Abusive Relationships

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I don't think the person who is critical of your opinion understands the MENA culture or why women may believe that abuse in normal in that culture. If they understood perhaps they wouldn't be so critical? Or perhaps the person just likes to argue for the sake of arguing. Who knows. I have also noticed that many women, especially those unfamiliar with people from MENA and their culture, tend to think abuse and violence is the norm. It happens but it's not normal. Abuse is wrong no matter who is doing it or where they come from.

I would advise anyone entering into a relationship with a MENA man to research his culture (through unbiased sources), talk to people from that culture (other than the object of their affections), talk to other women who have been married to MENA men, etc. It would help understand what is typical and normal and what is not. Not that all MENA men are the same but there are many universal similarities.

And in some families it is the norm and YES if you witness it , you think its cultural.. I had family members of him witness things he did to me ( AFTER WE WERE MARRIED) and explained it away ... and I am guilty as charged of everything that was posted. It took me living by myself for a while and seeing how things were so much better and calmer to realise that you dont have to be hit to be abused. Mine kept tabs on everywhere I went and who I spoke with and kept me in a constant state of trauma. It wasnt until he went home for a family visit after a death that it really went through my thick skull just how much trouble I was in.. I dont think unless you have been through this with a mena spouse that you can understand it.. Its like spending all your money and being so emotionally invested in things working and yes there are HUGE differences sometimes and then watching it fall apart.. you feel like a failure and you put up with nonsense you normally wouldnt..Not all mena men are the same BUT there have been multiple incidences of women bringing men over here and then once they get over here they either abuse their wives or serially cheat and the americans go through hell.. please acknowledge that.. I tried super duper hard to be kind, loving giving and put up with everything.. never raised a voice to my husband, never hurt him and he still made an #### out of himself and mistreated me..I blamed myself for years and years and it wasnt my fault..Mithra...you can say that just like all mena men arent bad.. not all the americans that marry these guys and get screwed are at fault either.. For some of these guys its a plot to get papers and all kinds of hell breaks loose when they want to see other women and cant stay in character playing the game until they are able to do so.. and yes some of the women get very hurt along the way along with their kids.. Its very unfair to pidgeonhole everyone... sponsors or mena people because their are buttwipes on both sides.. trust me.. we need to be open minded to deviations on both..please stop blaming all the american women either.. I swear to god I tried and I never ever ever hurt my husband one single time.. but he hurt me and broke my heart.. I stuck it out with him through bad and good and still to this day have never hurt him.. but hes hurt me horribly.. I am in the process of a divorce that he refuses to help me get easily or pay for so please for the love of god. stop making this all the americans faults

Edited August 1, 2012 by Beauty for Ashes

[catknit 144]

And in some families it is the norm and YES if you witness it , you think its cultural..

I was completely and totally guilty of this thinking - but not with respect to physical abuse but more on the emotional/mental abuse side. About a gazillion years ago I would post occasionally here in MENA about my first husband [1st gen US citizen with parents from MENA]. We did not need to go through the whole visa thing as he was a USC. He was born and raised a mere 30 minutes from where I grew up. We went to the same university. I wasn't very familiar with MENA culture or Islam when we started dating. I had a few school acquaintances who were Muslim but no close friends....

We dated 18+ months before getting engaged. Saw each other a few times a week. Normal, "American" style dating.

In no way did I ever want to offend his family. It was apparent that family dynamics were different in his household. Raised voices, questionable mockery and comments flew at the dinner table, items would be thrown during arguments. All of this was brushed off by him and his siblings as "Arabs are just passionate and like to debate".

Had I dug deeper and asked more pointed and detailed questions, I don't think I would have continued in the relationship. If they hadn't been on their "best behavior" around me or if I had been more aware, maybe I won't have ended up in the mess our relationship became after all was said and done. A few things I learned during the course of our relationship [post-wedding] - my ex-FIL beat my ex-MIL [off and on over their whole 40 year marriage], the family was on the child protection watch list due to issues with some of the youngest siblings, my ex was beaten black and blue at least a few times for pretty minor chore-related offenses, there was a strong history of mental illness including a son who was/is institutionalized [from age 14, he's now 45]. And this was a LOCAL relationship.

