Obtain proof of Spouse's status

[BethandBilly 86]

Why don't you just get the DNA test done, are you afraid you may not be the Daddy, is there something in the past that may be worries you with regards paternity?

I've heard this US stats: 15% of children during marriage are NOT Legal Father's bio children (fact, remaining unknown to him). This number seems reasonable: theoretically, only bio mother is obvious. Whose sperm got to her ovary first is uncertain, and only she (hopefully always sober) knows for sure who she might have had a brief encounter with.

My first contact with Immigration Lawyer will likely be in about a week, following ACS conference referral. I'll be sure to post Lawyer's opinions. Until then, you're my legal experts - and I sincerely appreciate all, especially the links (to statutes and USCIS memos)

[Boiler 45,486]

Why don't you just get the DNA test done, are you afraid you may not be the Daddy, is there something in the past that may be worries you with regards paternity?

It does sound like there is a question here. Something to discuss with the Lawyer. Not sure why there is a delay in doing this.

[SingleDad2usc 71]

I think it's an off-topic. With no challenges to date and in the future, and with 2 orders I already have from 2005 - Final Order of Custody and Order to issue me Birth Certificates as the Father of both children - I see no added value from arduous Paternity procedures; does anyone?

[rouguewave 7]

I think it's an off-topic. With no challenges to date and in the future, and with 2 orders I already have from 2005 - Final Order of Custody and Order to issue me Birth Certificates as the Father of both children - I see no added value from arduous Paternity procedures; does anyone?

Fascinated lurker here. I, for one, appreciate the on-going entertainment and stimulated examination of issues you're providing here, SD.

Absolutely not off-topic, IMHO. Spot on to your desired outcome, unless you know (or have a clue as to) the intermediate results.

"Arduous Paternity procedure"? You swabbed, children swabbed, sent to DNA lab, results come back, open envelope, BINGO! Daddy! From that moment on, you're fighting the battle from your desired position: rightfull caretaker, biological originator, of 2 USC children. Now THATs added value!

Downside risk? For all your controlling, blustering, knowledgable navigation of the various processes, procedures, and requirements of the Agencies that you deal with, I suspect that any determination of the USCIS as to YOUR disposition would trump what any NY (city, county, or state) Agency might decide.

In other words, you have a vested interest in not knowing the outcome, if the outcome might not be in your best interest. It could mean that you get an invitation to leave and have NO chance to hang onto what have clearly been your focal point in the life you've created here.

[Boiler 45,486]

I know not a lot about DNA testing, it has come up on other threads in conjunction with proving family relationships.

It certainly seems no big deal, nothing compared to the other issues at hand.

[belinda63 3,038]

Not a big deal, unless he is proven to not be the father. Then it becomes a question of a non-relative having custody of two USCs being a strong enough tie to grant VAWA or prevent deportation. BTW I did read a case, here, about an illegal alien who was placed in deportation and the child was adopted by a US couple.

I think, without really knowing the history of the court cases, when you awarded custody you were also given permission to obtain copies of the birth certificates as a guardian will require those at periodic times throughout the lives of the wards. Unless there has been an order of paternity or unless the mother will sign the forms, I don't think you can have your name added to the birth certificate.

Edited August 9, 2012 by belinda63

[SingleDad2usc 71]

I'm growing to appreciate VJ even more! Very thoughtful of you.

Now:

1. I always thought there is more involved: court, timeframes?

2. Please explain advantage of confirmed Paternity over confirmed Father by Court order 2005, in my VAWA case.

3. Please explain how negative finding on of the children (the one I can't be 99% sure about) would result in "invitation" you elude to (go ahead even for negative finding on BOTH children)

Fascinated lurker here. I, for one, appreciate the on-going entertainment and stimulated examination of issues you're providing here, SD.

Absolutely not off-topic, IMHO. Spot on to your desired outcome, unless you know (or have a clue as to) the intermediate results.

"Arduous Paternity procedure"? You swabbed, children swabbed, sent to DNA lab, results come back, open envelope, BINGO! Daddy! From that moment on, you're fighting the battle from your desired position: rightfull caretaker, biological originator, of 2 USC children. Now THATs added value!

