Another case of Gun Control -Backfiring.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I don't have alot of expert knowledge about firearms or weaponry in general. I think there should be some tracking processes that will trigger (pun intended) unusual purchases.

For example if someone buys enough assault rifles, magazines, clips, etc... for a small army in one afternoon, maybe that could be cause for concern.

And I'm not talking about government involvement. I'm talking about the industry itself. Much like the airline industry has protocols in place to protect fliers. They adapt and change their systems in response to different threats/situations. Do these protocols threaten anyone's right to fly? NO. Would protocols or safety procedures in sales of weaponry threaten anyone's right to bear arms? NO.

I really just believe for the safety of ALL citizens in the country, there needs to be some discussion on the table about this. I don't pretend to have answers for all of the problems at hand involving security for everyone but I don't think a discussion about solutions is unreasonable.

Thats pretty much already the case. If you buy 30 to 40 guns (without an FFL) in one go the ATF will be at your door. I also support the 10 day waiting period and one handgun per 30 days.

But then in this case, that would not have helped here.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Sousuke

[DaveE 178]

It's all hype. Murder in the US by rifles, is almost exactly tied with shotguns, with handguns far and away the leader. Assault weapons sounds so scary and makes good press.

Actually if you want to ban something, it would be hands, fists, and feet, as almost twice as many homicides are commited with them as shotguns or rifles.

FBI data here: FBI homicide by firearm type

[rocks 494]

So what features do you personally think make a firearm an assault weapon?

Power, distance, accuracy.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Power, distance, accuracy.

7mm mag. Flat projectory and is the rifle to have when hunting sheep. So this is an assault rifle in your eyes?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Power, distance, accuracy.

If that is the case, the weapon used is not exactly a large powerful caliber.

[rocks 494]

7mm mag. Flat projectory and is the rifle to have when hunting sheep. So this is an assault rifle in your eyes?

I guess I forgot to add the size of the magazine. Obviously you can get an extended magazine for a Glock too, which I also don't think we need.

[natty bumppo 297]

Yes, and that is where being accountable for everything that you buy would come in. I wasn't really suggesting that it should cost $5000 a bullet, it was a comedy sketch. The issues that I see are the sale of extended magazines, assault weapons and being able to buy unlimited amounts of ammo and it not being monitored by anyone. If you go to a shooting range then it should be easy to explain why you need to buy all the ammo and you wouldn't mind showing proof that you go to a shooting range to do that. I don't at all think your right to go shooting should be restricted.

i account for all my ammo ... heck it's even kinda fun to call the shot.

not everyone shots at a formal range. there are many other safe places to shoot where big brother doesn't (and can't) watch every move. just got back shooting thousands of rounds with family & friends on the family farm in northern ohio. ammo (.22, 25-06, M2 ball, 12g, +various pistol calibers). i didn't see any "big brothers" watching us shoot ... we had a safe place to shoot with an excellent backstop, monitored ourselves, and had zero incidents (imagine that .... )

who do you envision showing "proof" to in this instance for purchasing ammo?

real assault weapons (as opposed to the media term) are highly regulated, expensive, and have strict rules regarding ownership. they are also expensive to feed.

[Karee 4,190]

They should make it like a needle exchange program where you have to turn in dirty needles to get clean ones.

If you want new ammo, you have to turn in spent shells to get it.

This whole conversation started reminding me of that. Of course it's absurd, but a little funny.

[natty bumppo 297]

They should make it like a needle exchange program where you have to turn in dirty needles to get clean ones.

If you want new ammo, you have to turn in spent shells to get it.

This whole conversation started reminding me of that. Of course it's absurd, but a little funny.

like the haz sharps collecting bins in may restrooms? guess you like people carrying around used needles to get new ones later ....

what do you have against people who load their own ammo?

that is the only way i can shoot some of my rifles ... nobody manufacturers commercial loaded ammo in these calibers ... and if they did it would be outrageously expensive with horrible accuracy

[Karee 4,190]

like the haz sharps collecting bins in may restrooms? guess you like people carrying around used needles to get new ones later ....

what do you have against people who load their own ammo?

that is the only way i can shoot some of my rifles ... nobody manufacturers commercial loaded ammo in these calibers ... and if they did it would be outrageously expensive with horrible accuracy

Apparently reading comprehension is not one of your better skills. Maybe take a day off from the range and pick up a book? Lighten up. I said this at the end:

Of course it's absurd, but a little funny.

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

That's where those guns belong, in the military. You still haven't said why you need one in your home.

oh i did, just you weren't paying attention. it's a varmit round. we have coyotes. put the two together.

