Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Still converts! There is a difference between new and newest members WOM. There is no point diverting attention to 'how much half is half and if it is less than 50% it is ok but 78% is not.

You can't back up your claims with actual data, Confused One.

As for your silly statement that Islam is "a religion of converts" - even in the U.S., a country which has one of the higher percentages of converts to Islam, they make up only about 20% of American Muslims. Most Muslims around the world are born in the religion.

http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf

As for the 78% of historic Palestine that has been taken, that refers to the internationally recognized borders of Israel - the so-called "Green Line" borders (map #3) that the entire world including the Palestinian Authority has accepted.

In reality, Israel controls all of historic Palestine, and has been illegally colonizing most of the remaining 22%.

Explain the peaceful and tolerant theory behind the passion for dividing the lands and wars though because that you have not been able to deny.

To what are you referring ? Palestinians fought against the division of their land.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

mmm right about that but isn't most of the ones here in the USA going into other countries (muslim) demanding that they live with Democratic government same as USA mostly christian? going to war with any other country under the pretense of giving them a better life that they have not asked us to do or looking for wmds that they dont have being done by mostly christians?

sara

I think going to war with any country for any reason other than they have attacked our country or pose a grave security threat is unacceptable.

As to the subject of, where most of the soldiers Christians. Who knows. Many faiths among out military. I suspect less than half are practicing Christians. The point you miss is they are not there for religious reasons. Muslims are killing and committing acts of terrorism as acts of religious faith.

As for the WMD. There was a lot of evidence they were there. Many from both sides of the aisle thought they were. We know they had them at one point so where are they ?

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I'm an Israeli. I can prove it in the history of Israel, and in the history of the modern Middle East and Asia. Everywhere you look on the globe, the stage was set for discord by European Christian colonialists who had no regard for the people and lands they exploited.

You know nothing about Islam; that's easy to tell from your ####### talk.

You don't even know your own history. Until your hands are clean, and Hindu hands are in no way clean, your criticism of others is as in no way morally superior.

No countries are Islamic. There are about 57 predominantly Muslim countries. Tell us how many of those have blasphemy laws.

No countries are Islamic. ?? Really ever hear of the Islamic Republic of Iran ??? How man Muslim countries rule by Sharia law. ?? Your not dealing with facts

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Just as most Muslims consider the Taliban, al Qaeda etc. to be nut jobs, and denounce them.

What exactly constitutes "a very large large number" ? There are more than 2 billion Muslims in the world. Do you have any link on figures for what percentage are "radical" (actually, you mean "extremists") ? Correspondingly, do you have any figures on how many Christians or Jews are extremists, and what percentage they make up of those religions' respective followers ?

The fact that a particular country has oppression is not an indictment of the religion that the majority happen to follow, but rather an indictment of its government and leadership. Otherwise, how could there be such horrible oppression in Rwanda, or Uganda, or South Africa, where most people were Christians ?

In fact, most Muslims criticize the oppression in Saudi Arabia.

This falsehood has long been debunked, but continues a life of its own on the internet. Please post the quote where Ahmadinejad said anything about Iran "blowing Israel off the map and triggering an Apocalypse."

I must step out for a few, but will continue responding to the rest of your comments. BTW I appreciate your cordiality in this discussion.

I am always civil until the 15th when my Meds run out LOL

Do you really think most Muslims denounce women's oppression hate terrorism and are tolerant of other faiths. If most where, we would not have all the problems we have in the middle east and most any where else you have a large Muslim population.

This is just one of many quotes from Ahmadinejad on Israel.. Pretty clear isn't it .

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/18/world/middleeast/in-iran-ahmadinejad-calls-israel-insult-to-humankind.html

The very existence of the Zionist regime is an insult to humankind and an affront to all world nations,” the news agency’s English-language report on the speech quoted him as saying. “Confronting Zionists will also pave the way for saving the whole humankind from exploitation, depravity and misery.” In another passage, Mr. Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying that Jerusalem Day, which the Iranians call Quds Day after the city’s Arabic name, was “an occasion for all human communities to wipe out this scarlet letter, meaning the Zionist regime, from the forehead of humanity.”

