CFO Counseling Requirement has no legal basis

[rlogan 2,036]

For those who have already been through, or who are about to pay for the revolting CFO seminar, it appears to me that it has no legal basis, and was invented without authority by the Department of Foreign Affairs. You're still going to have to do it because there are armed guards with guns who have been told by their superiors to enforce this phony requirement, but I think we need to spread the word this is a Department that has imposed a tax and restriction upon travel without legal basis and should be abolished. I think it can, certainly much more easily than reversing an Act.

The requirement pretends to be an "implementing regulation" of the Philippines Passport Act of 1996, which can be read in full here:

Philippines Passport Act 1996

Look through that Act and observe there is not ONE WORD about requiring counseling for Philippinos marrying foreigners. The way law works in the Philippines, the legislature can pass an act, like the Passport Act, and direct the Department of Foreign Affairs to come up with "implementing regulations", in this case within 60 days of the Act. But the Department of Foreign Affairs cannot invent some new requirement beyond what the Act allowed. Otherwise any rogue department can simply make up whatever regulations it wants, regardless of what an Act says, and charge whatever fees they feel like charging - making themselves dictators, without any semblance of democracy.

That's what the DFA did here. Despite not one word in the Act requiring any kind of seminar/counseling for fiances or spouses of foreigners, the DFA just wrote it into their implementing regulations without authority. It is contained within D.O. 11-97, the implementing regulations, saying this:

In addition thereto, a Filipino who contracts marriage in the Philippines to a foreigner, shall be required to present a Certificate of Attendance in a Guidance and Counselling Seminar conducted by the CFO when applying for a passport for the first time.

The other important illegal aspect of this requirement is that it represents a tax on certain Philippino citizens without legislative authority: they not only force this "counseling" upon you, but you have to pay them for it. Yet, to date there has been no legislative authority for this tax. The CFO is just doing it because they are getting away with it. They have been pretending that the Philippines Passport Act gave them the power to restrict the rights of immigration for those who are marrying abroad, and impose a tax on them without basis in law.

In short, they invented a regulation to line their pockets with gold from foreign marriages.

I certainly invite someone with a good legal background to steer us to contrary information. I would happily stand corrected. But there is no question the Act they claim to be implementing says nothing about the little baby Filipino citizens being so stupid they need mommy government to counsel them on their marriage to a foreigner.

One very important advice: explaining this to the bureaucrat at the seminar violates the premises of Slavery. A slave never questions authority. A slave never shows he knows more than his master. A Slave cheerfully accepts all orders, thanking the Master for his infinite wisdom and kindness. This is the kind of information, if divulged, guarantees you flunk the seminar. The person in front of you is making their living from this illegal minor oppression. They take a five minute Jeepney trip to work from home. You traveled hundreds of miles by ship, have to stay in a hotel, and eat more expensive food, etc. - spend thousands of pesos in addition to days of your time just to put a few hundred pesos in their pockets. Like a 10:1 ratio of your actual expenses over the wages they extort from you. But that's part of the power trip for them - knowing how much they put you through before arriving at their feet, on your knees for their precious stamp.

I am not familiar enough with Filipino law to understand how regulations in violation of the laws they supposedly implement are reversed. It is obvious that immigrants would rather pay this extortion than mount a court challenge to it and spend a couple of years doing that instead of immigrating and marrying. A class action suit abolishing the regulation and getting our money back plus an apology - I'm down for that. But I would prefer we could send the people that wrote it to a re-education camp run by North Korea.

[X Factor 1,112]

In short, they invented a regulation to line their pockets with gold from foreign marriages.

Agreed but there is little we can do about it.

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

Good points, Rlogan. In addition, I noticed it said one must attend the seminar "when applying for a passport for the first time". But what if a person had already left the PI before, had a passport already, and then wanted to leave for the US and didn't attend the seminar?

[rlogan 2,036]

Agreed but there is little we can do about it.

Well sure, that's the right slave mentality.

The question is one of tactics and costs, not the ability of free people to effect change in government. So if you mean "it's not worth it, well that is simply a matter of individual values and opinions.

One of the first things is educating yourself in the law, which I have underataken here and is already more than most people are willing to do. The strategic concern is whether this is a thing that takes a court filing to undo or whether a congressional representative like my buddy Manny Pacquiao can simply vacate with a resolution. I don't know.

Dave - yea, the regulation says "first time". But ultimately you are in front of a guy with a gun and a badge at the airport, and who knows what he's been told by his superiors.

[abner137 48]

It would take longer to fight it than go to it......... or get around it like some suggest......I mean really...half a day and less than $15....whats the big deal after all these other hoops you jump through...

[rlogan 2,036]

It would take longer to fight it than go to it

I said that in the OP. So why are you pretending otherwise?

I mean really...half a day and less than $15....whats the big deal after all these other hoops you jump through...

It cost us a lot of extra travel, lodging and food expenses. I said that, which you also ignored, so that it would look unreasonable to do the trifling research I did to bring this to the attention of people affected by it.

What bureacracies like to do is first make their imposition minor, but then gradually make it more onerous. When they started limiting the number of people per day, that was such a classic sign of bureaucratic blackmail that it drew me to inspect the legal basis for the requirement. I've seen this exact ploy many times. The bureacracy gets the people to call for more funding by restricting the number of permits they issue.

[rlogan 2,036]

I think an online petition is an inexpensive way to protest this requirement.

