CFO Counseling Requirement has no legal basis

[actob99 156]

Daren asked about domestic problem and said he taught his wife what to do etc...not the cfo. He even asked his wife what to do in case he will abuse her. So i dont think mimi and gray was implying that in fact mimi and gray compliment darren for teaching his wife those things in case he will abuse her which mimi and gray didnt need to do bcoz he got a smart wife. what am i implying for?

Nothing. Hehehe.

What is your point?

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

Yes she does, fortunately I have a smart wife. She would be very able to handle that. It is good you taught your wife what to do when you abuse her.

LOL, great reply. And while I said what I said "tongue in cheek", I was half-serious... how many women actually know how to contact their embassy in the US? Or what state it is even in? And as Messy said, contacting someone in the embassy is NOT easy (which is why I said that above). Women in a foreign country are much more likely to become victims, and that is what the basis for the CFO should be, to actually help them, not brainwash, make up stories, try to scare them, or state things that are not factual. And that is why Rlogan started this thread. Can we change the CFO from over here? IDK... but if no one tries, it will never happen, particularly in a country where the mentality is to "fall in line" when it comes to the government.

But in our case, and from what Rlogan posted, and Messybrownhair, and a few others, the CFO seems to be just a way to extort money and/or scare women. THAT is not a good cause, by any means.

Could my wife figure out how to contact the embassy? Sure she can, she's more than smart enough. But could she actually get help in a timely manner if things went sour for her here? I seriously doubt it. She would most likely get help from friends and family long before the PI embassy. That's my firm belief. What she learned at the CFO will have done NOTHING for her, except waste time in Manila.

What is your point?

I think they meant me, not Darren

That was his intentions, he always likes to go off topic.

To whom are you referring?

[actob99 156]

To whom are you referring?

Gary's sarcasm. I agree with what you said.

[Loolie 56]

Oh sorry daven... Not daren. Anyway, i would suggest to call and complain directly to cfo. Like acto99 since your fiancee is still in the philippines then ask her to complain about the person conducted the seminar. I dont think giving opinion against cfo here in the forum will change how cfo works neither signing a petition... You call them or go there personally (how can we go we are here in the US) then why didnt you complain when your fiancee was still in the philippines?

I would think that if they get a lot of complains then they might do something about what you think is wrong in what they are doing. Do it not just say it. Then if you cant do it then just "fall in line" with us then which all of us did hahahaha.

[RobNKharen 70]

<---------brings in BIG spoon

A one time friend of mine said something during one of his normal aluminum can induced hazes that at first severely offended me, but over time has been hard to refute. His words, not mine:

"The Philippines is a backward third world country, ruled by corruption, and inhabited submissive sheep." "You can accept it, deny it, or rebel against it, but the fact remains I speak the truth and it will always be this way."

The CFO seminar, airport exit tax, exit visa etc. are all examples that support his statement..........as much as I hate it......his statement is dam hard to refute. No one questions the legality, they simply do as they are told and collect a few pesoes.

[sparkygirl 6]

<---------brings in BIG spoon

A one time friend of mine said something during one of his normal aluminum can induced hazes that at first severely offended me, but over time has been hard to refute. His words, not mine:

"The Philippines is a backward third world country, ruled by corruption, and inhabited submissive sheep." "You can accept it, deny it, or rebel against it, but the fact remains I speak the truth and it will always be this way."

The CFO seminar, airport exit tax, exit visa etc. are all examples that support his statement..........as much as I hate it......his statement is dam hard to refute. No one questions the legality, they simply do as they are told and collect a few pesoes.

Philippine history itself talks about how the country is politically unstable. Several attempts and successes in overthrowing the status quo or the political leaders have been done, this is to refute the statement saying the country is inhabited by submissive sheep. As i have stated earlier, the CFO as a body, is based on a legal mandate. It is founded upon the Batas Pambansa 79, hence it cannot be said that the Commission is illegal. The power to tax is an inherent power of EVERY state, whether you like it or not, you are bound by it.