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Every day I watch the Christians in this country become more powerful and more hateful, and yet you tell American Muslims to become more moderate. Practice what you preach.

I don't disagree with you. Many Christians in this country are perverting the faith to preach hatred . The difference is that here they are just irritating and we laugh at them. In many Muslim countries those wing nuts are running the country.

There is a reason we have separation of church and state and we don't allow the ten commandments to be hung in courtrooms. In most Muslim countries religious law is the law of the land.

[Boiler 46,241]

God is great!

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Everyday I see muslims move to different parts of the world and start demanding that the laws and the society change for them or they resort to force/terrorism. Once they are in majority, that place is changed into 'Islamic republic of blah di blah'. Christians, hindus, budhists, jews etc etc have problems in their society but they do not proclaiming Jihad against others who do not follow the same religion. You cannot compare anything to Islam for what it is doing and you cannot justify it any way no matter how much you blame the world. The truth is that Islam preaches difference and superiority of Islam and conversion by any means. There is no peace and tolerance. What cr@p you are talking about??

Perfect example. I am going to my wife's home in 2 weeks. It is fairly safe to travel anywhere in the Philippines except guess where. You got it the Muslim controlled parts of the Country.

""" Before the argument starts I understand there are places in Cebu Luzon, etc you don't go but it is pockets, just like you have here in the states not whole provinces".

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Jordanians never expelled Palestinians from their homes in Palestine, or appropriated their property.

My family lost our homes, businesses and properties in Haifa in April 1948, but, not to the Jordanians.

Simple question.. What county rules most of what use to be Palestine ?

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

You can't back up your claims with actual data, Confused One.

As for your silly statement that Islam is "a religion of converts" - even in the U.S., a country which has one of the higher percentages of converts to Islam, they make up only about 20% of American Muslims. Most Muslims around the world are born in the religion.

http://pewresearch.o...m-americans.pdf

As for the 78% of historic Palestine that has been taken, that refers to the internationally recognized borders of Israel - the so-called "Green Line" borders (map #3) that the entire world including the Palestinian Authority has accepted.

In reality, Israel controls all of historic Palestine, and has been illegally colonizing most of the remaining 22%.

To what are you referring ? Palestinians fought against the division of their land.

My link

This is a political post, which I don’t usually do. I live in Israel. I love the fact that technology brings people together, and I have several online friends from countries considered enemies of or hostile to israel (syria, iran, lebanon).

With the recent conflicts between Israel and Palestinians in Gaza, You’ve probably seen this map being thrown around in various forums.

It depicts what seems to be a loss of land that was previously Palestinian. It looks pretty horrible without context, I know.As an israeli and as someone who really dislikes dis-information, I though I’d give my point of view, based on what the real facts .

I’m writing this so that I can point my friends and those who ask to a place where there is more context and info about this map, and why, even though it may be georgraphically correct, it is a distortion of reality to take it out of context.

A good source of history information about the conflict

a site doesn’t take sides, that has a more or less accurate information about the dispute can be found here.

OK, let’s talk about the maps from left to right (chronological order):

Map 1: 1946

The map is NOT graphically correct. Several things are not accurate. First – the british had ruled israel. this was not arab land or jewish land. jews and arabs were living in british occupation. Another thing that needs to be said is that the bottom half of the map was unpopulated – it is a desert part in israel, and even today, it has less than 10% of the population living there because of the conditions. so it should not be green or white. it was largely empty.

The arab population in israel was larger than the jewish population, and they were both growing at a large rate.There was a large influx of jews coming in(most of whom were fleeing the increasing persecution in Europe). There was lots of killing and massacres against the jews until the UN decided to partition the land (as seen on map 2).

