Denied

[msheesha 548]

Ok, I'll say it one more time. The person who interviewed (not my spouse) knew the State but he was unable to point it out on a MAP. Secondly, Morocco does not care about how many trips. There are people who had 3 or 4 trips and they are denied compared to people with 1 or 2 trips that's approved. Even lawyers are afraid of Morocco because the Consulate has high denial rates and it determinations are random with one exception. Classism is a factor. But when the interview occurs I'll definitely let everyone know the results. There is no reason for us to be denied. I am a US citizen, I have the income, I own my home, both our families have been involved in this process, we qualify based on the requirements to file, and we have plenty of evidence to show legitimacy. But in Morocco this does not matter. It's all about the mood of the interviewer. They are awarded for the number of denials not the number of approvals. That's Morocco, folks.

Re: classism playing a part - there have been many Moroccans approved who are dirt poor. I think class can be used as an excuse when in fact the poverty of one's situation motivates him/her to be with someone from another country that they would never prefer to be with if they were living comfortably in their own country, i.e. - someone much older AND in a different life phase than themselves, such as a 20something poor Moroccan man with a 50something year old American or European woman well past child bearing years and sometimes a grandmother. It may not be fraud per se, but it's a situation that he would never choose in Morocco if he had the comfort of financial sucess and more choices.

[GGG1975 9]

Denials are NOT based on the "mood" of he CO. That is completely false. Sometimes they get it wrong (either denying a legitimate couple or approving a scam), but mostly they get it right. They are very good at what they do and have seen it all before. The process is most certainly not capricious, though people who don't understand it might feel like it is.

It is very odd that a person who is planning to move somewhere cannot point to the place on the map. It's not a question of geography of the world, it is the place the person is planning to move to in the next month. The lack of curiosity about the new home says a lot. That was a wise decision to deny on that (and, your story changed, at first you said he couldn't name the state, now you say he couldn't point to it).

Have you read the fraud warning on the Consulate website? http://morocco.usembassy.gov/visas/immigrant-visas/fiance-visas.html

It is near the bottom of the page, "Internet Romance and Marriage Fraud."

I went back to read my entries and I did not change my story about the MAP situation. He was unable to "identify" the State or I said he was unable to "point" to the State on a MAP (Same thing). You seem more interested in catching me in a lie than providing me information on what I initially asked about. Are you a Consulate interviewer (LOL).

Tany1157 --- Thanks for your feedback and the info about how you handled the appeals process. And thanks to everyone that gave me info about the appeal process and encouragement. Peace and Love people/Peace and Love

Re: classism playing a part - there have been many Moroccans approved who are dirt poor. I think class can be used as an excuse when in fact the poverty of one's situation motivates him/her to be with someone from another country that they would never prefer to be with if they were living comfortably in their own country, i.e. - someone much older AND in a different life phase than themselves, such as a 20something poor Moroccan man with a 50something year old American or European woman well past child bearing years and sometimes a grandmother. It may not be fraud per se, but it's a situation that he would never choose in Morocco if he had the comfort of financial sucess and more choices.

Ok.

[GGG1975 9]

We also never used a lawyer, a lawyer can't do anything to change the CO's mind, IMO. They did not like my husband...even though the 3rd interview went well, they asked him a lot of questions, and told him to go straight to the doctor to get a drug test. Yes, they thought he was a user, and thank God, he never used drugs in his life, so was no worries there. But the doctor asked him why he looked so tired, and he was like "lady, I've been up since midnight, traveled 3 hours to have a THIRD interview with people who hate me" In the end, it worked out, but took us 3 years

LOL...Yes, it's such an exhausting process. I lost 25lbs while in Morocco for 7 weeks. Between eating 5 meals a day, my system kicking into overdrive, and walking around planning the wedding I was exhausted by the time we would get home. By the time I returned to the states all my clothes were falling off. Who knew I would fall in love and get in shape all in Morocco (LOL).

