Advice for bringing sons to visit?

[SerenityNOW 11]

My husband just became a US Citizen two months ago, and already I have to revisit immigration issues... or *non*-immigration issues in this case! My husband has two sons living in Bulgaria. The older one is 21 and entering his 4th year of a 6-year combined university/medical school program. The younger one is 15 and will be entering high school.

We can't take the time to go to Bulgaria this year, so we would like for them to be able to visit us.

The applications are in, the interview is scheduled and we are sending them an invitation letter for them to bring to the interview (which I think is probably useless but maybe it looks odd not to include it?) and a few photos of all of us together from my four trips there.

Also, from reading the forums, I will have the older son print out his school transcripts. There is NO WAY he would ever leave medical school, which is almost for free there, to come to the US.

I don't know what else to tell them to bring, beyond their mother being with them to vouch for the fact that they have no intention to stay in the US. The younger son doesn't really have anything to show, as I don't think registration for his high school has even occurred yet.

So I guess I am wondering if there is anything else that would help strengthen their case that we don't want them to immigrate? Photos of our tiny house maybe? (Too small to move two strapping young men into for sure)

I have already read all the doom n' gloom scenarios and I know what we are up against... though the embassy in Sofia just released statistics that the denial rate is 11-14%. I thought it was the reverse - like that was the approval rate! We sure saw a lot of people crying over denials at the embassy when we went for our CR-1 interview.... UGH.

Thanks if anyone can think of anything else I should send to them or tell them to bring. I kinda think it's a lost cause and the COs make up their minds before the interview, but I've got to try...

[canadian_wife 1,822]

A picture of your house is useless

Who do the children live with? What about a letter from them stating when their expected return date is?

What about contacting one of their teachers or principals at their school to see if they'll write a letter outlining when school starts and when they are expected to return.

Good luck

[SerenityNOW 11]

Wow - I wrote out a reply to this back when I originally posted... looks like it never posted...

ANYWAY, even though I didn't receive much advice, I am back with an update. [bTW - thanks for the info, CanadianWife. We did include transcripts from the older son's medical school program and the younger son's registration from high school... I was joking about the photo of our house!] I sent also sent an invitation letter. None of this was even glanced at, not surprisingly.

DENIED. Not enough ties to Bulgaria and of course the questions they were asked had nothing to do with their ties to Bulgaria. Not entirely shocking, but sucks nonetheless. I had to wait until 4 am to call the embassy to talk with a CO. He was Bulgarian, so definitely not one of the people who conduct the interview (at least all I have ever seen in the embassy were Americans conducting the interviews). Nice enough guy, but he informed me that NOTHING can EVER be changed by phone. I don't know if this is true, maybe it is, but I know of at least two cases (same embassy) where the decision was reversed by phone... this was a while ago and some procedures changed in 2007 so I don't have evidence either way on the truth of his statement but that is what the guy on the phone told me.

My husband is appalled that they won't let his sons visit him but honestly I have been on this forum long enough that I am not surprised. We want my husband's sons to be able to visit their father, see where he lives, what his life is like here, to meet MY family, come for a week at a time for holidays, blah blah, the usual reasons for wanting to stay close to family. He has already missed critical years of his younger son's life (ages 11-15). Everyone here on VJ understands our desire for them to be able to visit, so I won't belabor the point. The question now is what to do about it.

I wrote a very detailed e-mail to the embassy explaining our situation and asking for reconsideration on the decision. I provided what I could to show their "ties to Bulgaria." I explained about the older son being in the middle of a 6-year medical program--we can provide transcripts, letters from professors, proof that he isn't even eligible to apply in the US since he doesn't have an undergraduate degree and hasn't taken the MCAT-- and the younger one living with his mother and that she would never grant permission for him to move here. (She was SUPPOSED to go to the interview with them, since kids younger than 18 can have a parent present, but she didn't go - which I'm sure did not help their case at all.) I asked what else we could provide.

Really, in our situation (one parent an American citizen living in the US, the other in Bulgaria with the child) what else could be provided to show ties?? I question whether any child in this situation is ever able to visit their parent in the US ... what ties does a 15 year old have beyond his mother's word and his high school registration?

According to some of the posts I have read here, there is never any reconsideration of a tourist visa decision. I know of those two reversals at the Sofia embassy but like I said they were pre-2007 so maybe it never EVER happens any more, but I have to at least try.

