Subic Naval and Clark AFB deployment?

[rlogan 2,036]

There have been stories in various press reports about US naval forces swinging from 50-50 Atlantic/Pacific deployment to 60-40 deployment in the Pacific, and the hype is specifically about Chinese "aggression" in the Spratleys. This has been ongoing for decades but the US is making a lot of noise about it now for a reason to re-deploy military forces to the Asian theater.

I would like to know if anyone has information beyond what I have gathered from various reports because the US is not saying anything about Clark or Subic specifically despite some reports claiming "massive" re-opening of bases. Clark was of course our key forward air base for the Vietnam War, while Subic was the naval base. These were mostly turned back to the Philippines in 1990. Private developers have transformed them into other purposes although we maintain some property holding. Navy ships and US warplanes have continued to land at them. Massive scaling back, not complete abandonment.

The only thing of substance from either government that has been publicly announced is the Philippines "inviting" the US to use the bases again, and other statements about how it would have to be approved in conformity with the Constitution. There is a mutual defense treaty already in place, so that seems to be a given because of the way the US is framing all this as Chinese aggression in the Spratleys. This dispute is a very old one and there are six countries involved with Vietnam being by FAR the largest claimant on Islands in the Spratleys.

The reason for asking is that obviously if they re-deployed a complete forward air/naval base then this is going to be a place to look for economic opportunities in relatively safe areas of the Philippines. We have a place on Mindanao already but the war with the MILF makes it a little unsafe. Blowing up of our bridges and stores, hand grenades thrown into crowds, americans assassinated outright. Kind of puts a damper on the enthusiasm for retirement there.

So is anybody actually seeing deployments moving or construction going or any real signs of something significant happening, or is this hot air directed at China or what?

[Thomas&Cleofe 358]

There have been stories in various press reports about US naval forces swinging from 50-50 Atlantic/Pacific deployment to 60-40 deployment in the Pacific, and the hype is specifically about Chinese "aggression" in the Spratleys. This has been ongoing for decades but the US is making a lot of noise about it now for a reason to re-deploy military forces to the Asian theater.

I would like to know if anyone has information beyond what I have gathered from various reports because the US is not saying anything about Clark or Subic specifically despite some reports claiming "massive" re-opening of bases. Clark was of course our key forward air base for the Vietnam War, while Subic was the naval base. These were mostly turned back to the Philippines in 1990. Private developers have transformed them into other purposes although we maintain some property holding. Navy ships and US warplanes have continued to land at them. Massive scaling back, not complete abandonment.

The only thing of substance from either government that has been publicly announced is the Philippines "inviting" the US to use the bases again, and other statements about how it would have to be approved in conformity with the Constitution. There is a mutual defense treaty already in place, so that seems to be a given because of the way the US is framing all this as Chinese aggression in the Spratleys. This dispute is a very old one and there are six countries involved with Vietnam being by FAR the largest claimant on Islands in the Spratleys.

The reason for asking is that obviously if they re-deployed a complete forward air/naval base then this is going to be a place to look for economic opportunities in relatively safe areas of the Philippines. We have a place on Mindanao already but the war with the MILF makes it a little unsafe. Blowing up of our bridges and stores, hand grenades thrown into crowds, americans assassinated outright. Kind of puts a damper on the enthusiasm for retirement there.

So is anybody actually seeing deployments moving or construction going or any real signs of something significant happening, or is this hot air directed at China or what?

Noynoy already stated publicly that he has no intention of opening Subic as a USA Naval Base......

[actob99 156]

The States have been giving quite a bit of money to the government in the last year.

Clark is currently expanding and more is on the way. Looks likr Fed-ex has had enough of china and has solid plans of coming to Clark.

There has always been military running missions under the radar. Trips going out of Cebu to Mindanao to fight the rebels and muslim's is an on-going thing.

[rlogan 2,036]

Noynoy already stated publicly that he has no intention of opening Subic as a USA Naval Base......

Didn't know that, can you please link to a citation? Thanks!

Here is the Congressional Research Service Report that came out in April:

CRS report

We've sent numerous delegations, like two senators in May having hush-hush meetings with Subic economic interests. Not viewed kindly here:

US Go AWAY!

Then there was the meeting last month between Aquino and Dempsey, our military joint chiefs of staff commander. The US attack submarine USS North Carolina surfaced at Subic Bay last month, so something seems to be happening.

