I-864 nightmare!

[sherywhite 0]

Dear visa journey members this is my first post here and I hope I'm in the right place. I'm so confused and frustrated over this whole complex matter. I'm the wife of a US citizen and we're going through the process of getting ready for the NVC documents.

Now about the AOS. The situation is my husband is living with me in Egypt till December and we're really hoping we can travel together before then! he's been earning money here in Egypt but we understand that this money does not count as it's earned abroad so his income will be zero. His mother agreed to be be co.sponsor. However, just yesterday we found out that most of her income comes from social security benefits. She's a widow and living alone. She makes very little money by working as a substitute teacher. Her income from both if added together would barely meet the requirement, but on her tax forms they appear separately. her total income is something like 5,000$ while ss is non taxable. It is money though she earns every month, but alone without the money from sub.teaching it does not meet the requirement!

my question is can she use ss benefits as income even though it's not taxable? and if so, should we add both incomes and write down the total in the annual earned income part? we're so confused and frustrated. Also, she owns a big house so should we go ahead and add that in the asset part?

[Dave&Roza 748]

Dear visa journey members this is my first post here and I hope I'm in the right place. I'm so confused and frustrated over this whole complex matter. I'm the wife of a US citizen and we're going through the process of getting ready for the NVC documents.

Now about the AOS. The situation is my husband is living with me in Egypt till December and we're really hoping we can travel together before then! he's been earning money here in Egypt but we understand that this money does not count as it's earned abroad so his income will be zero. His mother agreed to be be co.sponsor. However, just yesterday we found out that most of her income comes from social security benefits. She's a widow and living alone. She makes very little money by working as a substitute teacher. Her income from both if added together would barely meet the requirement, but on her tax forms they appear separately. her total income is something like 5,000$ while ss is non taxable. It is money though she earns every month, but alone without the money from sub.teaching it does not meet the requirement!

my question is can she use ss benefits as income even though it's not taxable? and if so, should we add both incomes and write down the total in the annual earned income part? we're so confused and frustrated. Also, she owns a big house so should we go ahead and add that in the asset part?

Add her SS as it is income and should she make over a certain amount it does become taxable. You can add the house as an assets especially if it is 5X the income requirement, but you will have to pay for an appraisal to include it. If your husband can save the money he is currently making, he could use any amount in saving and he would only need 3X the income requirement.

Good luck,

Dave

[aaron2020 11,651]

Add her SS as it is income and should she make over a certain amount it does become taxable. You can add the house as an assets especially if it is 5X the income requirement, but you will have to pay for an appraisal to include it. If your husband can save the money he is currently making, he could use any amount in saving and he would only need 3X the income requirement.

Good luck,

Dave

She can't count her house as an asset. It cannot be sold without creating a hardship, so it can't be counted for the I-864.

[sherywhite 0]

She can't count her house as an asset. It cannot be sold without creating a hardship, so it can't be counted for the I-864.

you mean houses are generally not accepted as assets? that's really bad. We were planning on getting an appraisal and we have high hopes it's worth a lot! it's also owned by husband's mother no mortgage or anything!

[Anh map 2,098]

Dear visa journey members this is my first post here and I hope I'm in the right place. I'm so confused and frustrated over this whole complex matter. I'm the wife of a US citizen and we're going through the process of getting ready for the NVC documents.

Now about the AOS. The situation is my husband is living with me in Egypt till December and we're really hoping we can travel together before then! he's been earning money here in Egypt but we understand that this money does not count as it's earned abroad so his income will be zero. His mother agreed to be be co.sponsor. However, just yesterday we found out that most of her income comes from social security benefits. She's a widow and living alone. She makes very little money by working as a substitute teacher. Her income from both if added together would barely meet the requirement, but on her tax forms they appear separately. her total income is something like 5,000$ while ss is non taxable. It is money though she earns every month, but alone without the money from sub.teaching it does not meet the requirement!

my question is can she use ss benefits as income even though it's not taxable? and if so, should we add both incomes and write down the total in the annual earned income part? we're so confused and frustrated. Also, she owns a big house so should we go ahead and add that in the asset part?

The US taxes on worldwide income, so money earned in Egypt is the same as money earned in New York City. If he's earned enough to file a tax return, he needs to do so. See page 8 of the I-864 instructions.

Income earned outside the US that will not continue inside the US cannot be used to satisfy the affidavit of support.

The Social Security benefits can be used as income along with the income from teaching.

Even with the house owned free and clear, it would be a hardship if it was required to be sold. The house being the only significant asset with the mother earning a modest retirement income, obtaining a loan on the house may also be seen as too much of a burden. If possible, another joint sponsor would be a better solution.

[sherywhite 0]

Add her SS as it is income and should she make over a certain amount it does become taxable. You can add the house as an assets especially if it is 5X the income requirement, but you will have to pay for an appraisal to include it. If your husband can save the money he is currently making, he could use any amount in saving and he would only need 3X the income requirement.

Good luck,

Dave

thanks Dave, her ss is actually below the taxable amount. My husband's savings actually don't also mount to the requirement since we have a baby so our household is three

[pushbrk 12,883]

The US taxes on worldwide income, so money earned in Egypt is the same as money earned in New York City. If he's earned enough to file a tax return, he needs to do so. See page 8 of the I-864 instructions.

Income earned outside the US that will not continue inside the US cannot be used to satisfy the affidavit of support.

The Social Security benefits can be used as income along with the income from teaching.

Even with the house owned free and clear, it would be a hardship if it was required to be sold. The house being the only significant asset with the mother earning a modest retirement income, obtaining a loan on the house may also be seen as too much of a burden. If possible, another joint sponsor would be a better solution.

