St. Paul Teacher Accused Of Discriminating Against Black Students

[SaharaSunset 165]

Have to agree with you somewhat. Slavery is dead on the shoulders of white folks. The fact a few waring tribes sold their fellow countrymen into slavery, really does not change things. Let me be clear I am talking about the slavery of the South in prior to the cival war, not the slavery that still exists today in some black majority countries.

P.S. Also for those that did not grow up in the South. Black people did not really gain freedoom in the South until around 1985 or so.

It wasn't a "few waning tribes"....the slave trade was an active thriving commodity in Africa and Asia for centuries before the Europeans got in on it. Granted, the slave trade in Africa did not have the same rules that Europeans applied (like never being able to gain freedom, children being "born" a slave etc.), so in we can credit the Europeans with making it more extreme, but not with creating it.

Take out the African involvement, and it absolutely changes things. Not considering the historical context of slavery and America, unfairly villifies and stereotypes early white Americans as some twisted, sick group who "invented" slavery. There is no question that slavery was horrible, wrong and should never have happened. But blaming "whites" isn't really fair. Had the supposed "waning tribes" of Africa not had a rich history of rounding up and kidnapping slaves to be traded, the system never would have worked...or would have existed as it had for many centuries. I do not know of a country in the history of the world that didn't have "second class" races. It harsh, but its reality. America was following in suit of a long and varied world history of division. Its not a something America invented. Its an unfortunate fact of life that in our modern world we'd like to overcome. But if you look around you for one second....the "plight of African Americans" pales to plight of discriminated peoples in so many countries...who are still living in like Black americans in the 50's and 60".

In all fairness, we cannot blame "white people"(whatever that means) 100% for this terrible system of slavery. Maybe we can blame the European desire for sugar....or greedy rich people. But if we are EVER going to progress as a country beyond racism, we have to stop "blaming" people....especially white people.

Edited August 9, 2012 by SaharaSunset

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If you are capable of seeing that many blacks do well and don't fit the pattern of many other black... and therefore you decline to speak of blacks as one large group why do you hold the multitude of whites who never owned slaves as guilty for slavery?

Q: Wicht countries throughout the world did not have slaves at this same time?

Slavery was the norm every where.

IN fact how many non-white countries abolished slavery before we did?

I don't hold all whites "guilty for slavery" I do hold the establishment of the time, which was predominantly if not exclusively white as responsible for slavery.

Let's not kid around here - the issue isn't about other countries, it's about the USA. It's about you owning up to the legacy of your country's past - it doesn't require you to take the blame for it or assume some sort of 'personal responsibility for it', only to acknowledge that it happened and to not denigrate that history because you have some axe to grind with racial minorities.

[Danno 1,228]

I don't hold all whites "guilty for slavery" I do hold the establishment of the time, which was predominantly if not exclusively white as responsible for slavery.

Let's not kid around here - the issue isn't about other countries, it's about the USA. It's about you owning up to the legacy of your country's past - it doesn't require you to take the blame for it or assume some sort of 'personal responsibility for it', only to acknowledge that it happened and to not denigrate that history because you have some axe to grind with racial minorities.

No one is ignorant of the practice of the times, I only add context.

To hear some folks talk you would think the whites where the primary partaker in human bondage... when in fact Whites around the world including this country were leaders in abolishing it.

If need be I will post the time line of abolition again.... the facts are clear.

Even of the millions of slaves which crossed the seas in the atlantic slave trade a relatively small amount came here, mexico itself imported about as many as we did.

There were many whites who were dead set against slavery, Quakers and so forth .... why blame all whites when most people never owned a slave?

Blacks owned slaves too, in fact the very first slave was owned by a Black.

Slavery was ubiquitous ... to single out whites as some exceptionally guilty party in that time serves what purpose?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No one is ignorant of the practice of the times, I only add context.

To hear some folks talk you would think the whites where the primary partaker in human bondage... when in fact Whites around the world including this country were leaders in abolishing it.

If need be I will post the time line of abolition again.... the facts are clear.

Even of the millions of slaves which crossed the seas in the atlantic slave trade a relatively small amount came here, mexico itself imported about as many as we did.

There were many whites who were dead set against slavery, Quakers and so forth .... why blame all whites when most people never owned a slave?

Blacks owned slaves too, in fact the very first slave was owned by a Black.

Slavery was ubiquitous ... to single out whites as some exceptionally guilty party in that time serves what purpose?

Once again: the white establishment is to blame for slavery in the USA, since they held the power and the money, and this has shaped the subsequent destiny of the nation.

Once again:

That doesn't detract from where the slaves were rounded up from or by who. Nor does it suggest that slavery is an adequate argument to explain away or excuse contemporary social problems. All it provides is a context and the idea that all Americans did not start equal and that this has some implications for the present day.

Slavery isn't the be-all and end-all on the debate about the disparities between race and class in the USA, but neither can it be dismissed out of hand.

[Danno 1,228]

Once again: the white establishment is to blame for slavery in the USA, since they held the power and the money, and this has shaped the subsequent destiny of the nation.

