Paperwork Questions, American wants to marry an Algerian Woman

[Kemal J. 3]

Ramadan Mubarak,

Hi everyone, this is my first post on the forum.

I am an American Man who is in love with and wants to to know information on marrying an Algerian Woman. We are around the same age, so there is no real age discrepancy, but we 'met' on-line and over about a year of communicating with each other developed intense feelings for each other.

I reside in the USA and do not have any short or mid term intentions of moving and seeking residence in Algeria because of my favorable employment situation at home. However it's certainly a possibility after a couple of years and she would prefer it.

This is no residency scam, we have genuine feelings for each other and she would actually prefer me to reside in Algeria, however due to my employment situation it's not possible immediately and I would rather see if she could come here with me for a couple of years and then afterward look into seeking residency in Algeria.

For now I would like to marry her this summer, while I am visiting her and her family, and then try to apply for a (K1 is it?) spouse Visa for her.

My questions are what sort of paperwork would I need as an American citizen? I understand at the minimum a birth certificate, identification (passport), a medical report from the wilaya/prefecture she resides in, and authorization from that wilaya ?

Are there any other things?

Is it more advisable to marry there and then have her apply for a visa to come to the USA, or is it better for her to seek a USA visa, and then get married here?

What are some pitfalls that experienced people on the forum have faced?

Thank you so very much !

[amykathleen2005 441]

If you marry in the summer then after you would file for a CRI visa. If you are going to wait then apply for a K-1 fiance visa and you will marry after she is in America with the visa. You will have to meet in person at least once in the two years before you filed for the K-1. Your choice.

This will give you a short overview:

http://www.visajourn...content/compare

Ignore the K-3 it isn't available anymore. Also check out the guides at the top of the page for specifics on how to file.

Edited July 24, 2012 by amykathleen2005

[momof1 205]

Are you muslim? There are rules in the Algerian family code about muslim females marrying only muslim men. If you're not, then I suggest a fiance visa and then marriage in the US. Also, make sure there is ample proof of her family supporting your union. Algerians, in my experience, have a hard time giving their daughters to foreigners... Heck they sometimes have trouble when the man isn't related.

If you are muslim, please disregard what I've written. Also, you're going to need a visa as the guest of an Algerian family. They will need to mail you an official invitation letter notarized in their province. The current cost for a visa is approx $160.

[Kemal J. 3]

Wow Everyone ! Thank you for your very rapid replies, the advice regarding ignoring the K3, and other tidbits of information.

I am indeed Muslim, so religiously there should be no objection. One thing that was mentioned elsewhere however is that Algerian birth certificates state a person's marital status, American ones do not. Therefore I would need some sort of certificate that I an eligible to marry (e.g. not currently married to anyone else)

My State does not have any such certificate however, aand I'm certain the US federal government does not either. I've tried contacting the US embassy in Algeria, while they have been slightly helpful in directing me to some paperwork, in this one matter they haven't really given me a direct answer - which is weird.

They have directed me everywhere but haven't really said yay or nay if they are able to issue this type of certificate.

Again, thank you everyone for your replies and shedding more light on this.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Born Muslim, or converted? Some countries, someone who knows Algeria will hopefully clarify if it's the case there, require paperwork/certification of religious affiliation, such as from a local masjid in the states in order to marry one of their citizens.

[momof1 205]

Good one, Sandinista. If they are indeed a convert it is a good idea to get the certificate, plus arabic cert translation, in the US than from an imam in Algeria.

I have no clue on the "free to marry" paper though.

[Sarah B 26]

Hi! When I was in Tunisia doing our paperwork, I had to get proof from the US government that I was "free to marry." At the US Embassy in Tunisia you could do a paper called an affidavit of single status which you can get notarized at the embassy in Algiers. Here is the link: http://algiers.usembassy.gov/notarial3.html Make sure to call them to make sure that they do indeed do this document

I would recommend that you get this paper at the embassy as soon as you arrive because I do not know what part of Algeria your bride to be is in, and having the paper simplified my life

Good luck to you!

Wow Everyone ! Thank you for your very rapid replies, the advice regarding ignoring the K3, and other tidbits of information.

I am indeed Muslim, so religiously there should be no objection. One thing that was mentioned elsewhere however is that Algerian birth certificates state a person's marital status, American ones do not. Therefore I would need some sort of certificate that I an eligible to marry (e.g. not currently married to anyone else)

My State does not have any such certificate however, aand I'm certain the US federal government does not either. I've tried contacting the US embassy in Algeria, while they have been slightly helpful in directing me to some paperwork, in this one matter they haven't really given me a direct answer - which is weird.

