Does not look good

[zauberblume 0]

Oh my goodness your already talking about divorcing her in three years what happen to marriage vows saying for better and worse in sickness and health until death do we part. If you want a prenupt sounds like your already thinking the marriage is going to fail. If you think that send her home but, if I was ever ask for a prenupt first I would feel like I am going into a business arrangement and second I would feel like the man I am about to marry does not trust me... I am the USC here and all I can say is everything I own belongs to my Jatin too we are making a commitment to be husband and wife not business partners... If you love this woman and trust her why would you need a prenupt? my fiance is leaving all behind for me does that not show love...

Good luck on whatever descion you make....

Sincerly a fiancee in waiting,

Christina

How sweet!!...How innocent!!. How out of touch with the real world and the way it is. Im sure that the 50% going thru divorce now and fighting for pots and pans thaught the same way at one time.

Sign a pre-nupt, and there would no need to fight as it is alrady decided wh gets the pots and pans.

Indeed. Sadly, I'd be willing to suggest that 99% of those that end up dissolving a marriage were all as amorous and trusting at the outset. I don't know what it is about the divorce, but even the amicable ones are rendered down to the nuts and bolts of who gets what. It's sad and perhaps it isn't so much about money and 'things' as it is about a way to demonstrate one's dispapointment that the emotional investment of one or both parties, presumably, has been all for naught. But in the end, it is all about the bits and pieces, and ironic as it may be, the prenup essentially sorts that out when emotions are not high and piqued, and feelings hurt. And a prenup prohibits the attorneys that handle the distribution from feasting on the aftermath of such raw emotions.

So the pre-nup, as you've outlined above, is about protection then?

[SirLancelot 1]

why is it so offensive that others want to trust in the success of their marriage?

You can trust all you want. No one is forcing you to have a pre-nup. The argument has been that the OP is being outragous for wanting one or requiring that his SO sign on. You don't have to accept it, but allow your SO to at least ask without being indignant and catagorically rejecting it immediately.

It seems to me that the discussion has evolved somewhat into prenups are necessary and anyone who questions that is naive vs. prenups are never necessary and anyone who questions that is a jaded jerk.

I think that it would be very difficult to be in a relationship where the two parties fall into separate camps. A problem with no solution really.

I have to say I agree with you 100%. This parpticular subject does seem to bring about very polar opposite camps. And it's very difficult--if not impossible--to have a compromise if the couple starts out having polar oppositive views on this subject.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Oh my goodness your already talking about divorcing her in three years what happen to marriage vows saying for better and worse in sickness and health until death do we part. If you want a prenupt sounds like your already thinking the marriage is going to fail. If you think that send her home but, if I was ever ask for a prenupt first I would feel like I am going into a business arrangement and second I would feel like the man I am about to marry does not trust me... I am the USC here and all I can say is everything I own belongs to my Jatin too we are making a commitment to be husband and wife not business partners... If you love this woman and trust her why would you need a prenupt? my fiance is leaving all behind for me does that not show love...

Good luck on whatever descion you make....

Sincerly a fiancee in waiting,

Christina

How sweet!!...How innocent!!. How out of touch with the real world and the way it is. Im sure that the 50% going thru divorce now and fighting for pots and pans thaught the same way at one time.

Sign a pre-nupt, and there would no need to fight as it is alrady decided wh gets the pots and pans.

Indeed. Sadly, I'd be willing to suggest that 99% of those that end up dissolving a marriage were all as amorous and trusting at the outset. I don't know what it is about the divorce, but even the amicable ones are rendered down to the nuts and bolts of who gets what. It's sad and perhaps it isn't so much about money and 'things' as it is about a way to demonstrate one's dispapointment that the emotional investment of one or both parties, presumably, has been all for naught. But in the end, it is all about the bits and pieces, and ironic as it may be, the prenup essentially sorts that out when emotions are not high and piqued, and feelings hurt. And a prenup prohibits the attorneys that handle the distribution from feasting on the aftermath of such raw emotions.

So the pre-nup, as you've outlined above, is about protection then?

I described the many facets of a prenup here,

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...st&p=520072

Look, I realise that this forum is oriented to people that are in the throes of immigrating to be with their new love or newly wedded spouse, but if it's hard to contemplate this reality in your current state of mind, reflect back on the last relationship you had, before this one, (If there was one) and how you are glad you are now with the one you love. Think of how it would have been had the two of you parted and just suppose, that it wasn't your choice. He or she made the end to the relationship. And let's suppose that at that time, you lost everything you'd worked to acquire. Yes, it's money, substance, worldly goods, but at the time you ended your relationship, for whatever reason, did you love himstill and still believe that 'love is forever'?