I don't disagree with what you said above. It's just that I have already obtained information from various military sites that larger surface ships have already landed in Subic too, there are these exercises going on, and we have effectively established a permanent presence on Mindanao through the VFA too. I disagree with them doing it, but the effect is to have permanently stationed troops while saying there are no "bases".

Various pots of "maintenance" mnoney and whatnot have also been used to beef up the Naval capacity for receiving US class ships on Mindanao too. That's why I am asking if other people know more because on the one hand they're saying nothing is happening, and yet things are happening.

Edited August 3, 2012 by rlogan

[rlogan 2,036]

The States have been giving quite a bit of money to the government in the last year.

Clark is currently expanding and more is on the way. Looks likr Fed-ex has had enough of china and has solid plans of coming to Clark.

There has always been military running missions under the radar. Trips going out of Cebu to Mindanao to fight the rebels and muslim's is an on-going thing.

Thanks for the tip. I'll chase that. My wife wants to do some kind of food business. I'm more construction oriented but will sell hot dogs if it makes money.

[Thomas&Cleofe 358]

Didn't know that, can you please link to a citation? Thanks!

Here is the Congressional Research Service Report that came out in April:

CRS report

We've sent numerous delegations, like two senators in May having hush-hush meetings with Subic economic interests. Not viewed kindly here:

US Go AWAY!

Then there was the meeting last month between Aquino and Dempsey, our military joint chiefs of staff commander. The US attack submarine USS North Carolina surfaced at Subic Bay last month, so something seems to be happening.

I don't disagree with what you said above. It's just that I have already obtained information from various military sites that larger surface ships have already landed in Subic too, there are these exercises going on, and we have effectively established a permanent presence on Mindanao through the VFA too. I disagree with them doing it, but the effect is to have permanently stationed troops while saying there are no "bases".

Various pots of "maintenance" mnoney and whatnot have also been used to beef up the Naval capacity for receiving US class ships on Mindanao too. That's why I am asking if other people know more because on the one hand they're saying nothing is happening, and yet things are happening.

I am sure Aquino stated that because he knows the filipino people do not want the base re-opened. But what goes on secretly or not so secretly could be a different matter. I know the reason why Subic was closed in the first place and it would probably not be good to discuss that here. I was stationed at Subic for 6 months before being deployed to the Persion Gulf to shoot some missles at Hussein.

[Thomas&Cleofe 358]

Thanks for the tip. I'll chase that. My wife wants to do some kind of food business. I'm more construction oriented but will sell hot dogs if it makes money.

My wife and I also plan on being business oriented in Pinas....Agriculture and maybe livestock.

[actob99 156]

Not saying I know Subic in the past or am I comparing, but Subic has been moving closer to how it use to be. New local government has helped an increase of bar owners moving out of AC for Subic..

[actob99 156]

Thanks for the tip. I'll chase that. My wife wants to do some kind of food business. I'm more construction oriented but will sell hot dogs if it makes money.

Whatever it takes, I would buy a good hotdog from you. My buddy has a huge top of the line snow cone machine he would probably get rid of for cheap. He had grand plans, turns out we just used it to make vodka & jagger cones..

[rlogan 2,036]

Not saying I know Subic in the past or am I comparing, but Subic has been moving closer to how it use to be. New local government has helped an increase of bar owners moving out of AC for Subic..

Well, I don't care one way or the other on bargirls, except as it pertains to hotdog sales. I don't know the areas so well as to ascertain what kinds of things are good to introduce if general business picks up. But we are open minded. More concerned with what will work instead of trying to force something.

Looks like Philippines will buy up more frigate class ships to apply in the Scarborough Shoal dispute. But Palawan might be the place instead of Subic. I don't know the ports there that well in terms of war vessel capacity but I did see the best ( ) the Philippines Navy has while I was there. China has monster ships by comparison and there were over 100 Chinese ships involved in that dispute if I remember correctly.

[riuthamus 7]

I was just in Subic, and I am a military member, and I can tell you there was no shortage of women willing to sell themselves. No matter what happens this will occur. Specially when you get people who have a higher income and they go to lower income regions. You know they were charging 200 peso for a 40 second cab ride? I can pay 200 - 400 to go from Pasig to Quezon City!!

