Divorce

[diadromous mermaid 36]

"I don't follow your thought."

That's great! 'Cause my post wasn't meant to be followed by you, nor anyone else on these forums for that matter.

Okay!

[pittman1971 0]

I spoke to my wife for awhile last night about her intentions. I asked her to go to marriage counseling with me to try and work things out. She said she would do that. Her complaints are we live to far from the city, 29 miles. She said when she is upset with me she has no one here to talk to, I can simpithize but she knew that before she came here. I also told her that love should overcome any ostactle in front of us. If she truly loves me as she has said then we can work through this. On the other hand if she has truly married me in fraud then it will not work. I'm kind of on the fence about that, probably because I love her and the kids with all my heart. Its so much easier for us to be looking in from the other side when its not your heart on the line. I'm not saying thats a bad thing its actually helped me look at the big picture more clearly.

I think I gave her a scare yesterday because I asked her how she was going to explain to her daughter why her brother was not coming with them. I informed her that my son cannot leave the state of Louisiana, and if she does I will take legal action. I'm not a vindictive person but I have a son that I want to keep. I will do whatever it takes to do that. I told her if she takes my son to be expecting a police officer and an INS agent at her brother's door in Memphis. Her brother and cousin are illegal. I do not want to do that but my son comes before anyone else. She said I was wrong because she does not want the law or INS involved. I explained there would be no other choice. She would be desserting her husband after only being here for 2 months.

Well anyway today she went to work 2nd day on new job, seems very happy, of course that could be an act.

[SOlcayto 0]

Uh, yeah. I think it's an act. She doesn't want to be deported or her family members, that's why she's putting on a happy face now. And you expressing your undying love for her probably makes her feel sorry for you, which helps her keep up the act of pretending to be in love with you. I obviously have never met her but from your few posts it's painfully obvious what's going on here. You didn't get to her emotions and get her to be honest, you only scared her.

Sorry, you married someone like that but you should move on before this gets any worse.

SOL

[Fandango 1,439]

Pittman, wake up and see the writing on the wall!!! I'm sorry to be so blunt, but it's glaringly obvious that she's using you.

She doesn't seem like she's going to 'try' to make her marriage work...you basically just threatened her to staying with you or else she & her family will be shipped back to Mexico. Is that the way you want to live your life? With a woman who'sonly staying with your for citizenship? Cmon now....she will be gone the morning that she gets her citizenship...you'll be thinking that all is fine...and one day I am certain she will up and leave.

Look at the title of this thread...possible marriage fraud. You wrote that, not anyone else. You yourself know it, but don't want to really face what's going on htere. I understand your heart is at stake, but at the end of the day, a heart can be stupid...a heart can be decieved...and a heart only hears and sees what it wants to. You have said it's easy for us to come to a conclusion because we're on the outside looking in, but realize that because we don't have an emotional investment, it's easy to be objective.

To summarize your situation:

You became friends

She offered you $2k to marry her

You said no, I'll only marry someone I love

She said she loved you

You got married

Despite her being flush enough to offer you $2k, you slogged your guts out sending her money every month

She comes from a well off family & was living nicely & sending your hard earned money to other family members

She moves here, is unhappy...asks you to move to Memphis, and when you say no...she asks for her papers & says she is willing to move without you.

Seriously, how in the world can you not see this?

[ariel_2005 0]

I spoke to my wife for awhile last night about her intentions. I asked her to go to marriage counseling with me to try and work things out. She said she would do that. Her complaints are we live to far from the city, 29 miles. She said when she is upset with me she has no one here to talk to, I can simpithize but she knew that before she came here. I also told her that love should overcome any ostactle in front of us. If she truly loves me as she has said then we can work through this. On the other hand if she has truly married me in fraud then it will not work. I'm kind of on the fence about that, probably because I love her and the kids with all my heart. Its so much easier for us to be looking in from the other side when its not your heart on the line. I'm not saying thats a bad thing its actually helped me look at the big picture more clearly.