Edited October 23, 2006 by diadromous mermaid

[zauberblume 0]

Look, I realise that this forum is oriented to people that are in the throes of immigrating to be with their new love or newly wedded spouse, but if it's hard to contemplate this reality in your current state of mind, reflect back on the last relationship you had, before this one, (If there was one) and how you are glad you are now with the one you love. Think of how it would have been had the two of you parted and just suppose, that it wasn't your choice. He or she made the end to the relationship. And let's suppose that at that time, you lost everything you'd worked to acquire. Yes, it's money, substance, worldly goods, but at the time you ended your relationship, for whatever reason, did you love himstill and still believe that 'love is forever'?

Actually, it's not a hard reality to comtemplate. In fact, many of us youthful ones have contemplated it. As such, we chose to act differently in the best interest of our relationship.

There's no getting around it, Mermaid. We chose not to sign a pre-nuptial agreement for our own personal reasons. You could tell the saddest tale of a woman who lost of all her worldly goods in a divorce and it would not, in any way, change my perspective on pre-nuptial agreements.

What exactly are you trying to get at?

[SirLancelot 1]

All this talk of pre-nups reminds me of the movie Intolerable Cruelty.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0138524/

It's twisted humor--not your average happy ending love story from Hollywood--but it's pretty entertaining.

[rebeccajo 14]

There's no getting around it, Mermaid. We chose not to sign a pre-nuptial agreement for our own personal reasons. You could tell the saddest tale of a woman who lost of all her worldly goods in a divorce and it would not, in any way, change my perspective on pre-nuptial agreements.

I don't think mermaid is trying to win anything. She's just asking for you to think about something. Since you've stated your opinion won't change no matter what information you are given, then what are you trying to get at?

Some people are willing to take their chances. Is that naive? Maybe. But for everyone insisting that prenups are necessary albeit unromantic, why is it so offensive that others want to trust in the success of their marriage?

It's not that cut and dried for me. We never did a pre-nup. Even though I wish like hell I had with my first husband. So that must make me doubly stupid........lol

What I can't figure out is why all the chest-pounding about why pre-nups are so mistrustful and a bell-nelling of impending doom to a marriage.

It reminds me of something from Shakespeare....methinks thou doest protest too much. Like somebody has to shout it from the rooftops that their love is evermore.....

I personally just don't get it.

Edited October 23, 2006 by rebeccajo

[PlatyPius 5]

I wouldn't ask Sian to sign a prenup. I have exactly one "possession" that I couldn't bear to lose; my house. It isn't the money. My grandmother bought this house in the 50s. It has been passed on to me. I practically lived here when I was a kid. I've put countless hundreds of hours, and countless thousands of dollars into fixing it up so far, and I've barely scratched the surface.

In the end though, I just love this house. Every new bit of evidence I find about the previous owners or how the house looked in the early 1800s is a thrill.

Sian knows this. She understands. In no way can I imagine her ever trying to take the house away from me. Nor can I imagine it ever being an issue anyway, since neither of us believe in divorce. We've both waited over 30 years to get married, and our first marriage will be our last. Sian is worth me putting every bit of energy I have into our relationship, and that's what I intend to do.

No prenups for us, thanks.

However, I can see where others might want one. Someone with a lot of money, maybe. Or someone who has been married before and been through a nasty divorce.

[rebeccajo 14]

I wouldn't ask Sian to sign a prenup. I have exactly one "possession" that I couldn't bear to lose; my house.

She won't divorce you. She wouldn't want to fight over your balance at Home Depot.....

[PlatyPius 5]

I wouldn't ask Sian to sign a prenup. I have exactly one "possession" that I couldn't bear to lose; my house.

She won't divorce you. She wouldn't want to fight over your balance at Home Depot.....

LOL!

Nope, no balance at Home Depot, Lowes, or Menards. All done with cash and barter so far. Have never had a mortgage on the house either; and won't. That's why it's only as far as it is after 5 years. lol

[rebeccajo 14]

I wouldn't ask Sian to sign a prenup. I have exactly one "possession" that I couldn't bear to lose; my house.

She won't divorce you. She wouldn't want to fight over your balance at Home Depot.....

LOL!

Nope, no balance at Home Depot, Lowes, or Menards. All done with cash and barter so far. Have never had a mortgage on the house either; and won't. That's why it's only as far as it is after 5 years. lol

Really? Dang! I'm impressed...truly.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Look, I realise that this forum is oriented to people that are in the throes of immigrating to be with their new love or newly wedded spouse, but if it's hard to contemplate this reality in your current state of mind, reflect back on the last relationship you had, before this one, (If there was one) and how you are glad you are now with the one you love. Think of how it would have been had the two of you parted and just suppose, that it wasn't your choice. He or she made the end to the relationship. And let's suppose that at that time, you lost everything you'd worked to acquire. Yes, it's money, substance, worldly goods, but at the time you ended your relationship, for whatever reason, did you love himstill and still believe that 'love is forever'?

Actually, it's not a hard reality to comtemplate. In fact, many of us youthful ones have contemplated it. As such, we chose to act differently in the best interest of our relationship.

There's no getting around it, Mermaid. We chose not to sign a pre-nuptial agreement for our own personal reasons. You could tell the saddest tale of a woman who lost of all her worldly goods in a divorce and it would not, in any way, change my perspective on pre-nuptial agreements.