With that type of dysfunction, I really couldn't blame my ex for being a mess - I could, however, blame him for the actions he chose in how to treat me. Additionally, his failure to agree to go to counseling to modify his behavior pretty much became the nails in the coffin of our marriage. In general, he had manipulation issues, constant badgering and constant put-downs, and used money, "rules" from Islam, and narcissism issues to control me. An example, a simple squabble about who left out milk would have me being a "stupid c#$%" and any argument back would result in him becoming ill [vomiting] and needing me to nurse him back to health until he knew I "loved" him again. He never hit me - I'll give him that. But, again, HOT MESS.

But, here's my point when you have the whole mixed-culture thing going on - I didn't call him out on stuff in the beginning thinking some of it WAS cultural [not hitting - but the subtle control issues before he went hardcore and wouldn't even let me see my own family]. Once you start to shift in one direction [oh, ok, you have to shop with me because I *need* a male chaperon], subtle escalations up into crazy-land don't necessarily seem that much worse or that crazy. And, again, I didn't want him to lose himself and make him unnecessarily WASPy because that wasn't who he was.

Now, I'm in another multi-cultural marriage and it's a complete non-issue. Culture and religion aren't held over my head like a weapon - and they shouldn't be.

[Mithra 1,185]

Kat, I'm not blaming American women for being abused. I'm not even blaming the member who was abused in Egypt yet still brought her husband here. People don't ask to be abused but my God if you get hit in Egypt at the beginning of a marriage that is going to set the tone for the entire marriage in Egypt and in the U.S. People don't magically change once they hit U.S. soil. I know some believe that. Common sense says, if you get hit once, you'll likely get hit twice and more. But then I've learned, common sense isn't all that common.

And you're right - you don't have to get hit to be a victim of abuse. Emotional abuse is probably more difficult to identify and to get away from. Emotional abuse is extremely damaging.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Mithra

[justashooter 430]

I know this is long but I found much of it to be potentially helpful. It's Egypt related but obviously these things happen in other places as well.

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN:...

http://www.egyptindependent.com/node/499745

amazing that people publish articles about what is common in a culture, and people not part of that culture say, "but my Hamid would never do that to me", as if they are somehow above reality.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Kat, I'm not blaming American women for being abused. I'm not even blaming the member who was abused in Egypt yet still brought her husband here. People don't ask to be abused but my God if you get hit in Egypt at the beginning of a marriage that is going to set the tone for the entire marriage in Egypt and in the U.S. People don't magically change once they hit U.S. soil. I know some believe that. Common sense says, if you get hit once, you'll likely get hit twice and more. But then I've learned, common sense isn't all that common.

And you're right - you don't have to get hit to be a victim of abuse. Emotional abuse is probably more difficult to identify and to get away from. Emotional abuse is extremely damaging.

To be extremely honest with you, I absolutely think that some of the women who get into these marriages, if they really look hard at themselves, know whats on the way. I absolutely with no reservations , loved my husband and he is now having problems with workmates and supervisors as he blows up and tantrums his way through life. I was terrified to go out at night or if I didnt make a phone call or did make it and constantly walked on egg shells. I completely accept responsibility for staying in the relationship too long but I can say honestly that I did do right by my husband and never hurt him so I am not carrying any of that pain..

Would I once I am divorced and finally out of this nonsense ever get involved with someone from MENA? I am not sure. Right now I dont feel like doing anything except taking a long #### nap and taking a break from waiting on someone hand and foot. I might someday.. but he would have to have papers and not need ANYTHING immigration wise. This whole experience has been such a protracted night mare for me.. now going on close to 6 years. Sure I feel lonely but he still bothers me.. and wont make it easy for us to divorce ( he already has all his papers.. I think he just wants to piss me off LOL) I miss some parts of him but I like having peace and quiet and honestly, after all his drama and his family's hot mess nonsense, I want to be around only very quiet people.. I love people from MENA and my daughters family is from Morocco. I feel very attached to mena people and love them dearly.. I just dont like the way that HE treated me .. I really stood by him and helped him and never did one hurt ful thing to him.. but he did hurt me too much.. As I look back Mithra, I choose to try to think that I am wiser now and learned things rather than looking at all I lost..

...sigh....