Of course we could fill out an I-130 immediately and immigrate the younger son here, which will take ~5 months and cost whatever it costs now, but that would only work for the one visit. As soon as he went home for more than a few months, his green card would be voided and we would be back to where we are now with probably less chance of being approved. The older kid just turned 21 so the wait time is posted at 2.5 years. And they DON'T WANT TO IMMIGRATE here, so it seems fraudulent to apply for this (this was suggested in another thread I read here, I will have to go back and find it - to apply for the IR-1 and then turn it in once it is granted so show that there is no intention to immigrate) so I don't want to do this. I haven't found that thread yet, but here is a similar one: http://www.visajourn...-my-step-kids/.

Ah - I just found this http://www.visajourn...st__p__4701434. So the younger son would be a citizen if we go the I-130 route? That's interesting.

And the older one has to just keep reapplying until the embassy folks are convinced that he is not going to leave medical training to come to the US to work as ... <whatever job he could get without a college diploma>?

Anyway if anyone has any advice or commiseration, much appreciated. I'll come back to update, as it was very useful for me to read what others have been through and at least I can contribute that...

[Boiler 45,517]

If the Mother would not agree to the younger child immigrating to the US then it would be game over. Hague Convention etc.

[SerenityNOW 11]

If the Mother would not agree to the younger child immigrating to the US then it would be game over. Hague Convention etc.

Yes, right, thanks for your reply. None of us agree to him immigrating here at this point, which is why we prefer not to go that route (but the parents' opinions may change if that is the only chance for him to come here). We can't plan anything yet. I am still trying to get the tourist visa approved but I know from the experiences posted on VJ that it is not likely.

Still waiting to hear back from the embassy from my request for reconsideration. Not holding my breath though, and exploring all the options.

I don't expect to have any miraculous outcome from this situation. Probably my husband and I will have to go there to see the kids this year and we'll try for a tourist visa again in 12 months even though their situation would be EXACTLY the same - but it seems quite common to reject people on the first or second try and then grant the visa, even though nothing has changed except that some time has passed.

Maybe Bulgaria will be in the VWP by then...(sorry link doesn't appear to work...) Supposedly their rejection rate is 16%. Interesting.

A proposal from US lawmakers to update the US Visa Waiver Programme (VWP) to make it easier for EU countries like Poland, Romania and Bulgaria to join has passed its first hurdle. ... The only EU citizens not on the VWP are from Poland, Bulgaria, Romania and Cyprus, who have been excluded in most cases due to their persistently high visa refusal rates.

Edited July 24, 2012 by SerenityNOW

[Boiler 45,517]

The only way to get a reconsideration is to reapply, Consulates deal with Visa's.

I would not hold your breath for Bulgaria to be admitted to the VWP, much more likely that the number of participants would be reduced.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Many reapply with success. I would reapply and have the mom accompany them. Her absence isn't a good omen.

[SerenityNOW 11]

I would not hold your breath for Bulgaria to be admitted to the VWP, much more likely that the number of participants would be reduced.

Yes I was naive enough to think this would have happened in 2008 before I had to MOVE to Bulgaria to be able to spend time with my boyfriend/fiance/husband ... but this May, the Senate Appropriations Committee approved the proposal for Poland, Romania and Bulgaria to enter into the VWP. It still has to be passed by the Senate. I don't know anything beyond that on this topic, so maybe parallel to this proposal, the VWP is being down-sized?? I was unaware of that. In any event - I'm not holding my breath, but it sure would help if it works out.

ANYWAY - we are outta this section of the forum! The reply from the embassy today was basically "don't even bother reapplying..." (as we suspected it would be). But yes we will throw our money at them again for the older one since he is in medical school and it is unreasonable to assume someone who is going to become a physician would come here and work whatever job he can find with a foreign high school diploma, but whatever. They are going to think what they think about his inability to be trusted not to immigrate here on a tourist visa.

Kudos to any of you who get to have your kids visit the US without immigrating them here! It didn't cross my mind when I married a foreigner that his kids wouldn't be allowed to visit him.

[Boiler 45,517]

If you ever watch The Big Bang Theory the episode titled The Bat Jar Conjecture may answer the question about the eldest sons visa opportunities.

At least his Father can visit him.

[Eric-Pris 1,606]

ANYWAY - we are outta this section of the forum! The reply from the embassy today was basically "don't even bother reapplying..." (as we suspected it would be). But yes we will throw our money at them again for the older one since he is in medical school and it is unreasonable to assume someone who is going to become a physician would come here and work whatever job he can find with a foreign high school diploma, but whatever. They are going to think what they think about his inability to be trusted not to immigrate here on a tourist visa.

Don't waste your money. The embassy in my wife's country told us the same thing. "Don't waste your money". They won't get a tourist visa, even though we could esaily get them here LEGALLY under a immigrant visa. The IO pretty much told us to apply for immigrant visas if we want them to ever come here. That's what we are doing early next year. And then they will be able to come and go as needed.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Eric-Pris

[Boiler 45,517]

Not quite.