Map 2:

The UN decided what the division would be(israel got most of the uninhebited, desert part). arabs got the right part, and lots of the top and parts of the left. For context – the right side of the map borders with Jordan, which means the UN declared the green right part to actually be jordanian terrotory. the top part id bordering with syria and lebanon. the bottom part borders with egypt.

map 3:

The important thing to remember here is that the arabs did not accept the UN decision and instead began to wage war against the israelis (who wanted to accept it). During this war the israelies had won, and had pushed the arabs back into what is now seen in map 3 (second from the right). Remember, this was war and the green zones were attaching the white ones. so green was smaller at the end of the war.

in essence, map 2 never came into existence. except in the minds of the UN.

that’s how it roughly stayed until 67.

map 4:

so how did we get from map 3 to map 4?

in 67, Egypt decided to declare war on Israel (the bottom gray in the map is the start of egypt. They essentially closed all the bottom part of israel and parts which are not seen on this map.

Jordan and Syria (to the right and to the top of israel) quickly joined in the war, and israel was now attacked from 3 sides. yes. that includes in inner green part that was actually attacking israel from almost within it.

Israel gained victory in that war, pushing back jordan, syria and egypt into what will now look closer to map no. 4 (most right).

the settlement problem

After Israel had won, it could have chosen to do many things – for example negotiate with jordan and leave the places won over to something like the 67’ border. But it chose, for mostly security, ideological and religious reasons, to stay in those territories and start building settlements there. it built roads that divided the occupied land and basically did lots of things which today there is nothing really good to say about them (and is slowly trying to turn back the wheel on some of them). Still, the security aspect is the one that is the most relevant today. It keeps the other side farther away. if they were closer, their missiles could have easily hit 60% of israel, instead of 30% right now.

A hole we can’t get out of

a lot of what people have a problem with today is the fact that israel as a country supported and still supports parts of the settlements, which are not legal by international law. the reasons, again, are security,ideological and religion (promised land etc..). there is a great divide among the israeli people whether this should continue or not but the situation has now become too problematic to easily solve. Many also believe that the settlements are a security measure that helps to keep the missile attacks farther away from the cities.

for example, Israel had actually gotten fully out of part of the territories (gaza for example), but got back missilies and rockets (which is why we see the Israel coming back in – to stop this). there were many negotiations and many agreements that were broken or followed by both on a single side of the conflict, and many believe that there is no one to talk to on the other side.

many in israel believe that two states are the end result any way, (something like the 67 borders) but want to make sure that the other state will not try to destroy israel (as it had promised to do, with the backing of iran and syria) many times. a state next to you has to recognize that you have a right to exist, and not try to burn you.

Why we are in gaza now

Israel is in gaza now for the simple reason of stopping the rockets and achieving a ceasefire that will last for a long time. it has started with a 6 month quiet period in which over 400 rockets were fired on israel from gaza with no retaliation.

there is no denying that the human situation in gaza sucks. Israel tries to aid in allowing food shipments, money and international aid through passages, but at the end of the day, right now, it is trying to defend itself. nothing more, and nothing less. with force, yes. because nothing else before that has worked.

The size of israel

Israel is Tiny. Seriously. Much smaller than California, Norway or Argentina (see more places to compare). I can take my car and drive from north to south in about 6-8 hours of non stop driving. Compare israel to the size of its surrounding countries and you begin to see what “small and surrounded with enemies” feels like. Jews have literally nowhere else to go. Arabs have lots and lots. yet they insist that Israel be destroyed. And Israel still has to defend itself from many threats all around. and now, also from within.

There is a lot of mis and dis information running around the web right now. I hope that the facts can help sort things out. I hope that I had done justice to the facts.

Before writing this, I did some fact checking with a well known middle-east researcher before publishing this, and will update this post on problems or important comments.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

God is great!

Beer is good and people are crazy

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I think going to war with any country for any reason other than they have attacked our country or pose a grave security threat is unacceptable.

Like Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya...

As to the subject of, where most of the soldiers Christians. Who knows. Many faiths among out military. I suspect less than half are practicing Christians.