I think I gave her a scare yesterday because I asked her how she was going to explain to her daughter why her brother was not coming with them. I informed her that my son cannot leave the state of Louisiana, and if she does I will take legal action. I'm not a vindictive person but I have a son that I want to keep. I will do whatever it takes to do that. I told her if she takes my son to be expecting a police officer and an INS agent at her brother's door in Memphis. Her brother and cousin are illegal. I do not want to do that but my son comes before anyone else. She said I was wrong because she does not want the law or INS involved. I explained there would be no other choice. She would be desserting her husband after only being here for 2 months.

Well anyway today she went to work 2nd day on new job, seems very happy, of course that could be an act.

sorry to hear whats happening to you .... i can tell u are a good person and u just want to have a life with someone you love but she is not the one from all i read.... too bad your little boy is in the middle of all this... wish u good luck on your decisions.... Iulia

[diadromous mermaid 36]

too bad your little boy is in the middle of all this... wish u good luck on your decisions.... Iulia

Ariel 2005,

Finally, someone sees that this is no longer a case solely oriented around either pittman or his wife's personal interests. When a child is brought into a situation like this, one has to think of what is best for the innocent one, regardless of the wrongs the adults may have committed. This infant deserves to have a relationship with both mother and father. Be it in one household, or two.

[dmartmar 1]

You should get rid of her asap and request full custody of your child.

[BobandXiaomei 14]

You should get rid of her asap and request full custody of your child.

I agree and you should find an attorney.

I think there's more in Memphis than a job.

[dawnnhatem 0]

By reading the other posts, I suspect that my opinion wont be very popular here but I understand wanting to give someone the benefit of the doubt as long as you possibly can -and I think its possible her actions aren't as sinister as they might look.

You said that you lived in Memphis when you first married, and that is where she has relatives and a situation she could deal with. It sounds like one of the first things you did as her husband was isolate her from that ...and I would guess that isn't setting well with her or her family and if they care about her it shouldn't. Don't think I'm saying you are a bad guy, I dont think that. I just think that such a drastic change could be percieved as "bait and switch" or worse. This is my take on it - if I had a little sister that married someone I was even iffy about and he immediately moved her to the sticks where I couldn't see how he treated her I would come unglued and I wouldn't want to hear about his cheap house payment. She could be getting that kind of pressure from well meaning family to get out of that asap. I know technically this is between you and her, but if the reality is that she gets influenced by them, then you will need to build up their trust (maybe her trust too) before pulling something like that. I don't see how you can ever get her trust or their trust if you are percieved this way: we live here, take it or leave it and if you leave it I get the baby and I'll call immigration... Even if thats not your position, it could be percieved that way and you may never overcome that if you pressure her to stay where she is unhappy.

You posted that you told her that if she loved you she would try harder to adjust. Well, you could consider moving back to memphis. It might cost more to live there but not that much more, and you would have 2 incomes and your family could stay intact. I'm not trying to upset you, just adding a different possible veiw.

I really hope you two can work something out. Good luck

[JayJay 4]

Aha dawnnhatem! I was about to say the same kind of thing there!

Thing is this: while it's really, really easy to jump to conclusions over some people's actions, the truth is that people's actions, whatever they may be are influenced very deeply by the inner workings of their brain.

Sometimes, what might look like a blatant case of using may well not be so. Take for example an imaginary character Mary: Mary has asked her husband for a lot of money in the last few months, then more money again as she abruptly runs out all of a sudden, and then again. What could be going on? Well it's actually quite hard to ascertain...

1) Mary is staying somewhere in a hotel, paying for room and board, food, clothing, nappies etc and taxi rides and bus fares etc for herself and her little baby.

2) Mary has a shopping habit. A really big shopping habit - this happens an awful lot, ya know! It's pretty much an addiction, fueled by boredom, wanting a "place" and "things" for yourself (which would fit in rather well as an alien in the States), as well as other factors like family influence and type of childhood.