What exactly are you trying to get at?

Nowt.

[rebeccajo 14]

Nowt.

ROFLMAO!!!

Now that says it all, doesn't it.

[zauberblume 0]

There's no getting around it, Mermaid. We chose not to sign a pre-nuptial agreement for our own personal reasons. You could tell the saddest tale of a woman who lost of all her worldly goods in a divorce and it would not, in any way, change my perspective on pre-nuptial agreements.

I don't think mermaid is trying to win anything. She's just asking for you to think about something. Since you've stated your opinion won't change no matter what information you are given, then what are you trying to get at?

Rebeccajo,

She's assuming that what she proposes us to think about we haven't already thought about or considered. I've heard about all of the advantages of signing a pre-nup. I remember the analogies: "You wouldn't ride without wearing a seatbealt, would you?" "You need to protect your assets." "It's not the document of doom." Blah blah.

Why would my opinion change? I'm only talking about what I am doing in my relationship. What other people choose to do in theirs is fine.

What is kind of sad is that just because a couple chooses not to sign a pre-nup, then they're suddenly naive or unrealistic or in a stupor of "youthful innocence."

Maybe we just flat out didn't want to sign one. That's what I'm getting at.

--Z

Nowt.

Probably because you realize the futility in such a discussion.

However, if you could explain what you're getting at, it might prove useful to others who may be reading this thread.

Interesting to have this discussion about pre-nuptial agreements on an immigration forum. Affidavit of Support, anyone? (No, I'm not saying you can't have both a pre-nup and an Affidavit of Support.)

Edited October 23, 2006 by zauberblume

[aussiewench 9]

Fundamentally I tend to accept pre-nups so I don't see what timing has to do with it. Either one accepts the idea of true love and forgets about any financial security the spouse will offer, or one fully embraces the idea of true love and marries not caring about money/financial security at all. This may be from a man's prespective of course, but when a man sees a woman quickly agreeing to a pre-nup without hesitation, that overwhelmingly demonstrates to the man that she's truly and sincerely in love with him--not with his wealth or assets. The women on here may not see it this way, but I'm sure most of the men--if they are truly honest with themselves--will agree that not much else can demonstrate to them the woman's true love than easily agreeing to sign a pre-nup without hesitation. If I were to do a pre-nup, I may even tear up the pre-nup immediately once I've seen my SO's positive reaction without hesitation. (Obviously this is based on a man having significant wealth and assets to protect. If the man is a pauper, then he should consider himself lucky when a woman wants to marry him, as it would be for him only--not for money--that the woman is marrying him--out of love and nothing more.)

I will tell you the first thing that will enter a wealthy man's thoughts if the woman reacts strongly when suggested a pre-nup is that she's in it for the money. Why else would she even care otherwise? If the marriage lasts, then nothing from the pre-nup even matters. It's only if she's already thought of what may happen when there is a divorce that she'd react so negatively to a pre-nup. That is how the man will see it.

But I know that's not the prespective most women see it from. It's interesting how differently people see things. It also matters greatly if the individuals have lots of assets or none at all.

From a womans perspective (mine)

I had significant assets prior to my marriage to my second husband. Everyone told me to get a prenup. I refused because of my strong belief that asking for a prenup showed a lack of trust in the relationship. That it would by its very mention diminish the relationship and start it off on the wrong level. Some may think naive, I don't. I lived with him for three years also before marriage. The marriage itself only lasted a year and he ended up with way more then he was entitled to as I didn't even fight it through the courts. He had nothing when I first met him, now he has a kings ransom in comparison. Would I do same again if in same position.....you betcha. The relationship is far far more important to me than anything material. Thats just me and my 2 cents

Edited October 23, 2006 by aussiewench

[rebeccajo 14]

Z...

It's when you say somebody could tell you the saddest tale and it wouldn't change your opnion....guess that probably why diaddie waved the white flag.

All through this discussion the 'backstory' is about marriage fraud. Which is another 'hot potato' in this community.

The biggest case of marriage fraud I ever witnessed was between two USC's. The man was on the rebound and the woman was nearing the end of her alimony from husband #1. There were only about 100 people in town that opined to him that something looked fishy. He whispered 'pre-nup' in her ear and she came out a-wailing. Even sicced her preacher on him with how prenuptial agreements signal mistrust in the marriage.

About three years into the marriage, she filed for divorce about 10 minutes after he added her to the deed of the house he had owned for more than twenty years. His misplaced trust cost him about 70 grand -enough to get her debt-free into a home of her own with her children by her first husband. All in all a very well conceived plan on her part.

Like I said earlier, I've never entered into a pre-nup. But because of some of the stuff I've seen, I don't regard them as horrid. I think they should be discussed, calmly if possibly, and not used as a strong-arm tactic. And I don't believe that undying protestations of trust and love will protect a couple either. Life and other nasty stuff happens.

Edited October 23, 2006 by rebeccajo