Islamophoibia in the US

[^_^ 5,021]

tl;dr

[JohnR! 5,495]

Therein lies the difference then, doesn't it?

This doesn't seem like the same "God of Abraham" of Islam. At least, it doesn't to me. "God of Abraham" may be the same title, but the title is about all they would have in common.

By the way, don't think I'll hold it against you that you believe these are the same God. Christians just have their reasons for disagreeing with this common new theme people keep throwing out there that they are the same God. They are not.

Also, most Christians study Judaism in depth as they believe the Tanakh holds the same authority as the New Testament.

I'll admit I have not studied the Quran much. If you'd like to point out to me resources, by all means. I'm always willing to learn more. I personally think that I'm not splitting hairs over minor matters. The fundamentals between the Chrstian God and Islamic God are completely different, while the name "God of Abraham" remains the only thing similar between the entities. At least muslims are monotheistic; then again, so is Shaitan (Satan).

You are correct. All three sister religions - Islam, Christianity and Judeism - worship god in different ways. Their relationship with god is different, for each draws on its own mythology. That however does not make for three different gods.

At least Judeism and Islam agree on the same god. It seems, as you point out, it may be the Christians who are worshiping a completely different god, one who believes the Torah and the New Testament not to be mutually exclusive in many instances.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

For me - Seeing is believing.

Have you seen God?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Have you seen God?

I saw Jesus and he talked to me. He only said, "Tell them!"

So I asked, "Tell them what?" Then he was gone.

Not enough to write my own Bible, so sorry, can't help you.

[JohnR! 5,495]

I saw Jesus and he talked to me. He only said, "Tell them!"

So I asked, "Tell them what?" Then he was gone.

Not enough to write my own Bible, so sorry, can't help you.

Same thing happened to me. It seems we were both victims of 'tell them and run' ......

[bsd058 296]

You are correct. All three sister religions - Islam, Christianity and Judeism - worship god in different ways. Their relationship with god is different, for each draws on its own mythology. That however does not make for three different gods.

At least Judeism and Islam agree on the same god. It seems, as you point out, it may be the Christians who are worshiping a completely different god, one who believes the Torah and the New Testament not to be mutually exclusive in many instances.

I agree that Christianity is the oddball out in terms of its ontology of God, its anthropology, among other things. The ontology of God is being discussed here, and while it may seem on the surface that Christians serve a strange God, in fact it is the same God of Judaism who brought Israel out of Egypt. The reason I believe that Islam does not serve the same God, is because I believe Islam to be man made only. Not of God, and heresy. They serve no God at all. Not to say that they don't think they serve God. I'm just trying to show why I disagree and give perspective. If they serve anyone, it's themselves. But this is the case of anyone who has not been born of God. Those are considered dead in sin and incapable of pleasing God at all. Still, no matter what you get from what I've typed out here, please understand that none of it is meant to make you angry or to hurt your feelings or anythign of the sort. I'm only trying to give you perspective from a Christian worldview as best I can.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I saw Jesus and he talked to me. He only said, "Tell them!"

So I asked, "Tell them what?" Then he was gone.

Not enough to write my own Bible, so sorry, can't help you.

That's great. I was just wondering if Danno has actually seen God. He must have. He claims to believe in God and he says that for him it's "seeing is believing". It follows that he must have seen God in order to believe in God. I merely wanted him to confirm my understanding.

[JohnR! 5,495]

I agree that Christianity is the oddball out in terms of its ontology of God, its anthropology, among other things. The ontology of God is being discussed here, and while it may seem on the surface that Christians serve a strange God, in fact it is the same God of Judaism who brought Israel out of Egypt. The reason I believe that Islam does not serve the same God, is because I believe Islam to be man made only. Not of God, and heresy. They serve no God at all. Not to say that they don't think they serve God. I'm just trying to show why I disagree and give perspective. If they serve anyone, it's themselves. But this is the case of anyone who has not been born of God. Those are considered dead in sin and incapable of pleasing God at all. Still, no matter what you get from what I've typed out here, please understand that none of it is meant to make you angry or to hurt your feelings or anythign of the sort. I'm only trying to give you perspective from a Christian worldview as best I can.