According to a 2008 U.S. Department of Defense survey of active-duty military, 22% self-identify as evangelical or Pentecostal, 19% self-identify as Roman Catholics, 20% self-identify as simply "Christian." That's 63%. Another 20% self-identify as "no religious preference," but most of these are nondenominational Christians - only .5% call themselves "atheist." A even smaller number self-identify as Muslim or Jewish. So you're looking at more than 80% Christian (those who definitely believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ):

As a whole, the military is actually slightly less religious than the general population: 20 percent of the roughly 1.4 million active-duty personnel checked off a box for a 2008 Department of Defense survey that says “no religious preference,” compared with the 16.1 percent of Americans who describe themselves as “unaffiliated.” These ambivalent soldiers should not be confused with the actively irreligious, though. Only half of one percent of the military accepts the label “atheist” or “agnostic.” (Jews are even scarcer, accounting for only one service member in three hundred; Muslims are just one in four hundred.) Around 22 percent, meanwhile, identify themselves as affiliated with evangelical or Pentecostal denominations. But that number is misleading. It leaves out those attached to the traditional mainline denominations—about 7 percent of the military—who describe themselves as evangelical; George W. Bush, for instance, is a Methodist. Among the 19 percent of military members who are Roman Catholics, meanwhile, there is a small but vocal subset who tend politically to affiliate with conservative evangelicals. And then there is the 20 percent of the military who describe themselves simply as “Christian,” a category that encompasses both those who give God little thought and the many evangelicals who reject denominational affiliation as divisive of the Body of Christ. “I don’t like ‘religion,’” a fundamentalist evangelical major told me. “That’s what put my savior on the cross. The Pharisees.”

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/05/0082488/

The point you miss is they are not there for religious reasons. Muslims are killing and committing acts of terrorism as acts of religious faith.

No, most Muslim terrorists are not committing their acts because of religion; they are fighting against what they perceive as foreign occupation of their land. According to the landmark study of suicide terrorism by Robert A. Pape, who studied every single suicide terror attack from 1980 to early 2004:

The central fact is that overwhelmingly suicide-terrorist attacks are not driven by religion as much as they are by a clear strategic objective: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland. From Lebanon to Sri Lanka to Chechnya to Kashmir to the West Bank, every major suicide-terrorist campaign—over 95 percent of all the incidents—has had as its central objective to compel a democratic state to withdraw.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-logic-of-suicide-terrorism/

As for the WMD. There was a lot of evidence they were there. Many from both sides of the aisle thought they were. We know they had them at one point so where are they ?

Prior to the U.S. invasion of Iraq, the CIA and all other U.S. military-intelligence experts concluded that there was no evidence that Iraq had WMDs; in fact, there was clear evidence that Iraq had abandoned any WMD program years before. They advised George W. Bush of their conclusions.

However, Bush didn't want to hear that. He was determined to do what his daddy couldn't (take out Saddam) and he insisted that there had to be WMDs there - to justify his war. So he created the Office of Special Plans, a 2-man unit inside the Pentagon designed to cook the books and give him what he wanted - fabrications. That's how he ended up making a monkey of himself with figments of his own imagination, like the Nigerian Yellowcake...

[Pooky 3,843]

in 67, Egypt decided to declare war on Israel

Egypt didn't get that far, although in all probability they would have. Israel didn't give them that chance.

Israeli Weapons.com link

[sara..... 371]

I think going to war with any country for any reason other than they have attacked our country or pose a grave security threat is unacceptable.

As to the subject of, where most of the soldiers Christians. Who knows. Many faiths among out military. I suspect less than half are practicing Christians. The point you miss is they are not there for religious reasons. Muslims are killing and committing acts of terrorism as acts of religious faith.

