Does not look good

[sugarshak 0]

I have no problems with prenups..... but it is something the couple should discuss in full before any commitments are made....

It is not something that should be just sprung on someone after they have made the move and committed themselves to marriage...

I belive the OP will have made a declaration of intent to marry when he filed for the K1 he is now in breach of that and I would advise her to seak legal advice as to what her rights are....

Kezzie

You go Kezzie! I'm with you 100%!!

[xjennyinstereox 0]

Ok, honestly, anyone who has property or their own business should sign a prenup REGARDLESS of how in love or trusting they are and what have you. It's there to protect BOTH people, so I'm sure the OP had her best interest in mind as well. It shouldn't be so offensive and insulting. You can never truly know if someone will end up screwing you over down the line. I know of someone who is now losing everything because he trusted her and of course, why shouldn't he have, right? You want to trust the person you're marrying with your LIFE... and everything that your LIFE includes.. who doesn't??? But sometimes, things just don't happen the way you want them to. What's the problem with signing a prenup even if it was a surprise??? If you feel deeply in your heart that your relationship will last and you'll live happily forever after, then who cares! You've got nothing to worry about, right?

I like to think of it in terms of tv court dramas... you know, they always tell suspects that if they're innocent, then there's nothing to worry about. If you're sure, then just sign the damn thing and forget it. If something DOES go wrong, you're protected. Right???

Thanks for showing some logic and common sense,

Twostar55

Woah woah woah Twostar... logic and common sense maybe, but you described the EXACT reason why I think that in some cases, a prenup is a good idea.. I said "You can never truly know if someone will end up screwing you over down the line."

Look what you did.. you're screwing her over and you haven't even married her yet. It makes me sick to my stomach to see this happening. Don't be all buddy buddy with me. Wanting her out of your house and kicking her daughter out too is disgusting. When I wrote my first reply, I had not read all of the other replies first. I didn't know beforehand that you wanted her OUT.

Edited October 19, 2006 by xjennyinstereox

[tom&tata 2]

Do I want to marry this woman?

Has anyone else been in this situation? Thanks.

On the 1st question, only you can decide on the 1st question.

On the 2nd question, no, we have never been in that situation. I knew that he would not put me/ourselves in that exact situation.

[Caladan 19]

Point #1: Pre-nups can be a good idea if one or both parties have significant assets to protect. They're usually negotiated between both parties, not given by fiat by one partner to another.

Point #2: They're not really all that common, and many people, even people who have been together a very long time in the U.S. where people know about them find them cold, unromantic, and 'planning for failure.'

Point #3: Because of point #2, springing a pre-nup on someone shortly before the wedding is really bad form. It's a delicately broached issue even when both families are moneyed WASPs.

Point #4: Springing a pre-nup on someone shortly before the wedding while holding their legal status in the country over their head, and upon her being shocked first thinking not, 'gee, how can we make this work, I should address her concerns and get her a lawyer who can explain it to her' but 'do I want to marry someone who is uncomfortable with me being more interested in protecting my money than working out a relationship issue' puts you solidly past bad form into weird icky territory. This is a relationship. They don't come with receipts where you get to send the other person away if they don't adhere to your changed terms.

[garya505 2]

If she doesn't read it, and signs it, without having her own independent counsel represent HER best interests, it won't be worth the paper it's written on.

So all I have to do the next time I don't want to be bound by an agreement I signed, I just have to say I signed it without reading it and my obligation is removed????? I think you are wrong.

Pre-nups are sometimes invalidated by the court if the parties did not read and understand what they signed.

How do they determine they didn't really read and understand it? Anyone could make that claim. I've never heard of that as a valid arguement for dismissing a contract. Quite the opposite--I see people held accountable for what they've signed regardless of whether they read or understood it.

Not always true for pre-nups.

[alix 20]

My husband and I didn't do a pre-nup (we always joke about it!!), but I wouldn't have opposed to it. I just think that this should be something that needs to be discussed beforehand. I'd freak out if he just showed up with a document in his hands for me to sign before talking to me about it. Even if it was on my best interest.