There could be tons of other reasons as well, as to why someone would require a lot of money on a monthly basis. One really cannot jump to a conclusion about that...

Ok - now onto the $2000 she offered you to marry her. Now I may be taking a giant leap here but there MUST have been a good reason for her to get out of Mexico and come to America. Why was that? What was she running away from there? Paying someone $2000 is a LOT of money to leave a place... And if she DID come here to escape something, does that necessarily mean that she doesn't love you? I don't think it's that clear cut, and I do think that saying it is would be really damaging - you can never, ever know exactly what's in someone's heart, especially not when they're as stressed out as your wife sounds, and in such an awkward situation.

It's NOT easy adjusting. Not easy at all...cultural differences come and hit you smack in the mouth when you least expect them to. I've found myself overwhelmed and feeling like a little kid on more than one occasion. My husband was riddled with guilt for keeping me here, became stressed and simultaneously wanted to fix things. We stopped smiling, laughing, cuddling and feeling close - even talking for a while, while this was going on. It felt for a little bit, like we were strangers. Do we love each other? Absolutely! Were we scared? Yes. Were we silly and childish sometimes in the ways that we acted that stress out? Yes. Did we want to be together? More than anything.

I would seriously suggest some counselling for you two - you know, you can have that not only with a therapist but also online, and obviously at a church as well. I also have a book recommendation for you which I honestly think BOTH of you should read that you can find here:

"Do I Have to Give Up Me to be Loved by You?"

It's by two married...marriage counsellors and is the best book on learning to communicate and understand another person, that I've ever read. Give that a shot - you will be pleasantly surprised, I guarantee it.

Here's the thing: she's agreed to go to counselling with you. That's a good thing. You want this, so what the hey - go after it. If you DO NOT go after this, you will regret it - whether or not she's "using you". That's the funny thing about life.

Nobody ever said marriage would be simple. Two people need to listen - really LISTEN to each other and accept what the other feels - whether it be about raising children, or moving to Memphis. You need to feel loved, she needs to feel loved and BOTH of you need to feel that your values, opinions and beliefs about all things are taken into account, thought about and considered by the other person. When your emotions STOP affecting her, and vice-versa, you've hit a stumbling block that should be deal with.

People are complex things: communication doesn't always come at the drop of a hat - if you have perfect communication in your marriage than lucky, lucky you - a lot of people around are dragging remnants of childhood, fears, insecurities, secrets and lies around like bits of concrete on chains from their feet. Communication can be hard, but here's the thing:- she's not "emotionless" or "cold" or "evil" - she has her reasons for doing everything, and if she's wanting to really talk to you, here's your chance to help her out for real - by listening, understanding and healing, you're in with a real shot of finding out why she's been so scared of being close to you these last few months, and I very much hope that you two can find the friendship and intimate love you once shared, on an even deeper level once again (F)

[pittman1971 0]

dawnnhatem

You have a good point, I have already considered that. My wife also lived in Louisiana a short time before going back to Mexico. She liked it here then. At that time she only had 1 cousin in Memphis that she never saw. When we discussed living and raising our children here she was excited because of my family and people in the area. In the last couple of days we have discussed moving into the city here or possibly Memphis if we can find good employment. Monday she started work at her 1st job here in LA. Everyday seems to be getting better, this morning she could not say enough good things about her job and the people she works with. She is finally meeting new people other than the people I have introduced her to. I believe that has helped her a lot. I know its a challenge moving from a big city to almost nothing, I did the same thing. The benefit I have had is everybody speaks english when she is not as fluent as most. I have introduced her to several hispanic people in the area and she sometimes speaks to them. When we lived in Memphis she was not always happy either, she never had friends or family come see her. Her motto was if they cannot come see me then I will not go to them. I do not aggree with that because her friends have children and its not always easy to go places with little ones. When we lived in memphis her daughter was in Mexico and our son was not born yet, so it was much easier for us to go about. In our discussions the biggest stresses for her have been learning to take care of the children by herself. Her family in mexico took care of her daughter all her life and when my son was born the same. This is the 1st time only her. Another thing she does not like to stay home all day, can't blame her there, it can get boring. I can see a definate change in her since she started working, she works 7a-4p M-F less than 2 miles from my office. in Memphis she would have to work 3rd shift as is normal for someone starting out. That would take a lot of time away from the family.

