CFO Counseling Requirement has no legal basis

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

I'd sign a petition in a HEARTBEAT. Showed my wife this post, and she said, "It's the law, it must be done." Exactly what Rlogan is saying, the people there just "fall in line" and do what they are told. I'd be willing to bet that the folks at immigration just know to look at the passport, but have no idea if there is actually a LEGAL requirement for the CFO stamp at all. They have just grown accustomed to it.

Granted, it's not a lot of money. But even if these forums encompassed 50% of all the people required to attend (which I DOUBT), think of how much money the CFO is getting each year. 700php times 12 times 5 times 50 (leaving some room for holidays) is 2.1mil. Just to get to hear "horror stories" that won't change anyone's mind.

When questioned, my wife at first tried to say that CFO taught her how to handle a bad situation. But when I dug down, and asked her HOW to get away from me if I was abusing her, she had no idea. She DID watch videos of people taking nekkid pics and showing porn-like videos of "poor Pilipinas". She didn't even know what a swinger was, so perhaps THAT nun had the day off.

When I go back to the PI, perhaps I will attend a CFO seminar just to see what is actually going on, and question the "teachers" about their actual experiences with "bad Americans".

Edit: She DID get warned about swingers, but wasn't familiar with the term. But she DID get warned that I might want to share her around. Hay naku...

Edited August 9, 2012 by DavenRoxy

[actob99 156]

I'd sign a petition in a HEARTBEAT. Showed my wife this post, and she said, "It's the law, it must be done." Exactly what Rlogan is saying, the people there just "fall in line" and do what they are told. I'd be willing to bet that the folks at immigration just know to look at the passport, but have no idea if there is actually a LEGAL requirement for the CFO stamp at all. They have just grown accustomed to it.

Granted, it's not a lot of money. But even if these forums encompassed 50% of all the people required to attend (which I DOUBT), think of how much money the CFO is getting each year. 700php times 12 times 5 times 50 (leaving some room for holidays) is 2.1mil. Just to get to

hear "horror stories" that won't change anyone's mind.

When questioned, my wife at first tried to say that CFO taught her how to handle a bad situation. But when I dug down, and asked her HOW to get away from me if I was abusing her, she had no idea. She DID watch videos of people taking nekkid pics and showing porn-like videos of "poor Pilipinas". She didn't even know what a swinger was, so perhaps THAT nun had the day off.

When I go back to the PI, perhaps I will attend a CFO seminar just to see what is actually going on, and question the "teachers" about their actual experiences with "bad Americans"

Edit: She DID get warned about swingers, but wasn't familiar with the term. But she DID get warned that I might want to share her around. Hay naku...

Hay naku is right.. Too bad we are not allowed to attend too. Or maybe its good as we probably wouldn't be getting a sticker..

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

Hay naku is right.. Too bad we are not allowed to attend too. Or maybe its good as we probably wouldn't be getting a sticker..

I'd bring my OWN damn sticker. It would have a frowning yellow face, with the word BOBO! emblazoned on it!

[MangoAve 25]

I agree. I checked everywhere once I read a post on here about under 21 requiring parental consent to attend the seminar. The Manila (US) Embassy website said nothing. Whatever I could find on PH law, I could not find anything. The "philippine passport act of 1996" referenced in the CFO website says absolutely nothing in the rules of owning a passport that traveling overseas requires the CFO. The only thing I stumbled upon was something on the Korean (US) Embassy about parental consent. The Philippines is the only country that does this. And prob just because it's a way to make money. Someone on here had to go back to her island to obtain the consent form and go back to Manila to take the course. Some people are lucky to be in Manila metro area or Cebu City area in case they forget a document for the CFO. I even yawyaw that their site doesn't explain things like parental consent or a copy of the petitioner's passport is required. It just says "other documents as required by the officer".. #######.

People probably don't complain only because it is ~p9200 for the medical and now p11000 for the interview (going down from about p14700) that the p650 seems negligible.

[TnJ 131]

Part of the seminar is sharing some cases of filipina who was abused by thier foriegn spouses and if they told them about swingers so what? Whats the big deal out of it? Isnt it true that swingers exist? I honestly didnt know about swingers when i was in the philippines but when i got here i surely did know about it. If your not a swinger then let it go. The seminar is not for your own benefit really...its for the one who will go out of the country and live with a person with a different culture.

Believe me, my parents told me about all the wrongdoings in the world im sure every parents would do that but not all parents are educated enough to know where, how and what to do if something happen once their son or daughters are already out of the country. Im outta here.

No offense, but this post seems more of an apologetics for the propaganda machine. From all that I have read from others, the seminar is either a complete waste of time and money, or it is a torturous trial of perseverance through brainwash tactics.