The fact that you didn't talk to her about it in advance is not aceptable. How can you expect someone to trust you after this? Of course she is hurt. She thinks you did not trust her to discuss that before you decided to do it. You pretty much shoved it down her throat! You should have talked to her before she left her country.

Now, if even after you talk about everything she still doesn't want to sign it and it's really important to you, then I'd reconsider marrying her. But throwing her and her daughter out is a sign of total lack of respect, love and compassion from your part. You were going to marry this woman, for crying out loud!! How can that all go away because of a piece of paper? It sounds really weird to me...

Alix

[Fandango 1,440]

#1 - if OP is asking whether he should marry this woman, my answer would be NO....cos she deserves a better man than him.

If she doesn't read it, and signs it, without having her own independent counsel represent HER best interests, it won't be worth the paper it's written on.

So all I have to do the next time I don't want to be bound by an agreement I signed, I just have to say I signed it without reading it and my obligation is removed????? I think you are wrong.

You are very correct there, not reading something and signing makes no difference, if you sign something you agree to what on the contract.

This is what hangs a lot of people in the computer world, it is what is called an end user license agreement, when you install a program and click yes to the lengthy agreement at the beginning of the install, you just signed that contract, and it holds up in court. Like if you install the program on many computers when you only have one copy of the program and it states in the electronic contract can only be used on 1 computer, people get taken to court and loose every day, the argument "I did not read that EULA" dose not fly.

I have heard there is legal precedence in some states of invalidating a pre-nup if the person signed a document that was not written there native language and that person was not adequately represented. Can't say this for sure but it is what I have heard

#2 - I am not aware of 'I didn't read it' as a defense for invalidating the pre-nupt. I do agree if there's a language barrier, maybe....however...OP has waited til she left everything...left her with not much of a choice, therefore she could theoretically claim she signed it under duress & protest.

[twostar55 0]

#1 - if OP is asking whether he should marry this woman, my answer would be NO....cos she deserves a better man than him.

If she doesn't read it, and signs it, without having her own independent counsel represent HER best interests, it won't be worth the paper it's written on.

So all I have to do the next time I don't want to be bound by an agreement I signed, I just have to say I signed it without reading it and my obligation is removed????? I think you are wrong.

You are very correct there, not reading something and signing makes no difference, if you sign something you agree to what on the contract.

This is what hangs a lot of people in the computer world, it is what is called an end user license agreement, when you install a program and click yes to the lengthy agreement at the beginning of the install, you just signed that contract, and it holds up in court. Like if you install the program on many computers when you only have one copy of the program and it states in the electronic contract can only be used on 1 computer, people get taken to court and loose every day, the argument "I did not read that EULA" dose not fly.

I have heard there is legal precedence in some states of invalidating a pre-nup if the person signed a document that was not written there native language and that person was not adequately represented. Can't say this for sure but it is what I have heard

#2 - I am not aware of 'I didn't read it' as a defense for invalidating the pre-nupt. I do agree if there's a language barrier, maybe....however...OP has waited til she left everything...left her with not much of a choice, therefore she could theoretically claim she signed it under duress & protest.

I think that I have some ommited some things that may have led to a mis-understanding. In good faith, I brought my fiancee over here and I have supported her fully.

A couple of weeks after we arrive I find out she is opening my mail, and also my e-mail. I do not think that this is right-----------even when you are married. I simply think that mail addressed to you is your private business....and, by the way, I have nothing to hide--------it was the principle of the thing that I did not like--this cause me to have secound thoughts about the whole thing.

I always thought that the VisaJourney website was a fair forum for helping each other. I have never called anyone names or made bad comments to anyone. I was simply asking for a little advice.

Most responses, unfortunately, were way out of line and way too judgemental.

[Randy 0]

A pre-nuptial can be invalidated if the construct of the contract violates provisions in state statute.

But, that has nothing to do with reading it before signing. Many contracts are invalidated because they violate statutes.