Downside risk? For all your controlling, blustering, knowledgable navigation of the various processes, procedures, and requirements of the Agencies that you deal with, I suspect that any determination of the USCIS as to YOUR disposition would trump what any NY (city, county, or state) Agency might decide.

In other words, you have a vested interest in not knowing the outcome, if the outcome might not be in your best interest. It could mean that you get an invitation to leave and have NO chance to hang onto what have clearly been your focal point in the life you've created here.

[Ihavequestions 419]

I'm growing to appreciate VJ even more! Very thoughtful of you.

Now:

1. I always thought there is more involved: court, timeframes?

2. Please explain advantage of confirmed Paternity over confirmed Father by Court order 2005, in my VAWA case.

3. Please explain how negative finding on of the children (the one I can't be 99% sure about) would result in "invitation" you elude to (go ahead even for negative finding on BOTH children)

Look at it this way.

Your plan:

Submit

- Her A number, which was initially associated with an asylum application stating she was unmarried.

- A photocopy of a marriage certificate 1.) in a language other than English, 2.) issued by a country which, as you say, is known for fraudulant ... stuff, and 3.) the original is torn to bits.

- Two birth certificates which omit your name as father.

- Reems of paper, court documents, etc., including documents from a child abuse/neglect case which has been ongoing for years, that state you have custody of the children and are able to obtain copies of their birth certificates.

The Alternative:

In your meeting next week, the one where you will ask these child services workers to give you a referral to a law firm that would likely discuss your case anyway but that's beside the point, ask them to suggest DNA tests are in order. Why? Because a conclusive DNA test is going to be solid evidence and provides the biological link that appears to be missing in Your Plan and would, without question, usurp any states "rule of thumb" that assume paternity because of the marriage that she's already lied to the government about - on a critical document no less.

You have to admit you have many obstacles to overcome with this VAWA application. Why not eliminate what you can?

Edited August 9, 2012 by Ihavequestions

[SingleDad2usc 71]

Very interesting thought process! But:

1. "non-relative having custody"? a Legal Father non-relative? Did you mean non-blood; sorry, I'm not sure WHAT you meant

2. "unless mother will sign the forms"? Two Judges over three years of hearings have heard/non-heard enough from the mother to be issueing Final Orders "on mother's default". By now, they have seven more years of no challengers (including mother). "don't think you can have your name added to the birth certificate" Why?

Maybe I'm missing something about Judges function, reputation, decision, precedents? Seems that readers are unsure about what (I think) differentiates Judges from us, mortals. My thinking is: Judges strive to order within the Law, plus they gladly exersize their power to make final rulings, which can only be overturned by higher Judges. I ask again and again (and still readers don't seem convinced!): how can awarding my name to the blank line of B.C.'s be anywhere nearly as important/hard to the same Court than a decision to award me babies in the flesh, unconditionally, years ago - and not a sign of a challenge/regret come forward?

Not a big deal, unless he is proven to not be the father. Then it becomes a question of a non-relative having custody of two USCs being a strong enough tie to grant VAWA or prevent deportation. BTW I did read a case, here, about an illegal alien who was placed in deportation and the child was adopted by a US couple.

I think, without really knowing the history of the court cases, when you awarded custody you were also given permission to obtain copies of the birth certificates as a guardian will require those at periodic times throughout the lives of the wards. Unless there has been an order of paternity or unless the mother will sign the forms, I don't think you can have your name added to the birth certificate.

[SingleDad2usc 71]

you almost have me convinced. I don't want to wait another 5 weeks for Vitals' correction processing. Are you suggesting submitting VAWA with blank B.C.'s plus DNA certificates?

Look at it this way.

Your plan:

Submit

- Her A number, which was initially associated with an asylum application stating she was unmarried.

- A photocopy of a marriage certificate 1.) in a language other than English, 2.) issued by a country which, as you say, is known for fraudulant ... stuff, and 3.) the original is torn to bits.

- Two birth certificates which omit your name as father.

- Reems of paper, court documents, etc., including documents from a child abuse/neglect case which has been ongoing for years, that state you have custody of the children and are able to obtain copies of their birth certificates.