I agree that if possible, finding another more qualified joint sponsor is a better solution. The above is all correct. She can go ahead and have the house appraised and state it's value, then document that it is owned free and clear but the Consulate is not likely to give the asset much consideration.

Take her income from line 22 plus the total Social Security income and state that as her current income. Then document the SS with the official declaration letter and her other income with a pay stub. If the income is sufficient, you're probably OK, provided your husband is educated and employable upon his return to the USA.

He should check with a tax professional regarding whether he was required to file a US tax return. He probably was/is if he's working abroad but it is unlikely he would owe any US taxes.

To clarify, Social Security income is income because it is income, not because it COULD be taxed under some circumstances. It is not "earned income" but it doesn't matter whether income is "earned" or "unearned". Income is income.

[sherywhite 0]

I agree that if possible, finding another more qualified joint sponsor is a better solution. The above is all correct. She can go ahead and have the house appraised and state it's value, then document that it is owned free and clear but the Consulate is not likely to give the asset much consideration.

Take her income from line 22 plus the total Social Security income and state that as her current income. Then document the SS with the official declaration letter and her other income with a pay stub. If the income is sufficient, you're probably OK, provided your husband is educated and employable upon his return to the USA.

He should check with a tax professional regarding whether he was required to file a US tax return. He probably was/is if he's working abroad but it is unlikely he would owe any US taxes.

To clarify, Social Security income is income because it is income, not because it COULD be taxed under some circumstances. It is not "earned income" but it doesn't matter whether income is "earned" or "unearned". Income is income.

Thank you so much for the replies, really help ! My husband did actually file taxes for 2011 and reported his foreign income, but yes I meant he can't use that as current income as he won't keep getting it. He actually stopped working in Egypt but he has secured a part time lecturer position at a university starting January 2013 although this alone won't meet the income requirement it is a start. We just requested a letter from the university that would verify this.

Now concerning my mother in law. In addition to the house, she also owns some stocks and mutual funds that my husband think value at least $100,000 . I didn't mention this before because she was uncomfortable with the idea of submitting statements with personal account information to strangers. Do you think that if we convince her to include these assets as well that our case would be more likely to hold without getting another joint sponsor? Thank you once again for all of your help!

[Anh map 2,098]

Yes, the investments are more likely to be accepted than a principle residence. That makes her financial picture look more secure than just a home and a modest retirement benefit.

[sherywhite 0]

Yes, the investments are more likely to be accepted than a principle residence. That makes her financial picture look more secure than just a home and a modest retirement benefit.

thanks a lot! just to make sure my husband and I don't get it wrong. We have a baby who is of course a US citizen by birth, but that makes our household three people and only one immigrant, me. His mother is a widow who lives alone. We are planning to live with her only for a few weeks when we go to the US until we can get an apartment of our own. She won't give us money or anything, but we're just staying in her house for a short time. Now does that make her household 4 people or just her and I? it's important as it makes all the difference in the financial requirement

thanks!

[pushbrk 12,883]

Thank you so much for the replies, really help ! My husband did actually file taxes for 2011 and reported his foreign income, but yes I meant he can't use that as current income as he won't keep getting it. He actually stopped working in Egypt but he has secured a part time lecturer position at a university starting January 2013 although this alone won't meet the income requirement it is a start. We just requested a letter from the university that would verify this.

Now concerning my mother in law. In addition to the house, she also owns some stocks and mutual funds that my husband think value at least $100,000 . I didn't mention this before because she was uncomfortable with the idea of submitting statements with personal account information to strangers. Do you think that if we convince her to include these assets as well that our case would be more likely to hold without getting another joint sponsor? Thank you once again for all of your help!

Yes, the stocks and mutual funds would be considered far more positively than her primary residence. Your husband's education and employability would be considered as well. This is important in the subjective decision making once the objective minimum criteria are met.

[JoannaV 174]

thanks a lot! just to make sure my husband and I don't get it wrong. We have a baby who is of course a US citizen by birth, but that makes our household three people and only one immigrant, me. His mother is a widow who lives alone. We are planning to live with her only for a few weeks when we go to the US until we can get an apartment of our own. She won't give us money or anything, but we're just staying in her house for a short time. Now does that make her household 4 people or just her and I? it's important as it makes all the difference in the financial requirement

thanks!

Just 2, her and you.

[Dave&Roza 748]

you mean houses are generally not accepted as assets? that's really bad. We were planning on getting an appraisal and we have high hopes it's worth a lot! it's also owned by husband's mother no mortgage or anything!

Primary residences are not considered as it would cause a hardship. Same for the primary or only car. I forgot about the hardship issue when I replied before. Ther rules are any assest can be used if 1) it can be readily converted to cash, 2) does not cause a hardship to do so, 3) only the fair market value maybe used (appraised value minus any loan).

Dave

[sherywhite 0]

Thank you so much again for all of your help! We just spoke to my mother in law again and it turns out that she is now willing to provide her investments as an asset. It also turns out that they are worth even more than double that what we anticipated.

With these assets in the picture, do you think it's still worth paying to have an appraisal done for her house?

Concerning the stocks and mutual fund again. Is a print out of an online statement from the brokerage firm that shows her name and the balance of her account enough or does she need something more official from them?

Thank you once again!

[pushbrk 12,883]

Thank you so much again for all of your help! We just spoke to my mother in law again and it turns out that she is now willing to provide her investments as an asset. It also turns out that they are worth even more than double that what we anticipated.

With these assets in the picture, do you think it's still worth paying to have an appraisal done for her house?

Concerning the stocks and mutual fund again. Is a print out of an online statement from the brokerage firm that shows her name and the balance of her account enough or does she need something more official from them?

Thank you once again!

I wouldn't bother with the home appraisal but you can still state the asset. Yes, a current statement from the brokerage firm is sufficient to document a brokerage account.