Back from Kazan

[slim 1,523]

I'm glad Cam shared what he did and there's no discredit to him coming from me. I think it's only natural for a man, any man, to be "offered" the goods and services of Russia/FSU and be pleasantly surprised. Maybe even partake in the local customs, so to speak.

This ####### about, "he was going there to meet his fiancee and they should've been 100% in love" etc., is merely that, #######! When you shell out thousands of dollars to take a "fact-finding" trip to the other side of the world, I believe you're entitled to check out anything and everything you can. Truth be told, you SHOULD take advantage of everything offered at your destination in order to truly ascertain if what you have is what you want.

I don't want to discredit anyone's relationship or personal scenario, but when you "point, click, get engaged" you're selling yourself short unless that's what you want. Everyone has their own circumstances and wants something different, but to say a guy is "not right" for going over there and doing a little more than "following up" on his e-mails and phone calls to a woman he's never met before, sets yourself up to say you are not right for marrying a person you barely even know.

Bottom line - Everyone is looking for something specific when they go over there. Maybe Cam (and others) don't have such a specific goal in mind and broaden their search just a little more. If it includes something you deem unacceptable, then don't go over there and do what he did. Do what you did (or are going to do.) But don't knock Cam or anyone like him in the meantime. Could be he's making a smarter decision than all the rest of us. Taking several trips and time to decide is never a bad thing.

For those who say he should concentrate on just one woman, did you only click on one profile when you got started? You sorted through the "possibles" and narrowed it down. He's doing the same thing, just on a broader (and er, more hands-on) scale.

[mox 298]

I agree with you mostly slim. Different strokes for different folks (or was that another thread?) and all that. I have a personal set of values and some lines I won't cross, but we're all adults here and we're free to determine our own values and lines. I hope Cam comes back to the forum and shares his newest experiences, and I hope he won't censor himself because some drive-by self-righteous trolls felt offended over a year ago. For those of us who have been to Kazan (which is very near Kazzan from what I'm told), you simply can't spend any time over there without having a weird story or two to tell, and very often those stories involve...shall we say...some risque play.

The only real caveat I would say is that if you're going to bump nasties with someone outside of the person you went over to meet, at least do it before you meet them or after you have mutually decided not to continue your relationship. Of course it gets pretty gray if you've gone over to meet multiple someones, but it's pretty low class to be in a committed relationship with a woman and then turn around and sleep with another woman, even if you're paying that other woman. Unless she's in to that of course, and then hey man, sounds like she's a keeper!

Edited September 17, 2008 by mox

[Chuckles 0]

I don't remember actually saying he paid a prostitute for sex. I only recall him saying he had some story involving a hooker that he never elaborated on. I really don't want to read this again, so if I am wrong, whatever.

[mox 298]

I don't remember actually saying he paid a prostitute for sex. I only recall him saying he had some story involving a hooker that he never elaborated on. I really don't want to read this again, so if I am wrong, whatever.

He said:

Couldn't go to Russia with having a beautiful Russian hooker, but that is another story.

He doesn't exactly say he paid her, but it seems to be implied. Again, not judging. I'm all for prostitution actually. Legalized prostitution would make it safer for the women and the men all around. But I do believe money was exchanged, and a good time was had by all.

Is it just me, or does this forum have the best stories? I mean, I've been to the UK and Europe, lived in Scotland for 3 years, lived in Saudi Arabia for 9 months, had some interesting times and all that, but absolutely nothing beats my short time in Russia, just in terms of pure jaw-dropping "holy #### did I just see what I think I saw," or "holy #### did I just do what I think I did?" moments. Maybe it was that I was so far into the interior.

[akdiver 3]

He doesn't exactly say he paid her, but it seems to be implied. Again, not judging. I'm all for prostitution actually. Legalized prostitution would make it safer for the women and the men all around. But I do believe money was exchanged, and a good time was had by all.

By definition, the fact that she is a hooker, more or less indicates she was paid. It's possible she gave him some sympathy sex I guess. It's possible she just jumped at the chance to have sex with some American who was there investigating the possibility to getting engaged to someone else - because, you know, according to Russian mythology, American men are fantastic lovers and you should #### them whenever possible, even if it means taking a loss on the transaction. It's even possible that he was supposed to pay her, but "stiffed her". But my guess is the most obvious and probable one - that the hooker was paid for services rendered.