Don't worry for I don't take any of these discussions personally. I am in fact I am an atheist and that gives me the ability to look at religion from a very objective point of view. I have no skin in thei game so I base my comments on scriptures, books and historic accounts. It surprises me however how many so-called faithfull don't even know their own religion.

By the same token, you can understand that many believe Christianity to be man made and self serving, especially when you look at its history of persecution, torture and abject adoration for money, wealth and power, throughout history to its present day.

The issue is not that at all. The issue is that all thre religions believe and teach the golden rule, which is only natural, for they all claim - so that we leave room for interpretation - to worship the same god. All of them have bad elements who give them a bad reputation. None of them is free of abuse, carnage and other man made excuse to exploit and subjugate other humans.

[sandinista! 1,816]

I agree that Christianity is the oddball out in terms of its ontology of God, its anthropology, among other things. The ontology of God is being discussed here, and while it may seem on the surface that Christians serve a strange God, in fact it is the same God of Judaism who brought Israel out of Egypt. The reason I believe that Islam does not serve the same God, is because I believe Islam to be man made only. Not of God, and heresy. They serve no God at all. Not to say that they don't think they serve God. I'm just trying to show why I disagree and give perspective. If they serve anyone, it's themselves. But this is the case of anyone who has not been born of God. Those are considered dead in sin and incapable of pleasing God at all. Still, no matter what you get from what I've typed out here, please understand that none of it is meant to make you angry or to hurt your feelings or anythign of the sort. I'm only trying to give you perspective from a Christian worldview as best I can.

you have some decidedly unorthodox ideas of mainstream Judaism's take on Jesus (pbuh), to say the least. i always find it fascinating when i see this crop up among certain Christians, this total re-molding of of another group of people's religious narrative.. it often coincides with little to no understanding of Islam whatsoever, and the condemnation of Muslims for their monotheism that is virtually in lockstep with that of mainstream Judaism. but only the Muslims are heretics, and it's totes different from 2000 years of mainstream Jewish rejection of all things Jesus (pbuh), all the time.

[SaharaSunset 165]

there are other significant differences. how we deal with sin and attonement, for instance. how we treat unbelievers, how we treat criminals, how we treat children, etc. the bible has a new testament, in which all the rules are turned upside down because of the sacrifice of a man/god. what in islam compares?

True. But I wasn't meaning to go into a thorough cataloging of similarities and differences - of course there are many. If we are talking in VERY over-simplified generalities, pretty much all religions share the theme of being good a person, being good to other people, and ultimately striving to achieve a perfect state of being - be that heaven, paradise, or Nirvana..etc. Take out all the details of how to achieve that, and most religions would find that they share common goals. Jesus is just, in my opinion, one of the most significant "details" that creates a hurdle in finding common ground between religions - but is by no means the only difference. Now, that all being said, the "details" are what define the different religions. I fully understand that. But as I said before, it seems to me that most religions have the same general end goal, and perhaps if that was the focus, more than the the different detail, perhaps we all might get along a little better. I'm an idealist.

[SaharaSunset 165]

I agree that Christianity is the oddball out in terms of its ontology of God, its anthropology, among other things. The ontology of God is being discussed here, and while it may seem on the surface that Christians serve a strange God, in fact it is the same God of Judaism who brought Israel out of Egypt. The reason I believe that Islam does not serve the same God, is because I believe Islam to be man made only. Not of God, and heresy. They serve no God at all. Not to say that they don't think they serve God. I'm just trying to show why I disagree and give perspective. If they serve anyone, it's themselves. But this is the case of anyone who has not been born of God. Those are considered dead in sin and incapable of pleasing God at all. Still, no matter what you get from what I've typed out here, please understand that none of it is meant to make you angry or to hurt your feelings or anythign of the sort. I'm only trying to give you perspective from a Christian worldview as best I can.

