Michael Moore: It's the Guns - But We All Know, It's Not Really the Guns!

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

All of this gun talk reminded me of this...

[justashooter 430]

just another fat canadian dude with "America envy".

[Penny Lane 8,159]

just another fat canadian dude with "America envy".

There's always one person who says something ridiculous. Congrats, today it's you.

[mawilson 2,133]

I wouldn't say doomsday preppers are fearful of a lack of government. They are just delusional and paranoid. It is a mental disorder. Many of them are on this forum and they are all RWNs and love a lack of government.

Right, preppers are crazy, because the US is forever... just like the Soviet Union was or Yugoslavia. It's not like a country has ever collapsed or broken up in our lifetime.

In 1914, there were 55 recognized countries. In 1919, there were 59. In 1950, that number had reached 69. In 1960 - 90 nations. Now there are almost 200!

[웃 910]

Right, preppers are crazy, because the US is forever... just like the Soviet Union was or Yugoslavia. It's not like a country has ever collapsed or broken up in our lifetime.

In 1914, there were 55 recognized countries. In 1919, there were 59. In 1950, that number had reached 69. In 1960 - 90 nations. Now there are almost 200!

Yes, preppers are demented mentally ill people. We can agree to disagree.

[dalegg 143]

What if doomsday preppers aren't fearful of government, but instead they believe whole-heartedly in what Scientists are saying about the affects of global warming in the next few decades--more drought, dwindling food supplies, and they are preparing for the panic and unrest that will insue when that happens? If, afterall this is all true, everyone in America will want to be armed. Doomsday preppers might just be absolute believers in the Global Warming theory.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I'm coming out of the closet....

I am a PREPPER!

Seriously. I have weeks of food and water.

(Everyone near a fault line should be a prepper)

[웃 910]

I'm coming out of the closet....

I am a PREPPER!

Seriously. I have weeks of food and water.

Sorry, I am talking about hardcore "real" preppers. If you have a couple weeks or even months of canned food that's not a doomsday prepper.

I am speaking of the ones that have 1 year of food or more and their home doubles as an armed military base.

They expect a complete collapse where there is no food in grocery stories, currency goes to 0, and no more energy for transportation/heating homes/etc. No electricity and the power grid is turned off.

A complete shutdown where "people that are unprepared" are going to come to their military base / house to invade their food supply.

And the nuts will have trip wires, explosives, and a team of like-minded preppers with ARs to "deal with" (kill) the invaders.

Edited July 27, 2012 by ☠

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

How big is the USA and how many people are here?

Now, compare/contrast that with the rest of the world.

Okay, let's compare.

USA: 320MM people and roughly 10K gun deaths a year

Germany: 80MM people and roughly 200 gun deaths a year

So, the US has 4 times the population of Germany but 50 times the gun deaths. On the same scale as Germany, we would see 800 gun deaths a year - less than 10% of what we're seeing.

Now what?

[mawilson 2,133]

Okay, let's compare.

USA: 320MM people and roughly 10K gun deaths a year

Germany: 80MM people and roughly 200 gun deaths a year

So, the US has 4 times the population of Germany but 50 times the gun deaths. On the same scale as Germany, we would see 800 gun deaths a year - less than 10% of what we're seeing.

Now what?

You really should stop comparing the US to Germany.

Just because Germany can do X, Y, Z (balance its budget while having a strong social safety net, save, export, etc etc etc), doesn't mean other countries' governments or citizens can do the same.

Edited July 27, 2012 by mawilson

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You really should stop comparing the US to Germany.

Slim wanted a comparison. There's one. Take another industrialized country. Any one of them. And the results would be strikingly similar.

Just because Germany can do X, Y, Z (balance its budget while having a strong social safety net, save, export, etc etc etc), doesn't mean other countries' governments or citizens can do the same.

Appreciate your acknowledgement of German exceptionalism, though.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Oops - quoted a censored post. I hereby self censor...

Edited July 27, 2012 by Mr. Big Dog

[dalegg 143]

if we had strong gun laws that prohibited automatic and semi-automatic weapons and banned the sale of large magazines that can hold a gazillion bullets, well, then shooters like the man in Aurora would not be able to shoot so many people in just a few minutes.

But this, too, has a problem. There are plenty of guns in Canada (mostly hunting rifles) – and yet the annual gun murder count in Canada is around 200 deaths. In fact, because of its proximity, Canada's culture is very similar to ours – the kids play the same violent video games, watch the same movies and TV shows, and yet they don't grow up wanting to kill each other. Switzerland has the third-highest number of guns per capita on earth, but still a low murder rate.

Am I crazy, or is Michael Moore actually agreeing here that its not the fact that there are so many guns in a society, but the people in that society that are the problem? Guns don't kill people, Americans kill people?

[rocks 494]

Am I crazy, or is Michael Moore actually agreeing here that its not the fact that there are so many guns in a society, but the people in that society that are the problem? Guns don't kill people, Americans kill people?

He's saying that it is the combination of Americans and guns. It's not necessarily the people in society but what is acceptable or normal to Americans. The death penalty was his first point.

[dalegg 143]

He's saying that it is the combination of Americans and guns. It's not necessarily the people in society but what is acceptable or normal to Americans. The death penalty was his first point.

Yes, the death penalty point is where he first lost me. It took me a couple days to stomach the ability to read on after that one, so I was a bit surprised that he was actually using the same argument that libertarians point out.