Right on John_and_marlene. I am in a community property state. I had a friend that had his prenupt thrown out because, according to the judge -- state law says half belongs to her. What made you think you could exempt yourself from state law simply by writing on a piece of paper 'I am exempt and don't want to be covered by this law'. Not an exact quote but that was the essence of it. I know each state has its own laws, and each case its own merits. Just food for thought. Statutes are statutes and they apply to all of us whether we want to exempt ourselves or not.

[Kanyiri 0]

My finacee and her 11 year old daughter and I arrived here in the U.S. last August 2nd.

The daughter enrolled in school and is doing OK.

I have a on-going 24 year -old business that I have been very successful at. I also own several income-producing real estate properties.

About a month ago, on the advice of my attorney and CPA, I discussed with my finacee about preparing a pre-nupt agreement.

She really suprised me---she became very offfended that I would suggest such a thing. I attempted to explain to her that it would be in BOTH of our interests. She is a university graduate and skilled in the business world, so maybe I mis-calculated her desires, character, or whatever.

Now, I am having very serious doubts about the marriage. Her time in the U.S. is runnning out.

You might be ready to tell me--"why didn't you two talk about this a long time ago?" Well, to me, it makes a heck of a lot of sense to have a prenupt in this day and age in America--especially when both parties have financial interestes (she owns two apartments in her home country) and 1 out of 2 marriages end in divorce within three years in this country.

I tried to explain the benefits of the agreement not only for me, but for HER, also. She told me she would absolutely not read it, but would sign it, and she was very upset about the whole thing.

Her reaction seems so childish to me. Do I want to marry this woman?

Has anyone else been in this situation? Thanks.

I am an American, well-educated, well-paid female. I would never sign a prenup. Especially not one sprung on me at the last minute. To me a prenup like that means that the man is just "trying me on for size." If I don't satisfy him, I'm booted out the door so he can find the next girl. It would be an insult. It means that the man is more focused on his financial assets than his love for me and my daughter. When you marry your first focus should be on the family, and not the individual. A prenup signals little confidence in the relationship. I would be devastated.

I understand the need for a prenup for some people who have a great deal of assets and a small amount of trust.

A marriage is not a business deal in which monetary concerns - both profit and loss - are the first priority.

Unfortunately, in your situation I believe your trust for this woman has already been lost, and I'm not sure how long a marriage would last with or without a prenup. Good luck for whatever you decide.

My prayers are for the 11 year old girl who has yet to see her mother in a lasting, loving relationship with a man. It takes a little girl a long time to learn to trust after that.

[shirleyjeremy 0]

If you do not plan on being together forever don't get married because when you say "hey just incase your not the person i think you are, I do not want you to get any of my stuff" is just a start down the path of divorce. If your spouse is worth dedicating your life to they should be good enough to take the chance of losing 1/2.

[Welshcookie 17]

I think that I have some ommited some things that may have led to a mis-understanding. In good faith, I brought my fiancee over here and I have supported her fully.

A couple of weeks after we arrive I find out she is opening my mail, and also my e-mail. I do not think that this is right-----------even when you are married. I simply think that mail addressed to you is your private business....and, by the way, I have nothing to hide--------it was the principle of the thing that I did not like--this

With respect....aren't these kind of issues something you find out about each other and talk through? there are boundaries to be set in any relationship....I mean when my husband first walked in on me when I was sitting on the loo I freaked out, but in his other relationships it was never an issue.....

I don't know how much time you have spent together before she arrived in the US, but you never really know a person 'til you live with them.....and truly, you should have brought up the Pre-nup way before she arrived on your door step....

[lisakenn 1]

My finacee and her 11 year old daughter and I arrived here in the U.S. last August 2nd.

The daughter enrolled in school and is doing OK.

I have a on-going 24 year -old business that I have been very successful at. I also own several income-producing real estate properties.

About a month ago, on the advice of my attorney and CPA, I discussed with my finacee about preparing a pre-nupt agreement.