I agree. I checked everywhere once I read a post on here about under 21 requiring parental consent to attend the seminar. The Manila (US) Embassy website said nothing. Whatever I could find on PH law, I could not find anything.

That's because it isn't there as far as I can tell either. The whole issue with them asking about parental consent or advice comes from the Philippines Family Code and was written for Filipino marriages in the Philippines. It seems to be simply taken out of context to add another hurdle for the unsuspecting CFO attendee. If it is going to be a requirement, they could at least be specific about it rather than including the vague "other documents" as necessary.

Edited August 9, 2012 by ToddnJessa

[MangoAve 25]

That's because it isn't there as far as I can tell either. The whole issue with them asking about parental consent or advice comes from the Philippines Family Code and was written for Filipino marriages in the Philippines. It seems to be simply taken out of context to add another hurdle for the unsuspecting CFO attendee. If it is going to be a requirement, they could at least be specific about it rather than including the vague "other documents" as necessary.

What I was mentioning were two things. I was agreeing with the OP about the CFO seminar doesn't even seem to be a law requirement. I'll agree to signing a petition. I would rather send that p650 to the beneficiary's family. The other thing is the requirements to even register to take the CFO is a second hurdle. That's where they should be specific about "other documents"... but this aspect shouldn't matter if the CFO be abolished.

Do they really think that only pinoy can be subject to abuse or their future spouse is a "swinger" as someone mentioned... or that 'swingers' only exist in one region of the world(cuz the CFO site says different class times for different destination country)? I read from a poster on vj about his fiance coming from a country other than Philippines and it was her new friends that influenced her to file VAWA charges against the petitioner. K1 based immigrants obvi don't need this semenar to know what to do based upon that. The only thing I can guess for it being done in the philippines is because almost 4x more US based K1 are issued there than any other country.

http://www.travel.state.gov/pdf/FY11NIVDetailTable.pdf

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

If there is a valid need to warn potential spouses of the dangers of sex, swinging, and violence outside the country, then every SINGLE resident of the PI should attend a CFO seminar about Angeles City.

[cardilene 26]

For me, its just a complete waste of money and just another source of corruption,

one way of taking money from Filipinos who are planning to go abroad.

Basically, the seminar would only narrate and explain to anyone the difference in culture

of the countries that you are about to go to, some laws, and rights of every individual.

I really have nothing against the seminar per se, but how they conduct the application process is the problem.

I cannot forget our experience then, me and my 2 teens, we went there very early in the morning,

only to be at the back end of a very LOOOOOOOONG line, I ended up attending the morning seminar,

but the teens ended up attending the afternoon seminar coz the morning session was full already for the children.

Good thing there was still an opening at the afternoon, but still, my teens had to wait in line because they

wouldn't accept the application still...

It would be a lot easier, if CFO would become BY APPOINTMENT and not first come first serve,

they should set a number of atendees, and just set the excess to a different time and day, it would be quite easier

for both the office, and the applicants that would be coming in from very far provinces...

Only in the Philippines,...

[Rob&Ema 12]

And here I felt bad for getting a shakedown for the 750 peso " terminal "fee just to be able to leave the country, however I would like to sit in on a seminar and hear what they say. If they knew an American was there, the story would probably be different that day.

[Loolie 56]

I never had any problem when i had my seminar in cebu. I think its just common sense that you should know the person your gonna live with not just their skype id or yahoo id or just thier name. Bring all the documents you think that they will need bcoz purely they dont know your foreign partner. I dont think they were brainwashing... Its the reality that is happening. And if your not like that dont whine about it. Just bcoz they are filipinos judging americans then you have to react already...dont americans judge filipinos too? If your not that kind of person they are talking about then i dont think you have to react.

If they will ask you whats the mothers maiden name of your foreign partner then you will answer...i dont know... Isnt it weird that you know and memorize the skype or yahoo id but you dont know the mothers maiden name of the person your gonna live with outside the country and the worst thing is your already gonna leave the country soon. Some people are just so excited to go out and not even knowing so much information about thier foreign spouses thats why i think the seminar is needed. okay im done. Hehehehe.

[Rob&Ema 12]

I don't think the op was whining in anyway, I think he was just calling to attention to the run amuk bureaucracy that is becoming more and more prevalent in todays times. In America, government is encroaching more and more into our daily lives and pockets.

Regulation this and requirement that. If no one draws an eye to it, it will continue to grow and to exert more control over our lives.