As I probably noted on here earlier - I'm all for prostitution. If you can sell your mind, why not your body? If you can sell your body digging ditches and doing hard labour, why shouldn't you sell it for more pleasurable activities? The moralism around prostitution is just loony. However - if Cam was unwilling or unable to inform the woman the he went to Kazan to meet that he had sex with a hooker - then he is hiding something, for one reason or another. Most of the time, in this case, someone would hide something because they fear the reaction of someone they would tell. That being the case, it seems dishonest to the girl he was going to meet. After all, if it were all perfectly natural and there is nothing wrong with it, then why NOT tell her? Only one reason - 'cause she wouldn't have anything to do with him afterward. The fact that he came on here and blabbed about it just emphasizes this point.

Edited September 18, 2008 by akdiver

[slim 1,523]

Is it just me, or does this forum have the best stories? I mean, I've been to the UK and Europe, lived in Scotland for 3 years, lived in Saudi Arabia for 9 months, had some interesting times and all that, but absolutely nothing beats my short time in Russia, just in terms of pure jaw-dropping "holy #### did I just see what I think I saw," or "holy #### did I just do what I think I did?" moments. Maybe it was that I was so far into the interior.

If you wanna talk crazy times, both Korea and Bahrain are pretty high on my list. Like you said though, there is a "#######?" factor in Russia that doesn't apply to the same degree in a lot of other places. There's a danger element that goes along with all the drinking, sex and drugs that's more pervasive in Eastern Europe than maybe anywhere else in the world.

By definition, the fact that she is a hooker, more or less indicates she was paid. It's possible she gave him some sympathy sex I guess.

Hookers are like taxi cabs... as long as the meter's off, it's just a car!

[mox 298]

I would say that the golden rule applies: if you would not be ok with your prospective girl sampling the local boy-toys during whatever phase of your relationship you happen to be in, then you probably ought not to do it yourself.

[akdiver 3]

I would say that the golden rule applies: if you would not be ok with your prospective girl sampling the local boy-toys during whatever phase of your relationship you happen to be in, then you probably ought not to do it yourself.

I was going to add something like that to my last post...."If the girl you went to see in Russia told you something like, "oh yeah, last night some guy paid me $100 to have sex with him. It was easy money. I told him to come back after you leave if he wants to spend another $100," would that be something that would affect your interest in pursuing a relationship with her?

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

Most definitely true! Always loved the old double standard. Its fine for the guy to go over there and meet multiple women and perhaps sample each. However, each one of those girls had better be 100% faithful, to him, until he decides between them!

I would say that the golden rule applies: if you would not be ok with your prospective girl sampling the local boy-toys during whatever phase of your relationship you happen to be in, then you probably ought not to do it yourself.

[Mags 112]

Is it just me, or does this forum have the best stories?

Oh my gawds, yes! Me the Russian forum!

[slim 1,523]

There has to be an agreed upon standard. Or, you can "forget" to set a standard. If both parties never really bring it up, then it doesn't really exist, right? Then by having no standard there is indeed, a standard. And that is a standard of no standard.

Along the lines of standards....

Quantity or quality?

And would a change in your quality standard have effected your quantity standard? Here? Abroad? Compare and contrast, for the masses....

[mox 298]

There has to be an agreed upon standard. Or, you can "forget" to set a standard. If both parties never really bring it up, then it doesn't really exist, right? Then by having no standard there is indeed, a standard. And that is a standard of no standard.

So just to add to my previous post, I would say that in the absence of an "agreed upon standard," the golden rule is the default. That is, in the absence of an agreement, you shouldn't be engaging in behavior that you wouldn't want your partner engaging in.

In fact...let me jump on the other side of the fence now, just because it's fun. Cam took a lot of shiт for his hooker story because many saw it as unfair and disrespectful to the woman. Some members of this forum came riding to his rescue, saying that it was his right to sample the local delicacies.

Now...imagine if Cam's story had gone something like this: He had gone over to Kazan, remained faithful to his beautiful Tatar woman, only to find out on the last day of his trip that she had been sleeping with other men while he was there. She explained to him that she loved him very much, and that these men meant nothing to her. She even shed tears as he boarded the plane to leave.

What would we men in this forum say to him then? At the very least we'd tell him to get back on the horse and find himself another woman. At worst...well, let's just say this imaginary woman would not fare well. In any case I can guarantee that not a single member of this forum would come riding to the woman's rescue.

Not judging, just throwing out a "ferinstance" for argument's sake.

Along the lines of standards....

Quantity or quality?

And would a change in your quality standard have effected your quantity standard? Here? Abroad? Compare and contrast, for the masses....

Er...Что?

[Brad and Vika 129]

Mox - Water is wet, don't you agree? Sheesh!

[mox 298]

Mox - Water is wet, don't you agree? Sheesh!

Best Bill Clinton impression: Well it depends on what the definition of "wet" is.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

:lol:

Mox - Water is wet, don't you agree? Sheesh!

Best Bill Clinton impression: Well it depends on what the definition of "wet" is.