Romney lied about his taxes in 2002. He's probably lying about them again.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

When freeloaders are told that there's no more freeloading, they tend to complain.

[rocks 494]

When freeloaders are told that there's no more freeloading, they tend to complain.

It's funny how it is the republicans complaining. I thought it was all the "socialists" that wanted free stuff?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Obamacare = Middle Class tax hike?

Fine folks over at Forbes (I know, they're all just dirty hippies and commies) and the man that wants to challenge Obama in November (yet another dirty hippie) all disagree with this idiotic RWN narrative.

As Cantor was busily pushing the all new and improved GOP death panel misdirection—the 2012 version being that Obamacare turns out to be nothing but a tax on the middle class—Todd hit him right between the eyes with the following question;

Is paying a speeding ticket the same as paying a tax?

The question could not be more on point nor more illustrative of the circumstances.

Ask yourself why there are fines for driving in excess of the speed limit. I think we can all agree that the fine exists to motivate you and I to follow the traffic law. Why? Because people driving their cars too fast leads to people being hurt and that, in the estimation of sane people everywhere, is not in the public interest for people to drive at speeds that are more likely to lead to traffic deaths and injuries. (Note that I already anticipate some of your comments suggesting that, in my case, such a traffic accident might serve that public interest.)

What you have, however, is a choice when it comes to driving in excess of the speed limit.

You can choose to follow the law and not exceed that 45 mile per hour speed limit—in which case you will not be presented with a bill for the penalty that comes with getting pinched for speeding—or you can decide to exceed the speed limit and, should you get caught, pay up.

Would you call that charge a penalty or a tax?

In all the years I served as a traffic court judge (yes, a part of my odd past), I never once heard a defendant appearing before me refer to the fine I was about to impose as a “middle class tax”— even if that individual was a member of the middle class. And while you may stretch your best to now determine that a speeding fine is—somehow—a tax, even though that never would have occurred to you before Thursday’s Supreme Court ruling, we all know that you would simply be working overtime to make an argument that does not hold up in the annals of life’s rules of common sense.

So, how is the speeding ticket penalty different than what the Affordable Care Act requires as a penalty for not purchasing health insurance?

It’s not.

The law—which has now been upheld by the Supreme Court—says that you are legally obliged to purchase health insurance—just as we are all legally obligated to follow the traffic rules and regulations. And while you may vehemently disagree with the wisdom of Obamacare and those responsible for passing it, it is the law because, in the judgment of the majority of Congress and the President, it was in the public interest to make this the law. Welcome to America where law is made by a majority of Congress and the Presidential signature.

You now have a choice just as you did when deciding if you should drive faster than permitted.

You can honor the law and buy the insurance, in which case there will be no penalty, tax or whatever you care to call it. Or, you can elect to dishonor the law, not buy health insurance and face paying the penalty the law prescribes for not complying with that law.

I don’t know about how it works where you live, but I find that paying my federal, state and local taxes is never an optional exercise where I am presented with choices. Unlike the individual mandate requirements where I can choose to follow the law or pay the penalty, or the speeding laws where I can choose to honor the speed limit or risk a penalty, I have yet to be given a choice of either paying the taxes or seeing what is behind door number one—unless door number one happens to be the opening to a jail cell.

That is my idea of a tax and it is clearly not what we see arriving with the insurance mandate.

Now, I get that the clarity in the logic of what is really going on here won’t be worth a hill of beans when it comes to the political benefits to be gained by selling Americans on the notion that, somehow, they are being subjected to a new, middle class tax—even though what they are actually being subjected to is a choice to follow the law or break it at the expense of paying the fine, penalty, tax, etc.

In other words, it’s no different than a speeding ticket.

And for those of you who will argue that the anology fails because the penalty for failing to buy insurance is more expensive than any speeding ticket you’ve ever seen (I’ve gotten that argument a few times today), a couple of thoughts—

First, it’s not.

I have issued fines for speeding and reckless driving that greatly exceeded the average penalty prescribed under the ACA. Secondly, if it is all about the size of the penalty, does that mean that we should each get to ignore or check out on our obligations when it comes to following the traffic laws when the judge fines you $5 more than what you happen to think you should have been charged?

The bottom line here is if you want to be snookered into the new, fast moving GOP narrative born out of their response to the Supreme Court ruling, nothing I’m going to say is likely to deter you. You will, no doubt, find fellowship among those who want to believe that the healthcare reform law is bad for America and will take any bit of false dogma on its face if it purports to validate their anti-Obamacare beliefs.

But now that you’ve read this, you and I are always going to know that selling this dishwashing soap branded, “Obamacare is a tax on the middle class” is nothing more than an exercise in misleading.

If that works for you, as I said, there is little I can do about it. But you know it’s nonsense… and so do I.

