Does not look good

[rebeccajo 14]

Good heavens Kirsten. Calm down. There's no animosity here. Or bitterness.

There's an old line of thinking that goes like this. When someone spends a lot of time over and over again trying to persuade people to a certain point of view, they may be trying to persuade themselves.

That's all.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Rebeccajo,

I think you toss around words pretty easily without knowing whereof you speak.

No. I just don't mince them.

I haven't had the experience of a fancy education. All my larnin' is at the school of hard knocks.

And religious perspectives shouldn't be used to back up a point, in my opinion. They are just that - perspectives. They don't make a person smarter or dumber.

I don't know why you are so touchy about what I have to say, honestly I don't.

Unless you are trying harder to convince yourself with your words than you are to convince me.

Sometimes, Rebeccajo, a little diplomacy goes a long way. With that, I retire. I do not apoloize for my education. I am grateful for it. And it unfortunately includes the school of hard knocks.

I hope someday you will lose the bitter edge bestowed upon you by your particular life education. Maybe that's what it will take for you to stop feeling threatened as you so clearly do. I hope you know that it was never my goal to make you feel threatened in any way...only to be heard and understood (whether you agree or disagree with my perspective).

I will never wish you ill, Rebeccajo. It is not in me. I only wish you did not feel such animosity toward me and what you wish to perceive me to be--however incredibly wrong you are.

My best to you.

Wow! But you are being exceptionally emphatic! I believe that in all fairness, there's a lot to be said for the experience one accrues in life ~ that comes with maturity. I mean years, not events...and that is what rebeccajo was speaking of. Yes, of course none of us knows what each other's individual experiences have been, but we can agree that "time" in and around marriage AND people (of various types) allows us to gain some valuable perspectives. That's the essence of what rebeccajo was saying.

I'll remind you that you stated;

I simply believe that marriage should be based on trust rather than legal agreements

we'd all like to think that, but in practicality, it doesn't always work out that way. It makes me wonder if that is your viewpoint, why marry at all? I mean isn't marriage itself a legal agreement?

However, in due respect to your youth (and I am taking the liberty of presuming that from your pic and the details in your profile that you're relatively young)... I remember the 'innocence' that youth brought..the sense of immortality, the sense that people lived as I do, and that "love" is forever. Ah, to be young again, eh?

[zauberblume 0]

I agree with Kirsten.

I'm young and I'm a newlywed. My husband's family has money and so does my family. Since my husband and I are just starting out, we have no financial interests to protect aside from what we stand to inherit. Furthermore, we chose not to sign a pre-nup because we felt that it went against our views of marriage. We don't have a sense of marriage as immortal love nor are we die-hard romantics. However, we've seen successful marriages around us and we believe that we'll be able to reproduce that same success. Therefore, a pre-nup, even if it is thought to be a harmless document, simply does not apply to us.

If he had asked me to sign one, I most certainly would not have precisely because it would've meant that his outlook on marriage had changed.

However, in due respect to your youth (and I am taking the liberty of presuming that from your pic and the details in your profile that you're relatively young)... I remember the 'innocence' that youth brought..the sense of immortality, the sense that people lived as I do, and that "love" is forever. Ah, to be young again, eh? wink.gif

That's kind of dismissive. Youth does not always bring innocence. You're assuming far too much. For some, youth can be an absolute curse.

[caagirl 0]

Oh my goodness your already talking about divorcing her in three years what happen to marriage vows saying for better and worse in sickness and health until death do we part. If you want a prenupt sounds like your already thinking the marriage is going to fail. If you think that send her home but, if I was ever ask for a prenupt first I would feel like I am going into a business arrangement and second I would feel like the man I am about to marry does not trust me... I am the USC here and all I can say is everything I own belongs to my Jatin too we are making a commitment to be husband and wife not business partners... If you love this woman and trust her why would you need a prenupt? my fiance is leaving all behind for me does that not show love...

Good luck on whatever descion you make....