[actob99 156]

I never had any problem when i had my seminar in cebu. I think its just common sense that you should know the person your gonna live with not just their skype id or yahoo id or just thier name. Bring all the documents you think that they will need bcoz purely they dont know your foreign partner. I dont think they were brainwashing... Its the reality that is happening. And if your not like that dont whine about it. Just bcoz they are filipinos judging americans then you have to react already...dont americans judge filipinos too? If your not that kind of person they are talking about then i dont think you have to react.

If they will ask you whats the mothers maiden name of your foreign partner then you will answer...i dont know... Isnt it weird that you know and memorize the skype or yahoo id but you dont know the mothers maiden name of the person your gonna live with outside the country and the worst thing is your already gonna leave the country soon. Some people are just so excited to go out and not even knowing so much information about thier foreign spouses thats why i think the seminar is needed. okay im done. Hehehehe.

My mother lost her Maiden name when she married my father so that is irrelavent.

They don't need to know me, not the purpose of the seminar. The U.S knows me like nobody's business, thats why we were approved for the visa!!!

I would have to disagree on the brainwashing, isn't it a fact that telling a fiancee going to another country, that she is at high risk of being in a bad situation not brainwashing? Did this(teacher as my fiancee called her) have facts and base her knowledge and teachings on FACTS?

I don't judge filipino's, I'm marrying a filipina who is a person and I judge her as a person. Just like I judge everyone, as a person. Are you prejudice? Are you really making this an American- Filipino debate? Shame on you!!!! My do the very many filipino's I am close to that have had the exact seminar as you have, say the complete opposite? Their the ones I formed my initial biased opinion about this bola bola seminar.

And my question to you - WHat is the reality that I'm whinning about? Please explain or are you "outta here"?

I for one don't like corrupt governments, and yes they are all corrupt, pushing me around and telling me what to do while taking my money. And especially when it is legally not a requirement to getting my loved ones with me.

Lastly, please explain why Philippines IS THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD that conducts this? ANd please don't tell me becuase they are concerned for their citizens or I'm going to lose my lunch!

One more note - I just asked my fiancee what she would do if I brainwashed her, turned her into a swinger, tied her up was an ####### and she said, "I don't know". I then asked her, " WHat did the CFO seminar tell you?" SHe said, " I don't know, they really didn't cover that". Such a wise investment!!!!!

[GaryKO 49]

The CFO is still very necessary, and for the most part does a good job. Some that do not understand the ugly truth about the Philippines think this process is just a way for the government to make a few more pesos. The truth is every year thousands of Filipino women leave the PI seeking a better life by marrying someone from another country. A lot of the marriages are arraigned, or brokered by illegal matchmaking agencies. While mail order brides is illegal in the PI, it still goes on there, because in other countries it is legal. The reason the CFO asks all those questions, and wants all those other documents is because they are trying to find out if a third party introduced the Filipina to their husband, or future husband.

The arranged marriages is clearly a form of human trafficking. Lots of these women go to Korea and Japan, and some wind up being nothing but cooks, maids, babysitters, or even worse forced into the sex trade and prostitution. The CFO tries to find out if someone is coercing them to contract marriage with a foreigner, and if getting married is really what they want to do. A lot of women are 18 to 25 years old and they think they will be helping their family by marrying a foreigner. Even the women family in some cases is the very ones who is encouraging her to get married.

The CFO cannot look at someone and tell if they are a victim of human trafficking, so they try to find that out during the interview. If there are any red flags, the interview and the request for more documents can seem like a interrogation more than a interview. If the woman is 18-25 years old, there is a large age difference, or her husband or fiancee has divorced more than one time, and she can't answer simple questions about him can set off alarms.

Under Philippine law, Filipino women who are going overseas as fiancees and spouses of foreign nationals are required to attend the CFO's guidance and counseling program to help them make informed decisions regarding their marriage to foreign nationals and to prepare them for their adjustments in cross-cultural marriages. Attending the program is a per-requisite for the issuance of a passport.

I think the counseling program is about the only tool the Philippines has in identifying Filipino women who are mail-order brides, or women who are getting married for the wrong reasons. That why it is still necessary.

[Loolie 56]

My mother lost her Maiden name when she married my father so that is irrelavent.

They don't need to know me, not the purpose of the seminar. The U.S knows me like nobody's business, thats why we were approved for the visa!!!

I would have to disagree on the brainwashing, isn't it a fact that telling a fiancee going to another country, that she is at high risk of being in a bad situation not brainwashing? Did this(teacher as my fiancee called her) have facts and base her knowledge and teachings on FACTS?

I don't judge filipino's, I'm marrying a filipina who is a person and I judge her as a person. Just like I judge everyone, as a person. Are you prejudice? Are you really making this an American- Filipino debate? Shame on you!!!! My do the very many filipino's I am close to that have had the exact seminar as you have, say the complete opposite? Their the ones I formed my initial biased opinion about this bola bola seminar.