She really suprised me---she became very offfended that I would suggest such a thing. I attempted to explain to her that it would be in BOTH of our interests. She is a university graduate and skilled in the business world, so maybe I mis-calculated her desires, character, or whatever.

Now, I am having very serious doubts about the marriage. Her time in the U.S. is runnning out.

You might be ready to tell me--"why didn't you two talk about this a long time ago?" Well, to me, it makes a heck of a lot of sense to have a prenupt in this day and age in America--especially when both parties have financial interestes (she owns two apartments in her home country) and 1 out of 2 marriages end in divorce within three years in this country.

I tried to explain the benefits of the agreement not only for me, but for HER, also. She told me she would absolutely not read it, but would sign it, and she was very upset about the whole thing.

Her reaction seems so childish to me. Do I want to marry this woman?

Has anyone else been in this situation? Thanks.

I probably will get downed by many for this remark, but I have to agree with you on this one. The problem is in HOW you went about it. To many, especially women, asking such a thing is usally seen as a sign that you don't trust her....and that, for women is an emotional minefield...

Now, before you jump off the deep end and say "that's it! the wedding is off....you need to sit down together and really discuss your reasons for the request and her reasons for her reaction.......She needs to know that this is not an issue about not believing that the marriage can succeed, or that you don't want to share your life with her.......

I do understand that when you have established yourself, the financial picture and considerations can be quite different than when you start out together with nothing or almost nothing....When I was younger I too would have been offended by such a request, and would have said "if he loves me then why would he ask"....however, after being married (one I thought would never end) and divorced after 15 years, I can certainly see where such financial protection is important...especially for women...I have also seen too many women and men who get divorced and are financially ruined because neither has any protection financially in place......

We all want to go into marriage thinking it will never end and the fairy tale will go on forever...and I bet that if a woman was requesting the same of a fiance to protect HER financial stability should the marriage fail, that the response would be in support of the female.

Certainly, no one wants to think about the cold hard facts, but, they do exist....Love is great, and marriage is great...but things happen........Pre nuptual agreements are not romantic, nor do they claim to be...but just like wills, they protect the parties involved......Having one does not jinx a marriage, or make a statement about a couple's love for one another either...they protect the financial interests of the couple involved SHOULD at the very worst case scenario, the marriage fail....

I came to the United States almost a year ago and got married for the second time...I asked my husband before we married if he wanted a pre nuptual agreement...not so much for me, but for him...He has the most accumulated financially....He is the United States citizen, not me.....He did, for the record, say no, but I would have loved him no less if he said yes.....Perhaps I'm just different than most...

Whatever you do, try to understand why your fiance was so upset with your request....If you both truly love and respect each other, you'll find a way to work it out......I wish you much luck and hope things work out ok for your new family...

[mybackpages 0]

If you really think this agreement is also in HER best interest, then hire a lawyer for her and gie her the chance to negotiate. Bad form really springing it on her.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I have no problems with prenups..... but it is something the couple should discuss in full before any commitments are made....

It is not something that should be just sprung on someone after they have made the move and committed themselves to marriage...

I belive the OP will have made a declaration of intent to marry when he filed for the K1 he is now in breach of that and I would advise her to seak legal advice as to what her rights are....

Kezzie

I'm not sure I am following all of the logic on this thread. While I recognise that some people have an objection that something appears to be 'sprung' on another (in other words untimely, as if 2 weeks earlier might have made a difference) I'm confused. How does timing affect this at all?

If the fiancée is marrying for all of the right reasons, that is, love and affection, then what difference would it make when the OP recommended the pre-nup, and at any time? It's not just about the OP wanting to place a pre-nup into effect, it's also about what values his fiancé places on the relationship. If untimely recommendation is at the root of this discussion, and it's improper to allow a woman to uproot and leave family, friends, job etc 'only to find an obstacle' placed before her and the alter, suggests to me that the values were possibly compromised. Can you really tell me that someone would alter his/her plans to marry over a pre-nup? Then what does that say about the love?