AP due to passport photos?

[asad313 18]

I accompanied my wife to her interview in Islamabad. We were asked some basic questions and the interviewer was polite -- I don't think he had any doubts about the validity of our marriage.

However, we were given a Refusal Worksheet [221(g) ?]. My wife wears hijab and per the requirements on the State Department's website, we submitted passport photos with her hair covered. The officer said we were going to have to re-submit new photos via courier with ears & hairline showing. I told him that this wasn't mentioned any where in the requirements to which he had no response.

Is this a valid requirement? I know it is a common requirement in Pakistan but can a specific embassy have different requirements than the State Department? We had no problems with USCIS or NVC when submitting similar photos.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

State Department Website:

Do not wear a hat or head covering that obscures the hair or hairline, unless worn daily for a religious purpose. Your full face must be visible, and the head covering must not cast any shadows on your face.

Refusal Worksheet:

The photo should be in color, 2" square, with a white background. You should face directly forward, preferably with both ears showing, and your full hairline (no hats, though women who need to cover their heads may do so as long as their hairline and preferably ears are showing)...

Edited July 26, 2012 by asad313

[belinda63 3,038]

I can't answer your question but I can give a reason for what they want. The US uses facial recognition for it's biometrics. It is used for immigrants, persons inside the US, diplomats, pretty much everyone. What it does is it uses the measurements from certain baseline areas to others to determine a percentage match, Say from the corner of the eye to the center of the ear. The more measurement matches the higher percentage the person is likely a match. When running background checks of the person they would also run them through to compare them to any known "baddies" to see if they match that way, from the photos. Just as an FYI a lot of states now have their drivers license photos available to the FBI's facial recognition database. So if you commit a crime and your photo is anywhere on a camera near the area of the crime(which it is almost impossible to be in public now days without being on camera somewhere) they can identify you.

Don't meant to hijack your thread with this, just trying to explain why they want the ears and hairline showing. Still can't answer the question if you are required to do it but if there is no religious objection I would retake the photos just to save the hassle.

[asad313 18]

I can't answer your question but I can give a reason for what they want. The US uses facial recognition for it's biometrics. It is used for immigrants, persons inside the US, diplomats, pretty much everyone. What it does is it uses the measurements from certain baseline areas to others to determine a percentage match, Say from the corner of the eye to the center of the ear. The more measurement matches the higher percentage the person is likely a match. When running background checks of the person they would also run them through to compare them to any known "baddies" to see if they match that way, from the photos. Just as an FYI a lot of states now have their drivers license photos available to the FBI's facial recognition database. So if you commit a crime and your photo is anywhere on a camera near the area of the crime(which it is almost impossible to be in public now days without being on camera somewhere) they can identify you.

Don't meant to hijack your thread with this, just trying to explain why they want the ears and hairline showing. Still can't answer the question if you are required to do it but if there is no religious objection I would retake the photos just to save the hassle.

Thanks, what you said makes sense. However, I have an issue with them not making this requirement clear -- even in my refusal letter it says "preferably ears showing" while the interviewer implied it was a firm requirement.

[SAJA 0]

I was also thinking about accompanying my wife when she goes for her interview in Islamabad. Did they easily allow you to go along with your wife for the interview?

[pushbrk 12,898]

Thanks, what you said makes sense. However, I have an issue with them not making this requirement clear -- even in my refusal letter it says "preferably ears showing" while the interviewer implied it was a firm requirement.

Time to snap to and follow instructions. No way around it. The Consular Officer made a judgment call about the photos and decided you were too close to the line to get approved. That photo goes on the actual visa and on the green card. Welcome to the USA.

Edited July 26, 2012 by pushbrk

[sn530 27]

If i wasent mistaken I would say this is borderline abusing power... actually it kind of is. The Hijab is a symbol of a devoted individual who practicies there religion and an observation of islamic believes. Lets have all the Seikh people take off there turbans when they apply also then in addition with facial hair its even more difficult to tell people apart.