I'm not going to respond anymore to people saying it can't be done or they're against others doing something about it. You're on the wrong team, trying to throw cold water and negativity upon something that might be within our power to change by merely signing our name to a petition. I am willing to look into how an online petition could be set up and think about the most efficient way to do it. I think I should poll people first though because my impression is the vast majority of people would rather not be forced to do this. A voluntary program - I have no problem with that. But for us it was a stupid waste of time and money. Maybe I am wrong about how other people feel.

Other productive ideas would be nice, or again if you think I am wrong about the law and can prove why - please do.

[actob99 156]

I think an online petition is an inexpensive way to protest this requirement.

I'm not going to respond anymore to people saying it can't be done or they're against others doing something about it. You're on the wrong team, trying to

throw cold water and negativity upon something that might be within our power to change by merely signing our name to a petition. I am willing to look into how an online

petition could be set up and think about the most efficient way to do it. I think I should poll people first though because my impression is the vast majority of people would rather not be forced to do this. A voluntary program - I have no problem with that. But for us it was a stupid waste of time and money. Maybe I am wrong about how other people feel.

Other productive ideas would be nice, or again if you think I am wrong about the law and can prove why - please do.

I support it, I just woke up and willl read everyhing you stated in the first post. I still think a couple could fly to Hong Kong first without the sticker and then to the states.

[reginakrys 33]

But still, we'd have to go attend the seminar anyway to get the CFO stickers.

[Darnell 8,478]

I would question the posit, that

A K-1 visa wannabe has contracted marriage in the Philippines.

Would be an exceptional wedge to use.

[Loolie 56]

I think limiting the number of people is a bs. But i dont think the seminar needs to be abolished bcoz not all people who marry foreign spouses are educated enough to know what their rights as an immigrant, where and how they can get help if something happen to them like they get abuse or neglected by thier spouses. Was the seminar helpful to me... Not really bcoz i know what to do if something happen to me but when i had my seminar some people didnt know what to do or where to go...it might be a waste of money and time for you but im sure it isnt for other people.

[actob99 156]

I think limiting the number of people is a bs. But i dont think the seminar needs to be abolished bcoz not all people who marry foreign spouses are educated enough to know what their rights as an immigrant, where and how they can get help if something happen to them like they get abuse or neglected by thier spouses. Was the seminar helpful to me... Not really bcoz i know what to do if something happen to me but when i had my seminar some people didnt know what to do or where to go...it might be a waste of money and time for you but im sure it isnt for other people.

Where are the good stories that the CFO tells, that are a majority of the cases? Where is the positive vibes in the CFO? There are none, its something they threw together to collect more cash from the people, the people that should be supported the most and given breaks, their own people! I would be on fire if I was the father of a filipina getting married abroad, and this group of uneducated people on the world, told my daughter she was going to a country that was full of SWINGERS and she will probably be asked to be involved in such an activity. True story as my fiancee witnessed it with the girl sitting right next to her.

One more thing, filipino's are very wise people with great family upbringings. Believe you-me, their families have discussed all the wrongdoing's in the world and what could possibly happen to them. And that's where it should happen, IN THE FAMILY.

[Loolie 56]

Where are the good stories that the CFO tells, that are a majority of the cases? Where is the positive vibes in the CFO? There are none, its something they threw together to collect more cash from the people, the people that should be supported the most and given breaks, their own people! I would be on fire if I was the father of a filipina getting married abroad, and this group of uneducated people on the world, told my daughter she was going to a country that was full of SWINGERS and she will probably be asked to be involved in such an activity. True story as my fiancee witnessed it with the girl sitting right next to her.

One more thing, filipino's are very wise people with great family upbringings. Believe you-me, their families have discussed all the wrongdoing's in the world and what could possibly happen to them. And that's where it should happen, IN THE FAMILY.

Part of the seminar is sharing some cases of filipina who was abused by thier foriegn spouses and if they told them about swingers so what? Whats the big deal out of it? Isnt it true that swingers exist? I honestly didnt know about swingers when i was in the philippines but when i got here i surely did know about it. If your not a swinger then let it go. The seminar is not for your own benefit really...its for the one who will go out of the country and live with a person with a different culture.

Believe me, my parents told me about all the wrongdoings in the world im sure every parents would do that but not all parents are educated enough to know where, how and what to do if something happen once their son or daughters are already out of the country. Im outta here.

[actob99 156]

Isnt it true that swingers exist?

They must exist if "the CFO has first hand knowledge and THE FACTS of them" and scares the #### out of a girl leaving for a country that is full of swingers!!!! The girl was all excited to go abroad and be with her new-future-husband until THE CFO, will all of their expertise and wisdom, put in her head that probably likely her fiance is a swinger too.

When we tell the story to all of the educated filipino friends we know here, they laugh and say shame on them too. They are the ones who warned us about the seminar as they have all had to attend the seminar's as well and have nothing good to say about it. This isn't based on only my opinion or me being a swinger so I'm over it, are you? It was a point. Why not warn the whole group about swinger's rather than pick one out in a group and individually ridicule the country she is going? You think that's professional? You support that?

I'm still here.

[adiiann 163]

I heard horrible stories about CFO, I had my lawyer ready way back in the Philippines if they will give me trouble with this three years ago. But, everything went fine, so I didn't do anything.

These are all scare tactics because of bureaucracy.