I take it you are blaming "Blacks" for the utter destruction that has taken place in Detroit (the most homogenous city in the country at 90%)

... a city which was once the Jewel of the country at one time. After decades of Blacks holding "Power and money" the city is a wasteland.

As Pittsburg lost the whole steel industry they made changes, attracted new business, it is now one of the top livable cities in the country.

By your logic we are to blame Blacks for what has happened to Detroit.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Danno

[Xanax 349]

This thread is still going?

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I take it you are blaming "Blacks" for the utter destruction that has taken place in Detroit (the most homogenous city in the country at 90%)

... a city which was once the Jewel of the country at one time. After decades of Blacks holding "Power and money" the city is a wasteland.

As Pittsburg lost the whole steel industry they made changes, attracted new business, it is now one of the top livable cities in the country.

By your logic we are to blame Blacks for what has happened to Detroit.

How about since we want to be a race blind society. "Bad people were responsible for slavery".

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I take it

you are blaming "Blacks" for the utter destruction that has taken place in Detroit (the most homogenous city in the country at 90%)

... a city which was once the Jewel of the country at one time. After decades of Blacks holding "Power and money" the city is a wasteland.

As Pittsburg lost the whole steel industry they made changes, attracted new business, it is now one of the top livable cities in the country.

By your logic we are to blame Blacks for what has happened to Detroit.

Do you honestly think it is that simple as blaming group x? I don't.

The issue is in recognising the link that your country's past has to the present, not trying to ignore it because you have an axe to grind.

You seem desperate to want to twist my words into something they aren't, but it doesn't alter the point.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It wasn't a "few waning tribes"....the slave trade was an active thriving commodity in Africa and Asia for centuries before the Europeans got in on it. Granted, the slave trade in Africa did not have the same rules that Europeans applied (like never being able to gain freedom, children being "born" a slave etc.), so in we can credit the Europeans with making it more extreme, but not with creating it.

Take out the African involvement, and it absolutely changes things. Not considering the historical context of slavery and America, unfairly villifies and stereotypes early white Americans as some twisted, sick group who "invented" slavery. There is no question that slavery was horrible, wrong and should never have happened. But blaming "whites" isn't really fair. Had the supposed "waning tribes" of Africa not had a rich history of rounding up and kidnapping slaves to be traded, the system never would have worked...or would have existed as it had for many centuries. I do not know of a country in the history of the world that didn't have "second class" races. It harsh, but its reality. America was following in suit of a long and varied world history of division. Its not a something America invented. Its an unfortunate fact of life that in our modern world we'd like to overcome. But if you look around you for one second....the "plight of African Americans" pales to plight of discriminated peoples in so many countries...who are still living in like Black americans in the 50's and 60".

In all fairness, we cannot blame "white people"(whatever that means) 100% for this terrible system of slavery. Maybe we can blame the European desire for sugar....or greedy rich people. But if we are EVER going to progress as a country beyond racism, we have to stop "blaming" people....especially white people.

Yep slavery predates the USA, I think that is a given.

The only point made is that the establishment in the early USA benefitted from slavery and that this has had an impact on the country's subsequent destiny. It doesn't mean white people can be blamed for poverty and deprivation inner cities or social problems in deprived areas.

Some people seem to want to deny the significance of their own history.

[justashooter 430]

as usual, a non-American drags the subject off topic with "white guilt".

history check on your white guilt, dude.

a chinese guy named chin had a tomb built several thousand years ago. he used 250,000 slaves to do it over a period of 30 years. those still alive when it was finished were buried alive with him, or slaughtered on the site. they were all different kinds of chinese people. then another group of chinese dudes used about 1.5 million chinese slaves over a period of several hundred years to build a big wall. people admire their product to this day, and nobody talks about the 2 million slaves that created it.

wanna talk about slavery? talk about obama's family, a bunch of arabs imported to africa by the brits a couple hundred years ago to run the local slave trade. they are still in business today.

wanna talk about africans enslaving whites? talk about the barbary pirates prior to madison. before he sent the marines "to the shores of tripoli" in 1810, 25% of the USA federal budget was ransom to barbary pirates for enslaved American merchant shipping crews.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

White guilt? Not at all. Just put your history in its proper context, don't deny it just because you have a bugbear with racial minorities.

[justashooter 430]

just because you have a bugbear with racial minorities.

nothing to do with skin color or language. more to do with cultural conceptions of super-ego and individual responsibility and integrity within the community.

you won't see me busting on anyone that effects super-ego in responsibility and integrity, and can be sure i will rail on those that don't.

there are fathers in this world, and there are children.

why is it that you deny your role? are you afraid of the responsibility?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Psychobabble rubbish topped off with an insult. Beautiful.

Using big words doesn't mean you have something worth saying, quite the opposite in fact.

[^_^ 5,021]

Psychobabble rubbish topped off with an insult. Beautiful.

Using big words doesn't mean you have something worth saying, quite the opposite in fact.

i think justashooter is a little gay for you. he wants to spank you and have you call him daddy.

[justashooter 430]

i think justashooter is a little gay for you. he wants to spank you and have you call him daddy.

he already did.