Sincerly a fiancee in waiting,

Christina

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Oh my goodness your already talking about divorcing her in three years what happen to marriage vows saying for better and worse in sickness and health until death do we part. If you want a prenupt sounds like your already thinking the marriage is going to fail. If you think that send her home but, if I was ever ask for a prenupt first I would feel like I am going into a business arrangement and second I would feel like the man I am about to marry does not trust me... I am the USC here and all I can say is everything I own belongs to my Jatin too we are making a commitment to be husband and wife not business partners... If you love this woman and trust her why would you need a prenupt? my fiance is leaving all behind for me does that not show love...

Good luck on whatever descion you make....

Sincerly a fiancee in waiting,

Christina

I can well understand your points of view. But, I ask, if you solemly believe that if presented a prenup you

would feel like the man I am about to marry does not trust me

could you not also admit that not being willing to sign a prenup offered to you by the person you've selected very carefully to marry (based on all of his/her superb charcater traits) means that you, too, do not trust your fiancé?

After all, if someone you love; someone you cherish and have carefully and methodically become close to and learned all about presents something like a prenup to you, why all of a sudden do you now not trust him? Was everything that went into selecting that person now no longer pertain?

[SirLancelot 1]

would feel like the man I am about to marry does not trust me

could you not also admit that not being willing to sign a prenup offered to you by the person you've selected very carefully to marry (based on all of his/her superb charcater traits) means that you, too, do not trust your fiancé?

After all, if someone you love; someone you cherish and have carefully and methodically become close to and learned all about presents something like a prenup to you, why all of a sudden do you now not trust him? Was everything that went into selecting that person now no longer pertain?

EXACTLY. That's been my point all along. The women are only seeing it from their perspective, never the men's. From the man's perspective, why isn't she trusting of his judgement that a pre-nup is necessary because of his financial assets?

[zauberblume 0]

would feel like the man I am about to marry does not trust me

could you not also admit that not being willing to sign a prenup offered to you by the person you've selected very carefully to marry (based on all of his/her superb charcater traits) means that you, too, do not trust your fiancé?

After all, if someone you love; someone you cherish and have carefully and methodically become close to and learned all about presents something like a prenup to you, why all of a sudden do you now not trust him? Was everything that went into selecting that person now no longer pertain?

EXACTLY. That's been my point all along. The women are only seeing it from their perspective, never the men's. From the man's perspective, why isn't she trusting of his judgement that a pre-nup is necessary because of his financial assets?

Because not everything is about money.

After all, if someone you love; someone you cherish and have carefully and methodically become close to and learned all about presents something like a prenup to you, why all of a sudden do you now not trust him? Was everything that went into selecting that person now no longer pertain?

For me, yes, some sort of drastic transformation would have had to occur in my husband's mind for him to think that he needs to protect his assets from me.

[desert_fox 32]

Oh my goodness your already talking about divorcing her in three years what happen to marriage vows saying for better and worse in sickness and health until death do we part. If you want a prenupt sounds like your already thinking the marriage is going to fail. If you think that send her home but, if I was ever ask for a prenupt first I would feel like I am going into a business arrangement and second I would feel like the man I am about to marry does not trust me... I am the USC here and all I can say is everything I own belongs to my Jatin too we are making a commitment to be husband and wife not business partners... If you love this woman and trust her why would you need a prenupt? my fiance is leaving all behind for me does that not show love...

Good luck on whatever descion you make....

Sincerly a fiancee in waiting,

Christina

How sweet!!...How innocent!!. How out of touch with the real world and the way it is. Im sure that the 50% going thru divorce now and fighting for pots and pans thaught the same way at one time.

Sign a pre-nupt, and there would no need to fight as it is alrady decided wh gets the pots and pans.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

For me, yes, some sort of drastic transformation would have had to occur in my husband's mind for him to think that he needs to protect his assets from me.

But it's not necesarily YOU he's protecting them from! Haven't you read all that a prenup instrument can do?

[Jenn! 918]

Some people are willing to take their chances. Is that naive? Maybe. But for everyone insisting that prenups are necessary albeit unromantic, why is it so offensive that others want to trust in the success of their marriage?