Actually print this out and send it back to them;

http://travel.state.gov/passport/pptphotoreq/pptphotoreq_5333.html

have them read the section "Do not wear a hat or head covering that obscures the hair or hairline, unless worn daily for a religious purpose. Your full face must be visible, and the head covering must not cast any shadows on your face"

I am guessing perhaps the interviewer might have made a mistake or the picture you submitted did not show enough of the face.

[SmilesAbroad 27]

This is a definite abuse of power because he cannot force you to adhere to his own rule about passport photos. I have my USA driver's license with my hijaab on and the woman there had to look up in her book to make sure it was ok, and guess what? it was more than ok. As long as your wife wears it every day for her religion, no one can tell her to take it off for a picture. There is no requirement that her ears must be showing, unless she does not wearing a covering every day for religious reasons. This CO may be new and is trying to follow the usual requirement that ears and hairline must be showing, but it does NOT apply to hijaabis and other types of religious head covers.

[asad313 18]

I was also thinking about accompanying my wife when she goes for her interview in Islamabad. Did they easily allow you to go along with your wife for the interview?

It wasn't a problem at all for me. They will definitely let you inside the embassy. As for being there for the interview, I think it depends on the CO. Just make sure you have your US passport.

[asad313 18]

If i wasent mistaken I would say this is borderline abusing power... actually it kind of is. The Hijab is a symbol of a devoted individual who practicies there religion and an observation of islamic believes. Lets have all the Seikh people take off there turbans when they apply also then in addition with facial hair its even more difficult to tell people apart.

Actually print this out and send it back to them;

http://travel.state.gov/passport/pptphotoreq/pptphotoreq_5333.html

have them read the section "Do not wear a hat or head covering that obscures the hair or hairline, unless worn daily for a religious purpose. Your full face must be visible, and the head covering must not cast any shadows on your face"

I am guessing perhaps the interviewer might have made a mistake or the picture you submitted did not show enough of the face.

Yep, when I mentioned this to the CO, he ignored it. Not sure if it's worth the fight at this point.

[asad313 18]

This is a definite abuse of power because he cannot force you to adhere to his own rule about passport photos. I have my USA driver's license with my hijaab on and the woman there had to look up in her book to make sure it was ok, and guess what? it was more than ok. As long as your wife wears it every day for her religion, no one can tell her to take it off for a picture. There is no requirement that her ears must be showing, unless she does not wearing a covering every day for religious reasons. This CO may be new and is trying to follow the usual requirement that ears and hairline must be showing, but it does NOT apply to hijaabis and other types of religious head covers.

I probably could/should have clarified that this is her "normal dress" and religious practice. I figured being at the embassy in Pakistan, the CO would already be well aware of this fact -- specially since she was observing hijab at the interview and the photos submitted to USCIS/NVC stapled to the top of her packet in front of him also had her observing hijab.

[pushbrk 12,898]

I probably could/should have clarified that this is her "normal dress" and religious practice. I figured being at the embassy in Pakistan, the CO would already be well aware of this fact -- specially since she was observing hijab at the interview and the photos submitted to USCIS/NVC stapled to the top of her packet in front of him also had her observing hijab.

None of this really matters. If you want to be together in the USA, you'll comply with the requirements as delivered to you on interview day.

[SmilesAbroad 27]

None of this really matters. If you want to be together in the USA, you'll comply with the requirements as delivered to you on interview day.

Yes unfortunately that would be the easiest way to solve this problem since there is pretty much nothing to do when embassy workers abuse their power... But still I would call and call the embassy until you get through to someone and ask them about it, just in case they may say that this CO did not know about hijaab rules and fix it themselves. It doesn't hurt to try this way, but its not likely to be solved with anything other than submitting photos of her naked head and satisfying the CO.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Kyda

[asad313 18]

Resubmitted the photos and with the grace of God, my wife got a call from the couriers 9 days later to pick up her passport with visa!

Alhamdulillah.

[SmilesAbroad 27]

Resubmitted the photos and with the grace of God, my wife got a call from the couriers 9 days later to pick up her passport with visa!

Alhamdulillah.

That's great news Mash Allah

[Darnell 8,478]

photos is fun. Congratulation!