As for the WMD. There was a lot of evidence they were there. Many from both sides of the aisle thought they were. We know they had them at one point so where are they ?

i didnt miss the point of them not being there for religious reasons......but the point you dont understand is the terrorist that EVERYONE is against are not practicing the true islam no matter what they spout off...they take bits and pieces of the quran to justify what they are doing much like people that hate islam take bits and pieces of the quran to justify their hatred of us and try to prove we are about hate with out doing the same thing with the their bible that is just as harsh as the quran is in places.....as for as the WMDs i think some education for our government is in order.....saddam was one of the worst people there was so i am not defending him.......but he could not come out and say when he got rid of the WMDs look what countries he had on each side of him.....for him to admit anything would have brought those countries down on top of him so fast because he seriously had nothing left to protect his country in case of invasion.......when we the USA go into other countries it dont matter if those that go are practicing christians or not its the fact that every muslim country that has been invaded by our christan solders considers it an act of christian against muslim much as most people hate most of us muslims because of what terrorist do in the name of islam......we could set and argue the point all day long but the fact of the matter is we had no business going into iraq....we were not attacked by iraq if the iraq people wanted to be rid of their leader it was up to them to do it.........we tore that country apart it is now more unsafe for women and men than it was before we went there then we call the people fighting against our invasion terrorist? really?

i personally dont care what religion anyone is its the way that people treat me or others that i look at........no person should judge a religion based on a few bad apples that reek terror on others

we have traveled a lot to different countries including india......i heard about how bad kashmir was then we went there i was in shock over what i saw and it was NOT the muslims that made the problem there.........

Edited September 9, 2012 by sara.....

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I am always civil until the 15th when my Meds run out LOL

Do you really think most Muslims denounce women's oppression hate terrorism and are tolerant of other faiths. If most where, we would not have all the problems we have in the middle east and most any where else you have a large Muslim population.

Yes, I believe that most of the world's Muslims denounce what they perceive as oppression against women and terrorism, and are tolerant of other faiths. (Examples of Pakistan or Saudia Arabia aside, as they are not the "norm" for "most Muslims.") If you ever go to the West Bank, you will notice all the Christian churches around. And it ain't the Muslims who are attacking them, vandalizing them, or building apartheid walls around them....

This is just one of many quotes from Ahmadinejad on Israel.. Pretty clear isn't it .

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/18/world/middleeast/in-iran-ahmadinejad-calls-israel-insult-to-humankind.html

The very existence of the Zionist regime is an insult to humankind and an affront to all world nations,” the news agency’s English-language report on the speech quoted him as saying. “Confronting Zionists will also pave the way for saving the whole humankind from exploitation, depravity and misery.” In another passage, Mr. Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying that Jerusalem Day, which the Iranians call Quds Day after the city’s Arabic name, was “an occasion for all human communities to wipe out this scarlet letter, meaning the Zionist regime, from the forehead of humanity.”

That doesn't say anything about Iran "blowing Israel off the map." Ahmadinejad is referring to the government of Israel and saying it needs to go - just like how the U.S. (and Israel) talk about the government of Iran needing to go, as well as Syria, and Libya... and before that, Afghanistan, and before that, Iraq.... etc. etc. The difference is: Ahmadinejad hasn't threatened to invade anyone (unlike the U.S. and Israel) - he is calling for the international community to repudiate the Zionist regime.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I don't disagree with you. Many Christians in this country are perverting the faith to preach hatred . The difference is that here they are just irritating and we laugh at them. In many Muslim countries those wing nuts are running the country.

There is a reason we have separation of church and state and we don't allow the ten commandments to be hung in courtrooms. In most Muslim countries religious law is the law of the land.

Yeah it's just on the Supreme Court.

If Americans didn't want religious laws (such as the U.S. laws against gay marriage) then maybe more of them would be demanding their laws be changed. By the same token, if Muslim people want religious laws in their countries, then that's their right, too. An American-style legal system is not required for a functional society.

God is great!

+1 from me

Perfect example. I am going to my wife's home in 2 weeks. It is fairly safe to travel anywhere in the Philippines except guess where. You got it the Muslim controlled parts of the Country.

""" Before the argument starts I understand there are places in Cebu Luzon, etc you don't go but it is pockets, just like you have here in the states not whole provinces".

Meanwhile, it's perfectly safe to travel to many Muslim countries and other "Muslim areas." While many non-Muslim countries and non-Muslim areas are not safe. How can that be ??????

Simple question.. What county rules most of what use to be Palestine ?

Israel. (Did you not know this ????)