They have directed me everywhere but haven't really said yay or nay if they are able to issue this type of certificate.

Again, thank you everyone for your replies and shedding more light on this.

[Kemal J. 3]

Hello everyone, thanks again.

I am not a convert, but my parents were. I was raised up in Islam. I wonder if that will make a difference. I suppose I could always ask my imam to write something up if it comes to that.

Thanks !

[Henia 11]

Salaam, hello!

I live in Algeria so I know the "system" and consular office inside and out. I was married in Algeria, applied for the visa,etc

1 - No Algerian woman or man will get a tourist visa easily, so I would say forget about this. They are only offering student exchange, business and medical visas easily. And the family related one, well you don't met the requirements.

2 - To marry an Algerian woman in Algeria, as already mentioned you need to be Muslim. If you are not Muslim, not only will the family not agree but it's not lawful.

3 - If you don't met the income standards then you shouldn't apply for the visa. You will only be denied and waste the money. But I'm not sure if you are aware, but you can have co-sponsor or add any assets you have to make up the difference.

4 - If you are a Muslim, and would like to be married here in Algeria while you are here. First, you need to discuss this with her family. Then for religious reasons, find a imam who will marry you to her. Many imams are not willing to marry foreigners to Algerians in fear of visa scams. Your future FIL or BIL can help you find one.

5 - You need to get a certificat d' chahada (saying you reverted to Islam) They won't ask you for a cert issued in the US, but if you have one, it will only help. And if you were born into a Muslim family, well then the WHOLE process from dealing with the parents, to dealing with the governement and religious ministry will be easier for you. The process takes about 3months to be issued. The cert for this you start at the ministry of religion in your SO's home wilaya (province) Once you have done this, you can go ahead and apply for a marriage certificate at the daira (town hall) ... the process from there I can explain later. OR optionally taker her and her family to get married in Tunisia (the process is shorter there) I'm not sure if they require you to be Muslim there or not. Maybe ones married there can explain this.

6 - You can easily obtain a document from the registar in the US statting you have never been married. I did this for myself, when I came here and got married here with my husband.

Mom of 1, while yes I would say Algerians are traditional people, I wouldn't say they are not going to allow this marriage. There are traditional families where they do indeed try to seek marriages within their family but then others more modern open minded. I know several Algerian woman married to foreign man. One couple even living here in Algeria. I think it is all about niyaa(intention) of the couple.

And finally a final tip, if you can manage it, wy not bring your parents (or least one) when you go to visit the girl? This way everyone will feel more comfortable about your intentions.

If I can help in anything further, I am happy to ... just ask!

[Kemal J. 3]

Salam alaikum Henia, Ramadan Mubarak

Thank you for the advice, I was able to go to Algeria last year but it was a stressful heartbreaking experience for me. Her family was wonderful, and completely approved of her wanting to marry me, I stayed with her brother's family, and they were very wonderful people and very hospitable. I felt very much at home. I have wonderful memories and returned home with a great love for the people of Algeria because of the hospitality and warmth I experienced.

The 'Ministére des affaires religieuse - Ministry of Religious affairs - in Algiers was a large hurdle I had to go through, while I was there.

Regarding the certificate, I am born in a Muslim family but this actually made it worse, it would have been a bit easier if I was a convert. The ministry of religious affairs in Algiers refused to accept a certificate stating my Islam from my Imam, and wanted me to provide instead a certificate of my FATHER'S conversion to Islam.

This was a problem because my father died 8 years ago. I had to locate and contact some of his old friends who witnessed his chahada over 40 years ago, and I located an Imam who knew my father when they were both young in University. A new certificate was prepared and the document was emailed to an Arabic translator from Saudi who offered to do it. However the word that he used to translate "conversion" was not acceptable to the ministry of religious affairs. The certificate was rejected. This was corrected, a new certificate sent to me, however the ministry did not like it's design, the man at the desk said that it did not look enough like a proper certificate should, and that anyway I should have it stamped by the Algerian embassy in Washington DC, then they would completely accept my new certificate. Of course this meant I would have to do this after I got back to America, and go to Washington. Also when I contacted the Algerian embassy in Washington to explain my situation, they said they would not stamp such a certificate because I would be presenting it, however my father is deceased, so they could attest to my presenting it to them but they could not possibly be expected to stamp anything attesting to something concerning a man no longer living.