The Alternative:

In your meeting next week, the one where you will ask these child services workers to give you a referral to a law firm that would likely discuss your case anyway but that's beside the point, ask them to suggest DNA tests are in order. Why? Because a conclusive DNA test is going to be solid evidence and provides the biological link that appears to be missing in Your Plan and would, without question, usurp any states "rule of thumb" that assume paternity because of the marriage that she's already lied to the government about - on a critical document no less.

You have to admit you have many obstacles to overcome with this VAWA application. Why not eliminate what you can?

[Ihavequestions 419]

you almost have me convinced. I don't want to wait another 5 weeks for Vitals' correction processing. Are you suggesting submitting VAWA with blank B.C.'s plus DNA certificates?

I'm saying it would give you proof positive of the biological link to your children.

The assumption of paternity because of marriage is something that individual states do. That's not a federal law, meaning it's not a requirement of all 50 states. That is common knowledge and surely Immigration officials know it, too. The birth certificates don't support your paternity claim, just as the judge's order that you be given care/custody and access to copies of the birth certificates don't support paternity.

And, if you think about it from the not-emotionally-attached, outside point of view, DNA tests are credible evidence and there's no unringing the bell; nobody can take it away from you. Also, you could use the DNA test results along with that free filing option in family court to get an order to have your name put on the birth certificates. That would be far easier than trying to get a judge to go back and revisit the wording of something he did years ago.

[Ihavequestions 419]

One other thing.

If YOU have the DNA testing done, the results belong to you. Nobody can see the results without you showing them. Those records are private.

However, if the government orders DNA testing, the government gets the results in a sealed envelope. That's a never-ending theme on television court shows for a reason - because that's the way it's done.

Just sayin'.

[Karee 4,190]

I'm saying it would give you proof positive of the biological link to your children.

The assumption of paternity because of marriage is something that individual states do. That's not a federal law, meaning it's not a requirement of all 50 states. That is common knowledge and surely Immigration officials know it, too. The birth certificates don't support your paternity claim, just as the judge's order that you be given care/custody and access to copies of the birth certificates don't support paternity.

And, if you think about it from the not-emotionally-attached, outside point of view, DNA tests are credible evidence and there's no unringing the bell; nobody can take it away from you. Also, you could use the DNA test results along with that free filing option in family court to get an order to have your name put on the birth certificates. That would be far easier than trying to get a judge to go back and revisit the wording of something he did years ago.

Probably the best post of this 5 page thread. Even though you have custody and a judge says they are yours, what if some guy she shcaked up with comes out of the woodowrk years later and says those kids are his?

[BethandBilly 86]

Sir, you seem to know how to play the system well and it appears you may have had many years in which to hone your skill, now I am not saying this is wrong if it has been in pursuit of what is best for the children and if that is the case then your efforts have not been wasted. However you have been given many years in which to obtain DNA results pertaining to the said children, yet you have not done so and now it appears you are not 100% sure of the children being yours.

Surely if you wish to file VAWA you would be best filing the petition with all the necessary facts, as the saying going goes "forewarned is forearmed".

I do not envy the position you and the children are in.

Edited August 9, 2012 by BethandBilly

[belinda63 3,038]

Yep you can be a non-blood related father. My ex husband has custody of one (two until the oldest reached the age of majority) children who were born of the marriage but proven by DNA testing to not be blood related to him. As far as the State of Kentucky is concerned since they were "born of the marriage" he is the legal father, but due to DNA testing he was found to not be the biological father.

Legal father DOES NOT EQUAL biological father.

After reading NY law the only ways to have your name added to the birth certificate are 1. Have the mother, as well as you, sign a form stating you are the father of the child. or 2. Have a court issue a finding of paternity.

But you know this whole discussion is giving me a headache. It is clear you will do whatever you can to continue free-loading off your USC children. You never cared about any of this for the past almost 12 years, it was only until you were unable to renew your driver's license that you developed a concern. All you have at this point is custody of two USC minors, who may or may not be your biological children, a possible spouse or possible ex-spouse who abused you years ago and you haven't had contact with in about 8 years, a spouse (or ex-spouse) who may or may not even live in the US or be an LPR or citizen, who may or may not be remarried.

Let me ask you this.....what are you going to do when the children turn 18 and you can no longer live off their benefits?