[GaryKO 49]

Gary's sarcasm. I agree with what you said.

You people have no sense of humor, I knew what Daven was saying, just I thought it funny he said that he was teaching his wife what to do if he abused her. My wife said they told her to contact the Philipine embassy, I did not say that was the right thing to do. Guess at CFO they don't know about 911. In the Philippines you abuse some women you may wake up dead. I think my wife is one of them.

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

I thought it was funny, too, Gary. No harm taken on this end. And while I have no intention of abusing her (except in the kitchen, daily), I DO feel it's only fair to ensure she knows how to take care of herself. I might die next year, and she might hook up with an abusive person. If she was in the PI, she would just slit his throat and dump the body, or pay a friend 500php to get 'er dun. Not so easy here.

I asked her to show me all her CFO stuff, and there was one small leaflet showing PI consulate numbers in the US. We might try calling them Monday and seeing if there is actually any help to be had at all for a damsel in distress (just to test the theory of a consulate being reachable, let alone willing/able to help someone). Personally, I think 911 would be a much better "quick fix", but in the event a woman were to get here, and her fiance' dumped on her at day 88, I wonder how much help the consulate would be in getting her home?

But this is a little off topic, sorry Rlogan. While I agree with your concept in spirit, I think RobnKharen may have hit the nail on the head. Bringing about a change to CFO would probably take a lot of time and perhaps even presence in the PI. I DID discover that the CFO gave my wife a sort of survey sheet to fill out and return to report her experience in coming here, and I will make sure she fills it out and emails it back to them. That is ONE way we can help combat the poor image that CFO gives us.

[Messybrownhair 251]

FYI I did complain while I was there. Not sure it worked but I wrote to BDO to complain that they should not partner with PRISM and spread false info about needing a bank account when they know its not true. I received a response saying they will look into the matter. Probably never did lol. Back then there were like 50 of us in one room and they convinced like 48 of them to open one. I refused, as did another lady. Plus you needed php100 to open the account. No way lol

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

For those who have already been through, or who are about to pay for the revolting CFO seminar, it appears to me that it has no legal basis, and was invented without authority by the Department of Foreign Affairs. You're still going to have to do it because there are armed guards with guns who have been told by their superiors to enforce this phony requirement, but I think we need to spread the word this is a Department that has imposed a tax and restriction upon travel without legal basis and should be abolished. I think it can, certainly much more easily than reversing an Act.

The requirement pretends to be an "implementing regulation" of the Philippines Passport Act of 1996, which can be read in full here:

Philippines Passport Act 1996

Look through that Act and observe there is not ONE WORD about requiring counseling for Philippinos marrying foreigners. The way law works in the Philippines, the legislature can pass an act, like the Passport Act, and direct the Department of Foreign Affairs to come up with "implementing regulations", in this case within 60 days of the Act. But the Department of Foreign Affairs cannot invent some new requirement beyond what the Act allowed. Otherwise any rogue department can simply make up whatever regulations it wants, regardless of what an Act says, and charge whatever fees they feel like charging - making themselves dictators, without any semblance of democracy.

That's what the DFA did here. Despite not one word in the Act requiring any kind of seminar/counseling for fiances or spouses of foreigners, the DFA just wrote it into their implementing regulations without authority. It is contained within D.O. 11-97, the implementing regulations, saying this:

The other important illegal aspect of this requirement is that it represents a tax on certain Philippino citizens without legislative authority: they not only force this "counseling" upon you, but you have to pay them for it. Yet, to date there has been no legislative authority for this tax. The CFO is just doing it because they are getting away with it. They have been pretending that the Philippines Passport Act gave them the power to restrict the rights of immigration for those who are marrying abroad, and impose a tax on them without basis in law.

In short, they invented a regulation to line their pockets with gold from foreign marriages.

I certainly invite someone with a good legal background to steer us to contrary information. I would happily stand corrected. But there is no question the Act they claim to be implementing says nothing about the little baby Filipino citizens being so stupid they need mommy government to counsel them on their marriage to a foreigner.