[sandinista! 1,816]

Denials are NOT based on the "mood" of he CO. That is completely false. Sometimes they get it wrong (either denying a legitimate couple or approving a scam), but mostly they get it right. They are very good at what they do and have seen it all before. The process is most certainly not capricious, though people who don't understand it might feel like it is.

It is very odd that a person who is planning to move somewhere cannot point to the place on the map. It's not a question of geography of the world, it is the place the person is planning to move to in the next month. The lack of curiosity about the new home says a lot. That was a wise decision to deny on that (and, your story changed, at first you said he couldn't name the state, now you say he couldn't point to it).

Have you read the fraud warning on the Consulate website? http://morocco.usembassy.gov/visas/immigrant-visas/fiance-visas.html

It is near the bottom of the page, "Internet Romance and Marriage Fraud."

that's true. my husband was totally into learning about the place that he was moving to. cause that's like, kind of a big deal. leaving your whole life in one country to move to another, i'd want to learn lots about it too. i remember him asking me "so, is this true what i read about there being lots of hippies in portland? what are they like anyways". lol.

[sandinista! 1,816]

i didn't realize this happened-so when people are given denial letters, specifics from the interview are listed as the reasons, like not being able to find the state on a map, etc? i always thought those letters were very, annoyingly, vague and nondescriptive.

[Crossed_fingers 128]

that's true. my husband was totally into learning about the place that he was moving to. cause that's like, kind of a big deal. leaving your whole life in one country to move to another, i'd want to learn lots about it too. i remember him asking me "so, is this true what i read about there being lots of hippies in portland? what are they like anyways". lol.

And did you answer, "Yes, there are lots of hippies in Portland"?

[morocco4ever 63]

I have never seen a denial where they have specified the reason. I guess it is possible, but unlikely. Ours merely said something along the lines of they believed that he was only married to immigrate.

What I see is that you are interested in the process and what to expect. As has been stated, each case is different, and it is extremely important that you take the time to review all of the questions and your husbands answers. Look at your entire case through the eyes of a CO. Remember, their job is not to prove your relationship is valid, but to prove that it isn't. Look at your relationship as if you are looking for fraud.

Why is this important? Because when your case gets back to the states they are going to go over the reasons for the denial. Keep in mind that they will see the actual reason for the denial that they never told you. When they send you the NOIR they are going to give you an opportunity to rebut. If your case is like ours they are going to give a bunch of random reasons, but not necessarily the real reason for the denial. You must be prepared to not only address what they are questioning, but any other red flags that you have that were not previously resolved. You HAVE to give them more evidence than was offered in the first interview.

If you are successful in proving to the USCIS that your relationship is real they will forward your file back to the NVC. They, in turn, will forward it to the consulate. Once the consulate happens they will call and schedule a second interview. Although this entire process is very slow, and could take a year or more, they are usually very quick in scheduling the interview once the consulate has the papers. They gave my husband a week.

The second interview could go many ways. In my husbands case all they wanted were updated forms, no further questions. But some interviews are going to be more questions to prove the validity of your relationship.

Just for the record, they never told us the actual reason for the denial, but by reviewing the questions with my husband it became obvious that by a miscommunication they believed that his sister paid me to marry him. Long story. This reason was not included with the NOIR, but I addressed it as well as all of the reasons they did state. When we got back the file after my husbands second interview their was a sticky note in the section the explained the miscommunication about his sister. It said "his sister". This just reinforced to us that this was the real reason, and once we addressed it there was nothing left to prove, which is why there were no more questions at the interview.

Best wishes to you. Keep strong. You are going to need it. But it's worth it!

[GGG1975 9]

I have never seen a denial where they have specified the reason. I guess it is possible, but unlikely. Ours merely said something along the lines of they believed that he was only married to immigrate.

What I see is that you are interested in the process and what to expect. As has been stated, each case is different, and it is extremely important that you take the time to review all of the questions and your husbands answers. Look at your entire case through the eyes of a CO. Remember, their job is not to prove your relationship is valid, but to prove that it isn't. Look at your relationship as if you are looking for fraud.

