, I found this about Dual Nationals, I know you said you husband had lived here in the US in his teens, how long for may help on working out if he needs to do Selective Service. Here's a little bit of info that may help

ALIENS AND DUAL NATIONALS

U.S. non-citizens and dual nationals are required by law to register with the Selective Service System.* Most are also liable for induction into the U.S. Armed Forces if there is a draft. They would also be eligible for any deferments, postponements, and exemptions available to all other registrants.

However, some aliens and dual nationals would be exempt from induction into the military if there is a draft, depending on their country of origin and other factors. Some of these exemptions are shown below:

• An alien who has lived in the U.S. for less than one year is exempt from induction.
• A dual national whose other country of nationality has an agreement with the U.S. which specifically provides for an exemption is exempt from induction.
• [some countries have agreements with the U.S. which exempt an alien national who is a citizen of both that country and the U.S. from military service in the U.S. Armed Forces.] An alien who requests and is exempt under an agreement or bilateral treaty can never become a U.S. citizen, and may have trouble reentering the U.S. if he leaves.
• An alien who served at least a year in the military of a country with which the U.S. is involved in mutual defense activities will be exempt from military service if he is a national of a country that grants reciprocal privileges to citizens of the U.S.

Hi VJers

I am posting this under General Immigration as I am not entirely sure where the best fit is for this topic. Feel free to move it if you think it is best suited elsewhere.

My husband (aged 37) is a USC but he has not lived in the US since he was 16. He was born in the UK (and is a dual UK/US national through his parents) so was only permanently resident in the US for a period in his early to mid teens. To cut a long story short, he never registered for Selective Service. He was back living in the UK when he turned 18 and was not involved in any US institutions whereby a reminder might have been given. All of the males in his family are/were UK nationals so it was never relevant for them so there was no reminder that way. He actually only became aware of it when we began this whole immigration process. Now, of course, at 37 he is too old to register.

The major problem is that my husband wishes to seek employment in Federal Government - as that would be the equivalent to the professional role he does here in the UK - and you have to have been registered for Selective Service to work for Federal Government.

He got in touch with the Selective Service Registry and explained the circumstances. They said that what had to happen was that he would have to wait until he was offered and accepted a job and then the prospective employer would check the register, see he was not on it and that was the point when he could apply for a waiver given the circumstances. As I understand it, essentially they are trying to sort out "draft dodgers" so we are hoping that my husband's explanation for his oversight is compelling enough for them to grant a waiver.

When it comes down to brass tacks, if this prevents my husband from gaining Federal employment then we may as well quit the whole immigration process as without a like-for-like professional position we would not be able to afford to live in the US as a family, at least not without a real struggle which would not be worth it in the long run given that we are all together here in the UK as a family.

So my questions are: Has anyone else had a hiccup with Selective Service? Has anyone else successfully applied for a waiver? Should my husband be up front about this technical snag with prospective employers or wait until he is offered a job to declare it?

Thanks in advance.

Best wishes

Laura

[LauraDP 10]

Thanks for all of the replies.

We are aware that he should definitely have registered. When in the US, he attended an International School from the age of 14 so it never came up then and when he returned to the UK at the age of 16 there was never anything he received that indicated he should sign up. It was absolutely and honest ignorance on his part. He would actually happily sign up for Selective Service now if it was possible but, because of his age, he cannot. It was a genuine oversight on his part. There is no reciprocal arrangement with the UK as we don't have National Service here.

We were also of the view that it was best to be up front with prospective employers so I am glad you agree that honesty is the best policy.

I am now, however, feeling rather despondent about our whole plan to relocate to the US as I am now thinking if an employer has two candidates in front of them why would they choose my husband when it requires extra paperwork to employ him?

I think this is the lowest ebb I have been at so far in this journey (and I appreciate we have a long road ahead of us) as it feels as if doors are closing now when we need them to be opening for us to feel encouraged to keep investing money in this immigration process.

Thanks again for your replies.

Best wishes

Laura

[LIFE'SJOURNEY 970]

Durning security screening for a federal job it will be detected, he will just be weened out of the application pool. There will not a time for him to verberally explain why he did not register for the selective service between the age of 18-32.

Before you naysayer say not 18-32, there are branches of the military that you can voluntary join up to the age of 32. So corrections could have been done up age 32, it would have been better at age 18,

Edited August 21, 2012 by LIFE'SJOURNEY

[LauraDP 10]

Durning security screening for a federal job it will be detected, he will just be weened out of the application pool. There will not a time for him to verberally explain why he did not register for the selective service between the age of 18-32.

Before you naysayer say not 18-32, there are branches of the military that you can voluntary join up to the age of 32. So corrections could have been done up age 32, it would have been better at age 18,

Thanks for your response.

So even though he has applied for a Status Information letter that he could include with his applications, you think he would just be weeded out and not even invited to interview?