Not sure what "perspective" of Christianity this is supposed to be...but I'm Christian, and its not my perspective or my worldview regarding Islam and the nature of God. I'm sure you really aren't meaning to upset anyone...but its best to own your perspective as your own...and not claim it as The Christian world view. And its just a little precarious to make statements in the name of a massive and complex religion. Kind of like its precarious when extremists commit acts of terror in the name of Islam...gives way to many people the wrong idea about an entire faith, based on one or more persons personal interpretation of their religion. While perhaps your comments were based on your interpretation of Christianity, I don't know of any Christian doctrine that specifically singles out Muslims as being "dead in sin and incapable of pleasing God at all." Its just a slippery slope to make sweeping statements in the name of the Christian worldview.

Edited August 15, 2012 by SaharaSunset

[Danno 1,228]

That's great. I was just wondering if Danno has actually seen God. He must have. He claims to believe in God and he says that for him it's "seeing is believing". It follows that he must have seen God in order to believe in God. I merely wanted him to confirm my understanding.

Aw ya got me.

Well not really, we need only see convincing evidence or logical conclusion to rightly believe.

I believe George Washington was the first president... though I have never seen him.

[bsd058 296]

you have some decidedly unorthodox ideas of mainstream Judaism's take on Jesus (pbuh), to say the least. i always find it fascinating when i see this crop up among certain Christians, this total re-molding of of another group of people's religious narrative.. it often coincides with little to no understanding of Islam whatsoever, and the condemnation of Muslims for their monotheism that is virtually in lockstep with that of mainstream Judaism. but only the Muslims are heretics, and it's totes different from 2000 years of mainstream Jewish rejection of all things Jesus (pbuh), all the time.

I've studied historical Judaism and historical Christianity. I am just showing you from the perspective of a Christian how a Christian views Jews and Muslims. I haven't remolded anything.

I take the Tanakh as the word of God. I've just applied a Christian interpretation to it. All of Christendom is based on this. It's not novel. It's not a view unique to me. It's a view the first Christians had (who were, by the way, Jews). This is not to say modern day Jews (non-Christian Jews) are not considered heretics by Christians. They are. Anyone who rejects the notion that Jesus is God in the flesh believes heresy. Heresy is a belief that if followed through to its logical end, would end up damning that specific person's soul.

We Christians understand that for now, the Jews' eyes (in general, not in totality) have been blinded so that they would not come to salvation. God has literally blocked the way for many of them for now. This is not to say that some Jews are not accpeted by God. Some come to Christ having the blinders lifted so that they have eyes to see and ears to hear. I don't know if there will come a time when the Jewish religion will officially declare Jesus as the Son of God, but it's not for me to know those things. I don't presume to know God's full plan for humanity. I just need to follow him. That's all I can do.

Thanks for the discussion. Christians should not be viewed as a different religion from Judaism. At least not from a Christian perspective. Gentile (non-Jewish) Christians are to be seen as adopted Jews. Grafted into the family of God (new Israelites) and saved by his Son Jesus in order to take part in the blessings that Israel was given because of their father Abraham. Jewish Christians see themselves as true Jews. Ones who have truly accepted their God and believe on Christ. Jews who do not accept Christ we view as cut off from God's people and are in error, until God breathes into them life and they believe.

Anyways, I'll leave you with the last word if you like.

[bsd058 296]

Don't worry for I don't take any of these discussions personally. I am in fact I am an atheist and that gives me the ability to look at religion from a very objective point of view. I have no skin in thei game so I base my comments on scriptures, books and historic accounts. It surprises me however how many so-called faithfull don't even know their own religion.

By the same token, you can understand that many believe Christianity to be man made and self serving, especially when you look at its history of persecution, torture and abject adoration for money, wealth and power, throughout history to its present day.

The issue is not that at all. The issue is that all thre religions believe and teach the golden rule, which is only natural, for they all claim - so that we leave room for interpretation - to worship the same god. All of them have bad elements who give them a bad reputation. None of them is free of abuse, carnage and other man made excuse to exploit and subjugate other humans.

Fair enough. They do in fact teach the golden rule. Thanks for the discussion.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I am so upset. Seeing this today made my stomach literally lurch.

http://abclocal.go.c...article-8769862

How do y'all deal with Islamophobia in the US?

How in the flying frig did that ad make it on a bus in the baston of American liberal stupidity named San Fransisco.

Just for the record. It's hard to coexists with people who want to convert you or kill you