Why is this important? Because when your case gets back to the states they are going to go over the reasons for the denial. Keep in mind that they will see the actual reason for the denial that they never told you. When they send you the NOIR they are going to give you an opportunity to rebut. If your case is like ours they are going to give a bunch of random reasons, but not necessarily the real reason for the denial. You must be prepared to not only address what they are questioning, but any other red flags that you have that were not previously resolved. You HAVE to give them more evidence than was offered in the first interview.

If you are successful in proving to the USCIS that your relationship is real they will forward your file back to the NVC. They, in turn, will forward it to the consulate. Once the consulate happens they will call and schedule a second interview. Although this entire process is very slow, and could take a year or more, they are usually very quick in scheduling the interview once the consulate has the papers. They gave my husband a week.

The second interview could go many ways. In my husbands case all they wanted were updated forms, no further questions. But some interviews are going to be more questions to prove the validity of your relationship.

Just for the record, they never told us the actual reason for the denial, but by reviewing the questions with my husband it became obvious that by a miscommunication they believed that his sister paid me to marry him. Long story. This reason was not included with the NOIR, but I addressed it as well as all of the reasons they did state. When we got back the file after my husbands second interview their was a sticky note in the section the explained the miscommunication about his sister. It said "his sister". This just reinforced to us that this was the real reason, and once we addressed it there was nothing left to prove, which is why there were no more questions at the interview.

Best wishes to you. Keep strong. You are going to need it. But it's worth it!

Thank you so much for the information and insight. I will definitely keep it in mind. I can only hope that we can make it through the first time around. Miracles happen everyday .

[Peace.... 281]

msheesha and mithra are VERY well aware of this consulate....Mithra may not have went through Morocco, but has been on MENA for years, I would listen to them also. Multiple trips are good, but it is when they happened. Were there multiple trips BEFORE engagement or marriage?? Foreverwaiting had 4 trips I think before they even got engaged and got through a very tough interview, I think because they took their time BEFORE doing anything. We got engaged on the first trip, so that right there just made them think he was using me, and made our entire case an uphill battle, even if we did talk every single day just about, and visiting every year for a few weeks.

Tany

LOL you remembered that wow., sometimes I have to go back and reread my trips as its been a while back.

Just to say a few things to GGG1975...........

As someone who knows the interview process very well coming out of Morocco, visits are by far so important in this process. It's very rare to hear of a spouse/fiance being interviewed in the USA via telephone, but I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to tell our story and be the one on the hot seat. I was ask to tell about our relationship from the day we met online, to all my visits, his family history, etc. This interview took about 30 minutes.

We had every red flag but if not for my visits and taking our relationship so slow, I am sure we would have been denied. Seriously, I think at the time, we were the only couple interviewing in Morocco with more red flags imaginable and still to this day possibly the worse case of red flags.

I would also like to say as I have said to others here from personal experience, the interview itself is passable, but the past history of what the CO finds out about the Immigrant is another story itself. I know for a FACT, that the immigrants past online activity can be accessed, deleted accouts too. I am talking years back. If you need for me elaborate more, I can give details for sure. So though, you may not know everything about your significant other, I can tell you the Consulate does before they even set eyes on him. When you say, some are denied when they walk up to the window, well for good reason then, and this just justifies what I just said (they already know his story).

I hope everything works out for the both of you.....

Edited August 7, 2012 by foreverwaiting

[sandinista! 1,816]

And did you answer, "Yes, there are lots of hippies in Portland"?

oh yes! he had been reading about saturday market, lol!

[tany1157 161]

Tany

LOL you remembered that wow., sometimes I have to go back and reread my trips as its been a while back.

t

Just to say a few things to GGG1975...........

As someone who knows the interview process very well coming out of Morocco, visits are by far so important in this process. It's very rare to hear of a spouse/fiance being interviewed in the USA via telephone, but I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to tell our story and be the one on the hot seat. I was ask to tell about our relationship from the day we met online, to all my visits, his family history, etc. This interview took about 30 minutes.

We had every red flag but if not for my visits and taking our relationship so slow, I am sure we would have been denied. Seriously, I think at the time, we were the only couple interviewing in Morocco with more red flags imaginable and still to this day possibly the worse case of red flags.