The point is, most of this thread would result in pure speculation. US Military members cannot accurately answer these questions as it is against OPSEC. ( operational security ) and most grunts wouldn't have the answers the OP is looking for anyway. *shrugs*

[rlogan 2,036]

I am sure Aquino stated that because he knows the filipino people do not want the base re-opened. But what goes on secretly or not so secretly could be a different matter.

Yes of course to Aquino, which is why I would like to see exactly what political weasel words he used. And yes, it is kind of what goes on "secretly" except it is an open secret because all these meetings are going on between senators, Obama, Aquino, Joint Chiefs, Subic economic interests, etc.

I know the reason why Subic was closed in the first place and it would probably not be good to discuss that here. I was stationed at Subic for 6 months before being deployed to the Persion Gulf to shoot some missles at Hussein.

Well sure it is appropriate. I couldn't care less what the reasons are. I just want to understand them so we can make sound business decisions. If you mean the bars and bargirls, well - that is the universal law of all militaries, all countries on earth. There will be 2.7 whorehouses per regiment. Nothing can stop that. But the failure to renew the leases in 1990-1991 had a lot more than just red light districts to it. A lot of Philippine nationalist sentiment, which is why Aquino has to walk a tightrope on this.

The main thing we are interested in is this Congressional Report saying higher levels of both troop rotations and rotation of our naval ships in such a way as to establish what amounts to a base without calling it one. That is a LOT of hot dogs.

Edited August 3, 2012 by rlogan

[rlogan 2,036]

I was just in Subic, and I am a military member, and I can tell you there was no shortage of women willing to sell themselves. No matter what happens this will occur. Specially when you get people who have a higher income and they go to lower income regions. You know they were charging 200 peso for a 40 second cab ride? I can pay 200 - 400 to go from Pasig to Quezon City!!

Well duh. If you had a port of call with no red light district, THAT would be news.

The point is, most of this thread would result in pure speculation. US Military members cannot accurately answer these questions as it is against OPSEC. ( operational security ) and most grunts wouldn't have the answers the OP is looking for anyway. *shrugs*

Well I do appreciate chiming in. Information is being presented to Subic economic and local government interests - that fact has been published. I know how these work, they pull information off what are called "command cards" at some bases/posts that have basic economic information like number of troops, the capital and operating budgets, and etc. to give local business and government interests planning time to adapt, and who the contracting supply officers are etc. The local Rotary will have speakers, the road/water/sewer bureacracies will have memos about what upgrades need to take place, etc. We aren't from this area so I am hoping anyone with these or other kinds of connections would have some insights.

There are military chat sites that are pretty open about the whole re-alignment to the Pacific. Singapore is part of it too, but I am only interested in Philippines. If anyone has deployed out of Palawan I would like to know about that for sure.

[actob99 156]

From my experiences here and of my friends, this country is just plain tough to make a good buck.. Yes there is money to make and enough to get by on a simple life, but hard if you're looking for a loftier lifestyle. My personal opinion is I would want to have my hotdog stand right nrxt to the bars, thats where the money is always. I'm just not eager to fight all the hands that would be wanting to take a piece of my pie..

As far as discussion about the area in this thread, I lead a life with no blinders on. Can't hide the fact that its a part of the culture as well.

[rlogan 2,036]

From my experiences here and of my friends, this country is just plain tough to make a good buck.. Yes there is money to make and enough to get by on a simple life, but hard if you're looking for a loftier lifestyle.

I live in a log cabin in the woods and cut 12 cords of wood a year to heat a wood stove. So you know, I'm not exactly Gentlemen's Quarterly material. I have a small retirement and I work too, and can do consulting for my usual fee over the internet. But my little lady would like to run some kind of food operation, and I also do construction contracting and have already built a house in the Philippines & run a crew there. So I've proved I can handle construction already there. I don't care if the people have sex in the buildings I put up. In fact, that mignt make me put a little extra TLC into it.

My personal opinion is I would want to have my hotdog stand right nrxt to the bars, thats where the money is always. I'm just not eager to fight all the hands that would be wanting to take a piece of my pie..

As far as discussion about the area in this thread, I lead a life with no blinders on. Can't hide the fact that its a part of the culture as well.

Well, we don't care so much what potential clients are doing besides eating. A mixed asian type menu she can do really well, along with every major american kind of food. Baking and confectionary stuff too.