And my question to you - WHat is the reality that I'm whinning about? Please explain or are you "outta here"?

I for one don't like corrupt governments, and yes they are all corrupt, pushing me around and telling me what to do while taking my money. And especially when it is legally not a requirement to getting my loved ones with me.

Lastly, please explain why Philippines IS THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD that conducts this? ANd please don't tell me becuase they are concerned for their citizens or I'm going to lose my lunch!

One more note - I just asked my fiancee what she would do if I brainwashed her, turned her into a swinger, tied her up was an ####### and she said, "I don't know". I then asked her, " WHat did the CFO seminar tell you?" SHe said, " I don't know, they really didn't cover that". Such a wise investment!!!!!

Ive read people here complaining about cfo bcoz their fiancee/fiance didnt know the mothers maiden name... Why blame cfo? Why not blame each other for not sharing it with or without seminar? Some people complain about not able to attend the seminar bcoz the slot is full... Then why you didnt go early? Some people complain about cfo failing them bcoz they didnt have the documents they needed...they why did you forget about it or didnt do thorough research before attending the seminar? And if they "brainwash" people and your fiancee/fiance has this doubts and got scared about coming here and being with you... Why blame cfo? Why not ask him or her dont you really love and TRUST me enough?

And lastly why other people was able to pass cfo seminar without any problems and why other had problems? So tell me is it really the cfo's fault? Just like i said i didnt really need the seminar but if i have to "waste" my money and time to save fellow pinay/pinoy from being abuse or neglected or just from being plain stupid...why not. So im really outta here...and you are such a whinner with all the exclamation point. Hehehe you got your sticker get over it. Goodnyt

[TnJ 131]

The CFO is still very necessary, and for the most part does a good job. Some that do not understand the ugly truth about the Philippines think this process is just a way for the government to make a few more pesos. The truth is every year thousands of Filipino women leave the PI seeking a better life by marrying someone from another country. A lot of the marriages are arraigned, or brokered by illegal matchmaking agencies. While mail order brides is illegal in the PI, it still goes on there, because in other countries it is legal. The reason the CFO asks all those questions, and wants all those other documents is because they are trying to find out if a third party introduced the Filipina to their husband, or future husband.

The arranged marriages is clearly a form of human trafficking. Lots of these women go to Korea and Japan, and some wind up being nothing but cooks, maids, babysitters, or even worse forced into the sex trade and prostitution. The CFO tries to find out if someone is coercing them to contract marriage with a foreigner, and if getting married is really what they want to do. A lot of women are 18 to 25 years old and they think they will be helping their family by marrying a foreigner. Even the women family in some cases is the very ones who is encouraging her to get married.

The CFO cannot look at someone and tell if they are a victim of human trafficking, so they try to find that out during the interview. If there are any red flags, the interview and the request for more documents can seem like a interrogation more than a interview. If the woman is 18-25 years old, there is a large age difference, or her husband or fiancee has divorced more than one time, and she can't answer simple questions about him can set off alarms.

Under Philippine law, Filipino women who are going overseas as fiancees and spouses of foreign nationals are required to attend the CFO's guidance and counseling program to help them make informed decisions regarding their marriage to foreign nationals and to prepare them for their adjustments in cross-cultural marriages. Attending the program is a per-requisite for the issuance of a passport.

I think the counseling program is about the only tool the Philippines has in identifying Filipino women who are mail-order brides, or women who are getting married for the wrong reasons. That why it is still necessary.

This is the best apologetic I have seen so far. In theory, this is the relevance of why it is needed and looks good on paper. My problems are just a couple really. First, this one might seem minor, but is quite a nuisance for some. The vagueness of the CFO webpages and such do not necessarily prepare a person for the seminar. Things like "Other documents" do not clarify anything, and only make life harder when people are traveling to these seminars from places like Davao. Then, they are requested to go back and get more documents. Then, that wasn't good enough so they have to get even more documents. Why can't things like this be explained the first or second time around? It does not have anything to do with knowing someone's maiden name. For others here to reduce the greater problems into one menial example thinking it justifies the overall upset of attendees and brokenness of system is absurd. My second concern is that interviews that turn for the worst because the CFO officer is attempting to coerce the attendee into believing something that isn't true is indeed brainwashing. For example, I have read from others here that officers had made up lies specifically aimed at the foreigner just to break down the morale of the willing Filipino. This is corruption and brainwashing at its finest. Maybe, an abolishment of CFO is not the answer, but reform might be something to consider.

Edited August 10, 2012 by ToddnJessa