One very important advice: explaining this to the bureaucrat at the seminar violates the premises of Slavery. A slave never questions authority. A slave never shows he knows more than his master. A Slave cheerfully accepts all orders, thanking the Master for his infinite wisdom and kindness. This is the kind of information, if divulged, guarantees you flunk the seminar. The person in front of you is making their living from this illegal minor oppression. They take a five minute Jeepney trip to work from home. You traveled hundreds of miles by ship, have to stay in a hotel, and eat more expensive food, etc. - spend thousands of pesos in addition to days of your time just to put a few hundred pesos in their pockets. Like a 10:1 ratio of your actual expenses over the wages they extort from you. But that's part of the power trip for them - knowing how much they put you through before arriving at their feet, on your knees for their precious stamp.

I am not familiar enough with Filipino law to understand how regulations in violation of the laws they supposedly implement are reversed. It is obvious that immigrants would rather pay this extortion than mount a court challenge to it and spend a couple of years doing that instead of immigrating and marrying. A class action suit abolishing the regulation and getting our money back plus an apology - I'm down for that. But I would prefer we could send the people that wrote it to a re-education camp run by North Korea.

Your titling at Windmills Don...

[dagnylet 0]

I am the yet to take my CFO seminar. I understand your points but reality check here is that they are the ones in authority. Whether they are wrong or not does not matter. And if we filipinos try to question them, there will be a harsh consequence for us... at the end of the seminar, they coould choose not to give a stamp, which means we cannot leave the country.

[sparkygirl 6]

I am the yet to take my CFO seminar. I understand your points but reality check here is that they are the ones in authority. Whether they are wrong or not does not matter. And if we filipinos try to question them, there will be a harsh consequence for us... at the end of the seminar, they coould choose not to give a stamp, which means we cannot leave the country.

we can question them with respect to activities they try to inject during the seminars ie selling that damn booklet, opening up a bdo bank account or asking for other fees outside the fees posted in their website. but to question the legality of the commission itself is impossible because it is founded upon a legal basis.

they have no power to prevent us from leaving the country by depriving us that precious stamp. for as long as we complied with attending that seminar then the commission is powerless to stop us from leaving. our constitution protects our right to travel and freedom of abode, so no worries.

these ppl love to power trip, don't be afraid of them, don't be intimidated by them. Like i said, our constitution guarantees our right to travel and freedom of abode.

[actob99 156]

I am the yet to take my CFO seminar. I understand your points but reality check here is that they are the ones in authority. Whether they are wrong or not does not matter. And if we filipinos try to question them, there will be a harsh consequence for us... at the end of the seminar, they coould choose not to give a stamp, which means we cannot leave the country.

I would do what you needed to do to get that stamp. But as an educated person, if you disputed something they said or they stated false facts, I would call them on it as a person who believed in the truth. I would definetly not buy a packet or open a bank account as some have said is part of their agenda. Siempre talaga, "It's up to you."

[BruceL 1]

What an fantastic thread!

A great example of American/Philippine culture clash.

The OP has a fantastic point and illustrates exactly what you can expect here in the US. It's OK to question authority and not so OK to just let them do whatever they want.

Welcome to the USA (soon!!)

[Tintin and Mike 127]

What an fantastic thread!

A great example of American/Philippine culture clash.

The OP has a fantastic point and illustrates exactly what you can expect here in the US. It's OK to question authority and not so OK to just let them do whatever they want.

Welcome to the USA (soon!!)

This is exactly the message I ended up saying to my fiance every time I talk smacked about the Philippine system. He said I'm too Americanized! LOL I told him that, wait until you get to US, you'll just laugh at all the debates we had and you'll totally agree with me

Anyways quick question, fiance's been in and out of the Philippines to work in Taiwan and South Korea prior to our K1 application, does he still need to do this CFO counseling session? Thanks in advance

Edited August 26, 2012 by tintin talaga