I would also like to say as I have said to others here from personal experience, the interview itself is passable, but the past history of what the CO finds out about the Immigrant is another story itself. I know for a FACT, that the immigrants past online activity can be accessed, deleted accouts too. I am talking years back. If you need for me elaborate more, I can give details for sure. So though, you may not know everything about your significant other, I can tell you the Consulate does before they even set eyes on him. When you say, some are denied when they walk up to the window, well for good reason then, and this just justifies what I just said (they already know his story).

I hope everything works out for the both of you.....

Don't give me that much credit lady, I knew you had a few trips before your engagement, but had to sneak a peak to get the correct number of times. Lol

Edited August 8, 2012 by tany1157

[karlo 1]

It depends on what the reason is for the denial. Typically it is about not supplying enough proof of a bona fide relationship and/or the beneficiary not having a good interview.

Your course of action will be dictated by the specifics of each case.

I would appreciate it if you elaborate more on your last sentence, " Your course ....of each case", thanks.

[karlo 1]

The first time we did the k1 and we were denied . so I went to Morocco and got married and reply for the cr/1 .Which in my case was a mistake cuz almost a month before our interview for the cr1 case uscis sent all my papers back to Casa for a new interview . SO I look at is like I wasted all that xtra money to refile and what ever else need to be done . I was so surprised when casa called my house. I told the guy yea I want to go thur with it but when I told he we were already married we had to wait for a new date for the interview .

Patty

[/quote

What did you do so that they called you guys for another interview for k1? Thanks.

Edited August 8, 2012 by karlo

[SarAyouBliss 38]

Hi, I've seen your post in the past and you often give sound advice. I hope your process is going smoothly. Unfortunately in Morocco, most of the time they don't even interview the person. They'll have them sit down and hand them the 221g and say goodbye. As mentioned earlier, they have a high visa denial rate and it mainly runs across class lines.

One lady was denied because her husband couldn't identify the State in which she lived in the US. They actually put that on the denial letter. He could only State she lived in America. So sometimes they are simply looking for a reason to deny you. We have definitely supplied enough evidence. I have a lawyer now who put our packet together and made sure we had all the necessary documentation. However, I don't think he'll be a good choice for the appeal because he's not very supportive or positive about our chances. I want someone to at least believe we have a chance. Because no one can sit down with a person for 10 minutes and determine fraud it's not logical. It's a 50 to 50 shot like gambling. And many people have been approved based on having the money and end up beating their wife or leaving their wife after getting to America (I'm talking about cases from Morocco).

You're absolutely right, the petitions related to a petitioner who has abundant financial support are approved most of the time regardless the bona fide evidences or applicant doing well or bad at the interview.

I've got a 221(g) 3 days ago at my interview here in Casablanca, i'm through CR-1 (there was no K-1 from the beginning as we married in Casablanca intending to permanently live but things didn't work out). anyway, here's a link from VJ explaining what actions to take regarding the 221(g): http://www.visajourney.com/wiki/index.php/Returning_Petitions_to_USCIS_via_221g

Good luck

[SarAyouBliss 38]

I'm trying to find people who were denied the first time through the US Consulate in Morocco and what did you do after being denied or receiving a 221g and your file was sent back to USCIS? Did you hire a attorney? Where there more fees and if so how much? I want to be proactive and no what to expect, if this occurs to us. If you were denied and was dealing with any North African consulate, I'm actually interested in your story.

Thank you,

GGG1975

You're absolutely right, the petitions related to a petitioner who has abundant financial support are approved most of the time regardless the bona fide evidences or applicant doing well or bad at the interview.

I've got a 221(g) 3 days ago at my interview here in Casablanca, i'm through CR-1 (there was no K-1 from the beginning as we married in Casablanca intending to permanently live but things didn't work out). anyway, here's a link from VJ explaining what actions to take regarding the 221(g): http://www.visajourney.com/wiki/index.php/Returning_Petitions_to_USCIS_via_221g

Good luck