It was VERY frustrating and discouraging and towards the end, it was almost comical.

If anyone else is facing a similar situation, in advance make sure you get the exact name for the certificate d' chahada in Arabic, they are expecting a specific title. The man admitted that if I had just produced a certificate with the title he was looking for and also had the Embassy in Washington DC stamp and approve it, then he would find it acceptable. I was very naive and thought just bringing a certificate with me would suffice, but it did not.

The alternate option would be for her to come to the USA, for us to be married here, and then apply for a Marriage Visa. My town's new Imam from Mauritania is very knowledgable of such efforts and struggles. This was the only practical option open to me, due to the difficulty of getting a tourist visa to Algeria again, and my work situation which gives me limited vacation days.

In the end, I able to help her get a tourist visa to come to the USA with an invitation letter, unfortunately due to many factors I had to break off our engagement. I love her greatly but came to realize this process was not something that would be in her or my best interests. The stress from it all almost led me to getting fired from my job due to poor performance, and I came to understand, deeply understand, that there were massive cultural issues as well. The process nearly caused a nervous breakdown in me. I now have elevated blood pressure (I'm not even 40 yet, how could I possibly have high blood pressure!) and brought to the surface many cultural and personal issues that would also serve as obstacles.

Perhaps things could have been different. Perhaps Allah will make a way for us, or give her something better than me, and make her happy and well pleased.

I learned a lot about myself, and the world, and my own naiveté. And I learned and realized I could not continue on a process that would only bring hurt and frustration to a woman I love more than the world.

I pray for her happiness, and I pray others facing a similar situation are able to easily find a way to be with the person they love.

Thank you.

Salaam, hello!

I live in Algeria so I know the "system" and consular office inside and out. I was married in Algeria, applied for the visa,etc

1 - No Algerian woman or man will get a tourist visa easily, so I would say forget about this. They are only offering student exchange, business and medical visas easily. And the family related one, well you don't met the requirements.

2 - To marry an Algerian woman in Algeria, as already mentioned you need to be Muslim. If you are not Muslim, not only will the family not agree but it's not lawful.

3 - If you don't met the income standards then you shouldn't apply for the visa. You will only be denied and waste the money. But I'm not sure if you are aware, but you can have co-sponsor or add any assets you have to make up the difference.

4 - If you are a Muslim, and would like to be married here in Algeria while you are here. First, you need to discuss this with her family. Then for religious reasons, find a imam who will marry you to her. Many imams are not willing to marry foreigners to Algerians in fear of visa scams. Your future FIL or BIL can help you find one.

5 - You need to get a certificat d' chahada (saying you reverted to Islam) They won't ask you for a cert issued in the US, but if you have one, it will only help. And if you were born into a Muslim family, well then the WHOLE process from dealing with the parents, to dealing with the governement and religious ministry will be easier for you. The process takes about 3months to be issued. The cert for this you start at the ministry of religion in your SO's home wilaya (province) Once you have done this, you can go ahead and apply for a marriage certificate at the daira (town hall) ... the process from there I can explain later. OR optionally taker her and her family to get married in Tunisia (the process is shorter there) I'm not sure if they require you to be Muslim there or not. Maybe ones married there can explain this.

6 - You can easily obtain a document from the registar in the US statting you have never been married. I did this for myself, when I came here and got married here with my husband.

Mom of 1, while yes I would say Algerians are traditional people, I wouldn't say they are not going to allow this marriage. There are traditional families where they do indeed try to seek marriages within their family but then others more modern open minded. I know several Algerian woman married to foreign man. One couple even living here in Algeria. I think it is all about niyaa(intention) of the couple.

And finally a final tip, if you can manage it, wy not bring your parents (or least one) when you go to visit the girl? This way everyone will feel more comfortable about your intentions.

If I can help in anything further, I am happy to ... just ask!

[Kemal J. 3]

Also, a tip to anyone who is considering the process of marrying a beloved in Algeria. While I am an American citizen, people from other countries like Britain may also be able to find some of this of use.

REMEMBER TO BE VERY HUMBLE. Algeria’s legal system is VERY different from Anglo-Saxon/American legal systems. What we do in America REALLY makes no sense to people in other countries. Likewise what you encounter may seem to make no sense to you, because you are used to something different. Francophone countries run off different legal principles than Anglophone ones. These principles make sense in the culture. Just be patient and humble.

Do request information on the chahada of conversion - شهادة اعتناق الإسلام - in advance, make sure that you clearly understand what they want to know on it, and whose signatures they want on it. Since it may take a long time to get an answer if you can have someone in Algiers talk to the Ministére des affaires religieuses in advance, this will help you.