[zauberblume 0]

For me, yes, some sort of drastic transformation would have had to occur in my husband's mind for him to think that he needs to protect his assets from me.

But it's not necesarily YOU he's protecting them from! Haven't you read all that a prenup instrument can do?

Yes, but that can also be done in the event of a divorce.

[SirLancelot 1]

Because not everything is about money.

That's real cute zauberblume. You argue on the one hand that youth doesn't always bring innocense, then you turn around and immediately make a comment like that.

Every single thing you do--even the clean air you're breathing in right now and the electricity used to power your computer/internet connection requires money. It's one thing to say love is important--and I would agree--but it's completely naive to say not everything is about money. As a person whose major in college was Economics, I can say, without a doubt, that 100% of everything on this physical planet is about money. No matter how much you try to deny that, you cannot do a thing without money. You can't even registered to get married at your local county registrars office without money.

I say HOGWASH to your above declaration.

why is it so offensive that others want to trust in the success of their marriage?

You can trust all you want. No one is forcing you to have a pre-nup. The argument has been that the OP is being outragous for wanting one or requiring that his SO sign on. You don't have to accept it, but allow your SO to at least ask without being indignant and catagorically rejecting it immediately.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Oh my goodness your already talking about divorcing her in three years what happen to marriage vows saying for better and worse in sickness and health until death do we part. If you want a prenupt sounds like your already thinking the marriage is going to fail. If you think that send her home but, if I was ever ask for a prenupt first I would feel like I am going into a business arrangement and second I would feel like the man I am about to marry does not trust me... I am the USC here and all I can say is everything I own belongs to my Jatin too we are making a commitment to be husband and wife not business partners... If you love this woman and trust her why would you need a prenupt? my fiance is leaving all behind for me does that not show love...

Good luck on whatever descion you make....

Sincerly a fiancee in waiting,

Christina

How sweet!!...How innocent!!. How out of touch with the real world and the way it is. Im sure that the 50% going thru divorce now and fighting for pots and pans thaught the same way at one time.

Sign a pre-nupt, and there would no need to fight as it is alrady decided wh gets the pots and pans.

Indeed. Sadly, I'd be willing to suggest that 99% of those that end up dissolving a marriage were all as amorous and trusting at the outset. I don't know what it is about the divorce, but even the amicable ones are rendered down to the nuts and bolts of who gets what. It's sad and perhaps it isn't so much about money and 'things' as it is about a way to demonstrate one's dispapointment that the emotional investment of one or both parties, presumably, has been all for naught. But in the end, it is all about the bits and pieces, and ironic as it may be, the prenup essentially sorts that out when emotions are not high and piqued, and feelings hurt. And a prenup prohibits the attorneys that handle the distribution from feasting on the aftermath of such raw emotions.

[zauberblume 0]

Because not everything is about money.

That's real cute zauberblume. You argue on the one hand that youth doesn't always bring innocense, then you turn around and immediately make a comment like that.

Every single thing you do--even the clean air you're breathing in right now and the electricity used to power your computer/internet connection requires money. It's one thing to say love is important--and I would agree--but it's completely naive to say not everything is about money. As a person whose major in college was Economics, I can say, without a doubt, that 100% of everything on this physical planet is about money. No matter how much you try to deny that, you cannot do a thing without money. You can't even registered to get married at your local county registrars office without money.

I say HOGWASH to your above declaration.

SirLance,

No need to be condescending. In my eyes and in the way that I live my life, not everything in this world is about money.

I'm sorry to hear that your world is like that.

--Z

[Jenn! 918]

why is it so offensive that others want to trust in the success of their marriage?

You can trust all you want. No one is forcing you to have a pre-nup. The argument has been that the OP is being outragous for wanting one or requiring that his SO sign on. You don't have to accept it, but allow your SO to at least ask without being indignant and catagorically rejecting it immediately.

It seems to me that the discussion has evolved somewhat into prenups are necessary and anyone who questions that is naive vs. prenups are never necessary and anyone who questions that is a jaded jerk.

I think that it would be very difficult to be in a relationship where the two parties fall into separate camps. A problem with no solution really.