I'm not at all saying that we should take away all the guns, we have guns in our house. However, these assault weapons really aren't warranted and something needs to be done about the large volumes of ammunition that can be purchased. What are your suggestions?

first, define an assault weapon and then large volume of ammunition.

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

Power, distance, accuracy.

specifics, please. what is power? what distance? how accurate?

and last but not least, one post removed for a personal attack.

[slim 1,525]

Throughout this thread I've seen the question of "why does someone need ______?"

The simple answer is because it's required by the constitution. In the second amendment it says it's necessary. We're supposed to have "military-grade weaponry" to discourage the government from being tyrannical. That's the original intent of the second amendment. (Secondary and tertiary intents are to suppress insurrections and repel invasions - do you wanna take your duck hunting shotgun to that?)

The complex answer is a militia unit can be more effective with "assault rifles" and thousands of rounds of ammo, bullet-resistant clothing, gas masks, etc. but can still get the job done with the simplest of firearms, ala the Liberator pistol, or even bottles of gasoline and a match. Many wars around the world are fought with little more than machetes. However, our framers - who'd just waged a successful war for independence from their own government - decided to include the generic term "arms" into our constitution so as not to be confusing.

And it wasn't. Up until 1934 there really were no rules for private ownership. Only when the majority of folks started going from those in the gun-culture ("My daddy taught me to shoot when I was six. Uncle Sam taught me the rest.") to those in the suit and tie world of cities without guns (like Chicago!) did the sentiment of what was "necessary" start to change. John Dillinger shouldn't have a Tommy gun!

Many argue the military, national guard, police forces, etc., have rendered the necessity of the people to be a militia as unnecessary. However, as another poster pointed out here, that's never been amended in our constitution and until that changes, we are still the militia.

If we are the militia we should be as well-regulated (which doesn't mean lots of laws - it means lots of practice!) as possible and whatever is available as "arms" should not only be available, but encouraged!

I don't have alot of expert knowledge about firearms or weaponry in general.

It's a real shocker that someone who's not very knowledgeable on firearms would be concerned about them.

In all seriousness, educate yourself. I think you'll find some big surprises once you get into how they work and what freedom really means.

I think there should be some tracking processes that will trigger (pun intended) unusual purchases.

For example if someone buys enough assault rifles, magazines, clips, etc... for a small army in one afternoon, maybe that could be cause for concern.

When has that ever made a difference in a mass shooting? The last couple incidents have been pulled off by young men who legally purchased their arms and ammo.

Is another law going to help that?

And I'm not talking about government involvement. I'm talking about the industry itself. Much like the airline industry has protocols in place to protect fliers. They adapt and change their systems in response to different threats/situations. Do these protocols threaten anyone's right to fly? NO. Would protocols or safety procedures in sales of weaponry threaten anyone's right to bear arms? NO.

Airlines provide a service. Gun industry provides a product.

Is it the "business" and/or "sales" of these products that's causing the problem? When "safety procedures" are put in place they may not threaten anyone's rights to bear arms, but they sure do inconvenience them. For instance, every single time I buy a gun from a FFL (dealer) I have to wait at least three days. That doesn't threaten my rights, but while they're busy "checking" I'm sitting at home with all my previously purchased firearms.

Effectiveness aside - We're paying a lot of tax dollars to operate that system.

I really just believe for the safety of ALL citizens in the country, there needs to be some discussion on the table about this. I don't pretend to have answers for all of the problems at hand involving security for everyone but I don't think a discussion about solutions is unreasonable.

I'm willing to entertain the idea of discussions. Where we run into problems is there's only one thing that stops violent people from doing violent things - other violent people.

Do you think it's a coincidence that this armor-clad, gas masked, gun-toting shooter surrendered to the other folks who showed up with guns? I find it humorous some folks on here have no better plan of action to engage an active shooter than to "hope" it will be alright.

Sounds a lot like their plan of action for our country. "Hope" it works out for them.

[rocks 494]

specifics, please. what is power? what distance? how accurate?

and last but not least, one post removed for a personal attack.

If you need a gun to defend yourself, it doesn't need to be able to shoot through brick walls. It doesn't need extended magazines. What is the justification for extended magazines?

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

If you need a gun to defend yourself, it doesn't need to be able to shoot through brick walls. It doesn't need extended magazines. What is the justification for extended magazines?

how thick of a brick wall? the ar-15 won't shoot through a brick wall.

again, what definition are we using for an extended magazine?