The details in the certificate really do matter. For example, the Minister, in response to my frustration, showed me some examples of certificates he rejected. One was for a Pakistani, issued by the main Regent’s Park Mosque in London. I was surprised and told him I had been to London and it was a major mosque, why would he reject it? If I recall his words, he said the certificate didn’t clearly indicate the man converted. I opined “He’s Pakistani, he was born in Islam!” That really didn’t matter, his certificate should have clearly indicated it was a conversion certificate, and that he was born into Islam at such a such a time, had the proper title, AND been stamped by the Algerian embassy in London. So if you are British, whether born into Islam or a convert, be clear to attend to those details !

Americans be aware that the American embassy in Algiers can take a LONG time to reply to inquiries, so if you think you will need ANY assistance be sure to email them well in advance. Also I got a couple of snarky mildly sarcastic replies to my emails when I indicated some frustration with hard to understand replies from the American embassy. They have a sense of humor, it seems… If I were petty I’d complain to the State Department... but I won't.

Regarding certifying I was "free to marry" a trip to my county courthouse in the USA was able to produce a notarized certificate indicating no marriages had been recorded for me in their records. I was able to take this to Algiers and my fiancé had it translated into French by a competent translator of official documents.

One should make MULTIPLE copies of everything, multiple offices in your fiancé’s Wilayat as well as in Algiers may need a copy.

Your birth certificate is an important detail. It would be good to request from your state of birth multiple copies, say 2 or 3, of your birth certificate, all official long form certificates. This may take some time so plan in advance (it took me a few weeks to get mine from my state of birth).

The Algerian system of birth certificates is very much like the French system. Which is TOTALLY different from the Anglo-American system. It may be very difficult for this to be understood. For example though it seems an anachronism, certificates that one is free to marry do exist in French legal systems, they do not in America but if you know what to ask your county's courthouse you will be able to get something that suffices. In numerous countries, like Algeria, birth certificates are easily and regularly issued, m hence they may ask for a recent one. This does not happen in America, people typically just get one birth certificate and keep it for a long time unless it's lost.

Accept the beauty of your beloved's country, it's ways may be different than your's, but Algeria (and the Maghrib in general) has a beauty and grace that is palpable and real. There are disparities in wealth, and amenities but in some ways Americans would be surprised, many Algerians live far better, in essential ways, than we do. Their food quality is better, the produce, the houses are solid and beautiful unlike the cheap sheetrock drywall and plywood "Mansions" we have in America. The toilets and bathing system makes a lot of sense, people grow grapes in their backyards, family still matters immensely there in ways that have almost died out here in America.

It's a beautiful country and culture and respect it, your beloved's folk and nation, and do not try to mentally impose your ways on them, rather be open to their ways of doing things.

You will encounter stress and frustrations, say Mashallah to yourself, and realize it's a learning experience.

That's all, I hope it's of help.

[Kemal J. 3]

An update for those who are interested.

So far my story is going well. Alhamdulillah my wife and I are now married, in the USA. It was very difficult and lengthy in Algeria due issues concerning my chahada of Islam, so she applied for a tourist visa, was granted one, and flew to the USA. This was after I had given up, but al hamdulillah she had faith and persevered and believed that she and I must be together, I feel like a fool for having given up due to the difficulties.

We got a civil marriage after obtaining a marriage license at my local probate court, and then took the license to an Imam I knew who performed an Islamic nikah,the fatiha and kitab etc.

She went home and did not overstay her visa, we will now do everything by the books on the USA end and apply for a Marriage Visa here. Inshallah everything will go well, and I will be happy to share with the community my story and any successes (and God forbid setbacks) we encounter.

Thank you, again, everyone who replied.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Wow! I'm glad you came back for an update, and with good news to boot. Hopefully the rest of your process goes smoothly, and you guys can get on with your lives together.

Best of luck

[Nasturtium 500]

Great update! There is very little information on this board as far as personal experience of USC men marrying MENA women. There have been a few, but the majority are USC women applying for men. Although in theory it shouldn't matter, there are sometimes special things which go along with this gender difference, including in the other country. So hopefully your experiences will be helpful to others in the future!

[Sarah Elle-Même 660]

Wow! What a story. Sorry you had to overcome such tremendous odds, but your success in the end was meant to be! A big Mabrouk to you! Hoping that the rest of us who are encountering roadblocks and challenges come out victorious as you have.