In that case we really can kiss the dream of relocating to the US goodbye as there is no way for us to make it work.

[LauraDP 10]

Before you naysayer say not 18-32, there are branches of the military that you can voluntary join up to the age of 32. So corrections could have been done up age 32, it would have been better at age 18,

I forgot to respond to this bit. My husband is 37 so no matter what the age span he is now definitely too old to register. The Selective Service people have told him as much.

[LauraDP 10]

Having now read pretty much everything there is to read online about Selective Service, I understand that the process is very clear from the Office of Personnel Management that states that you cannot be banned from working in a federal job if you did not knowingly and wilfully fail to register. Now, some agencies may do that out of hand but they are not allowed to. My husband has some very compelling evidence that it was a sincere oversight rather than a knowing and wilful failure. However, how would he ever prove that he was not being invited to interview because of the SS issue rather than him just not being the candidate they were looking for?

This is just so depressing. I feel like I want to cry but my kids are in the room.

[LIFE'SJOURNEY 970]

All applications goes thru a check point for validation of information. I am not clear on how you'll will propose to attach this letter, will you be attaching it to the resume? I am quite sure you do understand that some applications will be weeded out because they will not meet the federal security chek point.

To apply or not apply is a personal decision. yes, I would apply, but would every know the reason as to why he would not be selected, no.

Good luck.

Edited August 21, 2012 by LIFE'SJOURNEY

[LauraDP 10]

All applications goes thru a check point for validation of information. I am not clear on how you'll will propose to attach this letter, will you be attaching it to the resume? I am quite sure you do understand that some applications will be weeded out because they will not meet the federal security chek point.

To apply or not apply is a personal decision.

Thanks for replying again, Life's Journey.

Since it is my husband who will be applying for the jobs, he is more familiar with the application forms than I am. However, I recollect him saying there is usually a place on the form to indicate your Selective Status and he would intend to reference the attached Status Information letter attached to the application and covering letter. Perhaps he could reference it in his resume just to be clear and honest and up front about it from the very outset.

I am uncertain in what way SS becomes a security clearance issue. Can you explain, please, so that I can research that more?

My husband actually worked as an intern in the Pentagon back in 1995 and his lack of SS registration was never even brought to his attention (how I wish it had been!) let alone act as a blocker to security clearance. I appreciate that security systems are even more vigilant post 9/11 but it just seems bizarre to me that he cannot make any sort of amends for a sincere oversight and it could wreck all of his plans for returning to the US.

[Holly2234 66]

I know this is just a long shot right now and i dont have any constructive advice, but could your husband apply for a few jobs now and just see what happens? You never know, he may get offered an interview. That is the ultimate test to whether they are casting him aside because of this. He could always decline the interview and say he has not yet relocated. But if he gets one, thats good news for you all.

[BethandBilly 86]

Laura, there are some online Federal Resume services that may help your husband with this situation, they may know of a way to write this into your husbands resume when he applies for federal jobs, here is a link for one of them www.federalresumeexperts.com/.

Don't give up before you've ever really tried, that would be a real shame. Good Luck

I am uncertain in what way SS becomes a security clearance issue. Can you explain, please, so that I can research that more?

My husband actually worked as an intern in the Pentagon back in 1995 and his lack of SS registration was never even brought to his attention (how I wish it had been!) let alone act as a blocker to security clearance. I appreciate that security systems are even more vigilant post 9/11 but it just seems bizarre to me that he cannot make any sort of amends for a sincere oversight and it could wreck all of his plans for returning to the US.

Edited August 21, 2012 by BethandBilly

[LauraDP 10]

I know this is just a long shot right now and i dont have any constructive advice, but could your husband apply for a few jobs now and just see what happens? You never know, he may get offered an interview. That is the ultimate test to whether they are casting him aside because of this. He could always decline the interview and say he has not yet relocated. But if he gets one, thats good news for you all.

Thanks for your reply, Holly.

We have already decided it might be best for him to start applying for jobs earlier than planned. He cannot begin applying, however, until he get the Qualification Equivalency back and now he will also be waiting for the Status Information letter. We had talked about applying for jobs earlier because we understand from some contacts in Federal Depts that it can take a long time between appointing someone and them being cleared to actually start the job and being able to start work but now we have a more personal reason to perhaps start testing the waters. Of course, the difficulty with that approach is that if, by some twist of fortune, he ends up getting a job much earlier than planned, I will be stranded here with the kids for a long period having to sell our home, ship our possessions and complete the visa processing all on my own. It will also involve me living with my in-laws for even longer than anticipated which could be some form of cruel and unusual punishment.

I always said from the beginning of this whole process that it would be meant to be if doors were opening for us and up until now it felt as if that was happening whereas now it feels like doors are closing. So maybe it is a sign that this is not meant to be.

Or maybe I am just really down in the dumps.

Thanks

Laura