UPDATE: (Monday morning) Some support for this position from an unexpected source:

Mitt Romney’s senior adviser Eric Fehrnstrom told Chuck Todd on MSNBC’s Daily Rundown that he agrees – the fee is a penalty and not a tax, as the Supreme Court ruled last week.

“The governor disagreed with the ruling of the court,” Fehrnstrom said. “He agreed with the dissent that was written by Justice [Antonin] Scalia, which very clearly stated that the mandate was not a tax.”

[SMOKE 1,426]

Nope, you are.

no. you, obama, and everyone that claims it isn't a tax are lying. it is a tax...thats how it passed as being constitutional, remember?

[rocks 494]

no. you, obama, and everyone that claims it isn't a tax are lying. it is a tax...thats how it passed as being constitutional, remember?

It isn't a tax. I'm not being taxed for it.

[SMOKE 1,426]

It isn't a tax. I'm not being taxed for it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2012/06/28/obamacare-ruling-may-be-bad-news-for-stressed-tax-code/

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

no. you, obama, and everyone that claims it isn't a tax are lying. it is a tax...thats how it passed as being constitutional, remember?

The SCOTUS has not dealth with Obamacare. They rendered a decision on PPACA. SCOTUS dealt with the individual insurance mandate which is part of the law and it dealt with the enforcement mecahnism of that mandate. It held that this mandate and the enforcement mechanism is constitutional based on Congress' taxing authority. That is a far cry from calling the PPACA a tax. It's a health care reform law. It's really not that difficult to grasp.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Mr. Big Dog

[rocks 494]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2012/06/28/obamacare-ruling-may-be-bad-news-for-stressed-tax-code/

I'm not being taxed for it. Seems like you're whining because you aren't responsible enough to get insurance. Do you drive a vehicle? Do you have insurance for it? Do you whine about that being a tax too?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2012/06/28/obamacare-ruling-may-be-bad-news-for-stressed-tax-code/

If it's a tax on the middle class, seeing that I am part of that group, it would follow that I am now paying a tax. I am not paying any tax I haven't paid before. Besides, you mentioned 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 - the individual insurance mandate hasn't kicked in yet.

[mawilson 2,133]

But it won't be taxing me, so how is it a tax? Taxes I pay: Federal, SS, Medicare, State.

But it will be taxing me to pay for your Obamacare.

It isn't a tax. I'm not being taxed for it.

Because you're a poor schmuck.

If you had investments and had dividend income, you'd be taxed for it.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

But it will be taxing me to pay for your Obamacare.

Most people already have their insurance and you won't be paying for them. Rest assured, you're not paying for my insurance. I take care of that myself. Now, you and I both pay for the uninsured today and have done so for decades. Time that those that can pick up their own slack.

Because you're a poor schmuck.

If you had investments and had dividend income, you'd be taxed for it.

I have dividend income and I won't be taxed for it. And while I'm not awesomely wealthy, I don't consider myself a poor schmuck.

[SMOKE 1,426]

I'm not being taxed for it. Seems like you're whining because you aren't responsible enough to get insurance. Do you drive a vehicle? Do you have insurance for it? Do you whine about that being a tax too?

i'm not whining. i have insurance. you're being you again.

If it's a tax on the middle class, seeing that I am part of that group, it would follow that I am now paying a tax. I am not paying any tax I haven't paid before. Besides, you mentioned 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 - the individual insurance mandate hasn't kicked in yet.

he claimed he wouldn't raise taxes in 2008, 09, 10, 11. he raised taxes with the legislation regardless of when it takes effect. he raised taxes on the middle class. period.

[rocks 494]

Most people already have their insurance and you won't be paying for them. Rest assured, you're not paying for my insurance. I take care of that myself. Now, you and I both pay for the uninsured today and have done so for decades. Time that those that can pick up their own slack.

I have dividend income and I won't be taxed for it. And while I'm not awesomely wealthy, I don't consider myself a poor schmuck.

I pay for my own insurance, it isn't a tax.

mawilson thinks he knows everything. I'm glad he thinks he knows everything about my financial background, it's cute that hes so obsessed.

i'm not whining. i have insurance. you're being you again.

he claimed he wouldn't raise taxes in 2008, 09, 10, 11. he raised taxes with the legislation regardless of when it takes effect. he raised taxes on the middle class. period.

You are whining. It isn't a tax.

[JohnR! 5,495]

I have dividend income and I won't be taxed for it.

.

Mitt? Is that you????.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

he claimed he wouldn't raise taxes in 2008, 09, 10, 11. he raised taxes with the legislation regardless of when it takes effect. he raised taxes on he middle class. period.

He did not raise taxes on the middle class. Quite the contrary, actually. But you don't do facts...