Michael Moore: It's the Guns - But We All Know, It's Not Really the Guns!

[mawilson 2,133]

Am I crazy, or is Michael Moore actually agreeing here that its not the fact that there are so many guns in a society, but the people in that society that are the problem? Guns don't kill people, Americans kill people?

I believe so, yes. In his movie, Bowling for Columbine, he argues that Canadians have easy access to guns as well, and a lower but comparable number of guns per capita, yet Canadians just don't kill people like Americans do.

[rocks 494]

Yes, the death penalty point is where he first lost me. It took me a couple days to stomach the ability to read on after that one, so I was a bit surprised that he was actually using the same argument that libertarians point out.

He makes some very good points. Death is far more "acceptable" here than in other countries. I've never seen such distrust and fear for a government than I have in America. Then there is the poverty issue. Combined, it makes for an angry country.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

I've never seen such distrust and fear for a government than I have in America.

It's hard-wired into our systems, though I think I'd call it "skepticism" more than fear. I don't think this is necessarily such a bad thing -- it's government of the people, by the people and for the people, of course. We need to make sure we hold our servants to account. Being skeptical of what they're doing involves us in the democratic process. Of course, skepticism manifests itself in myriad ways, from participation in town hall meetings to shoring up an arsenal and two years' worth of food (plus tinfoil) for protection from the government goons who are coming to slap us all into gulags. And everything in between.

Of course we have much, much less to fear than citizens of other countries.

[X Factor 1,112]

[Darnell 8,479]

Am I crazy, or is Michael Moore actually agreeing here that its not the fact that there are so many guns in a society, but the people in that society that are the problem? Guns don't kill people, Americans kill people?

That's what he's saying.

Further down, buried in his commentary, he talks of corporal punishment in schools and dueling.

[rocks 494]

It's hard-wired into our systems, though I think I'd call it "skepticism" more than fear. I don't think this is necessarily such a bad thing -- it's government of the people, by the people and for the people, of course. We need to make sure we hold our servants to account. Being skeptical of what they're doing involves us in the democratic process. Of course, skepticism manifests itself in myriad ways, from participation in town hall meetings to shoring up an arsenal and two years' worth of food (plus tinfoil) for protection from the government goons who are coming to slap us all into gulags. And everything in between.

Of course we have much, much less to fear than citizens of other countries.

It would be a little more understandable if there was something to fear! A little skepticism is OK, as you say we need to make sure the government are serving us correctly. It must be a tough life for those who live in constant fear of "the man".

[X Factor 1,112]

I believe so, yes. In his movie, Bowling for Columbine, he argues that Canadians have easy access to guns as well, and a lower but comparable number of guns per capita, yet Canadians just don't kill people like Americans do.

Illinois is one of the strictest state for gun control. Chicago also has the most gun related deaths.

CNN constantly points out that more people have died from gun shots in Chicago than soldiers in Afghanistan, so far this year. Obviously gun control is not working.

[X Factor 1,112]

One can conclude that even though Illinois has a super strict law on guns, they have the most killings in the country because only the bad guys have guns.

[rocks 494]

One can conclude that even though Illinois has a super strict law on guns, they have the most killings in the country because only the bad guys have guns.

How do you explain this then? Louisiana has some of the most relaxed gun laws, and has very similar statistics to Illinois.

• If you look at the firearms murder rate per 100,000 people, District of Columbia comes out top - with 16 firearms murders per 100,000 man, woman and child in the state. There were 99 firearms murders in DC in 2010, down 12% on 2009

• DC is followed by Louisiana (7.75) and Missouri (5.34)

• DC is also top for firearms robberies per 100,000 people - with 255.98

• If you look at aggravated assaults involving a firearm, Tennessee (129.87) and South Carolina (114.73) come above District of Columbia (99.25)

Link

Edited July 30, 2012 by rocks

[Ban Hammer 13,555]

How do you explain this then? Louisiana has some of the most relaxed gun laws, and has very similar statistics to Illinois.

might have something to do with the fed government releasing illegals in new orleans.

[rocks 494]

might have something to do with the fed government releasing illegals in new orleans.

What?

Also bare in mind that the population of Louisiana is far smaller than Illinois, but the number of murders is virtually the same.

Edited July 30, 2012 by rocks

[james&olya 1,121]

Illinois is one of the strictest state for gun control. Chicago also has the most gun related deaths.

CNN constantly points out that more people have died from gun shots in Chicago than soldiers in Afghanistan, so far this year. Obviously gun control is not working.

Gun control has minimal impact when the border between the area with 'gun-control' is completely open with the surrounding areas that do not! This is really quite simple and easy for anybody to understand that can apply simple reasoning and logic! Why then do you and your fellow gun-nuts seem to have such difficulty?

[Ban Hammer 13,555]

What?

Also bare in mind that the population of Louisiana is far smaller than Illinois, but the number of murders is virtually the same.

read this book, it has some rather interesting facts about new orleans and how the fed government dumps detained immigrants onto its streets.

link

and i'd rather not bare in mind, thank you.

[natty bumppo 297]

and i'd rather not bare in mind, thank you.

guess it all depends on who in your mind ... you are imagining bare ...

[rocks 494]

read this book, it has some rather interesting facts about new orleans and how the fed government dumps detained immigrants onto its streets.

link

and i'd rather not bare in mind, thank you.

New Orleans might be the most corrupt city in the country, it is true. This does mean that there are a lot of angry people here. Things like this happen:

New Orleans police are still seeking information about a teal pick-up truck that was driven through the front doors of the Orleans Parish district attorney's office last weekend. Surveillance videos released by the district attorney's office show the truck circling the block just after noon on Sunday, then speeding up the steps and through the office's front doors. A few seconds later, the truck backs out the same way it came in.

The license plate was not visible in any of the footage.

The most amazing thing about this was the only damage to the truck was it lost a wing mirror. That was almost a year ago, they never solved it. People don't just drive into the DA's office without there being a "problem" with the DA of some sort. This is not gun crime though, obviously. For a long time many murder cases in New Orleans were unsolved, so it was "easy" to get away with murder, literally. It has improved somewhat.

Guns are very easy to obtain in Louisiana, as they are here too. You can carry in your car as it is an extension of your home. This doesn't explain why it has almost the same number of murders as Illinois, with almost the same percentage of them being committed with guns. Illinois has almost 13 million inhabitants, Louisiana has just 4.5 million and yet the numbers are virtually the same. This means that Illinois doesn't have the worst problem in the country at all. Kennard said Illinois' gun laws weren't helping, but having virtually no laws in LA isn't helping either.