This morning she said she wished her brothers could move here from Memphis. There has always been an open invitation at our home if they want to do that. I reassured her of that this morning.

We have also decided to see a doctor and marriage counseler to see if we can hash out our problems. I know I'm not perfect but who is. The doctor will be checking her thyroids and depression problems. She has always had a problem with depression and anxiaty in Memphis, mexico and here in Louisiana. I've seen 1st hand, she is happy one minute then can go into a rage the next or just sit there and stare. I've noticed that she seems to have memory lapses, things she or I had done like 2 days ago she does not remember. I find that quite strange, thats why I want her to see a doctor. I can not diagnose because I am not a doctor. I can only see whats happening.

As far as if she still wants to leave then I will still have to stay here. It is impossible for me to move now. I have a government contract to fulfill, home to pay for. If I do not fulfill my contract I can be sued and then not beable to receive any more contracts. Its not always as easy as it seems to jump up and move. Please remember these decisions to live here, buy a home, take this contract were both mine and my wife's decision. As we are adults we have a reponsibility to stand by our word. Who knows even if we did go to memphis now would she then say I want to move too California where more of her family lives. We cannot keep uprooting everytime she is unhappy. That would lead to a very unstable life for our children. I know this because my mother moved our family at least 6 times when I was a child. We moved from Memphis to Houston to Louisiana then we reversed that process again except we did not go back to Memphis. I want stability for my family.

Thanks everyone for your posts. I am still keeping my guard up justm in case things change, but I'm hoping for the best.

[pittman1971 0]

Aha dawnnhatem! I was about to say the same kind of thing there!

Thing is this: while it's really, really easy to jump to conclusions over some people's actions, the truth is that people's actions, whatever they may be are influenced very deeply by the inner workings of their brain.

Sometimes, what might look like a blatant case of using may well not be so. Take for example an imaginary character Mary: Mary has asked her husband for a lot of money in the last few months, then more money again as she abruptly runs out all of a sudden, and then again. What could be going on? Well it's actually quite hard to ascertain...

1) Mary is staying somewhere in a hotel, paying for room and board, food, clothing, nappies etc and taxi rides and bus fares etc for herself and her little baby.

2) Mary has a shopping habit. A really big shopping habit - this happens an awful lot, ya know! It's pretty much an addiction, fueled by boredom, wanting a "place" and "things" for yourself (which would fit in rather well as an alien in the States), as well as other factors like family influence and type of childhood.

There could be tons of other reasons as well, as to why someone would require a lot of money on a monthly basis. One really cannot jump to a conclusion about that...

Ok - now onto the $2000 she offered you to marry her. Now I may be taking a giant leap here but there MUST have been a good reason for her to get out of Mexico and come to America. Why was that? What was she running away from there? Paying someone $2000 is a LOT of money to leave a place... And if she DID come here to escape something, does that necessarily mean that she doesn't love you? I don't think it's that clear cut, and I do think that saying it is would be really damaging - you can never, ever know exactly what's in someone's heart, especially not when they're as stressed out as your wife sounds, and in such an awkward situation.

It's NOT easy adjusting. Not easy at all...cultural differences come and hit you smack in the mouth when you least expect them to. I've found myself overwhelmed and feeling like a little kid on more than one occasion. My husband was riddled with guilt for keeping me here, became stressed and simultaneously wanted to fix things. We stopped smiling, laughing, cuddling and feeling close - even talking for a while, while this was going on. It felt for a little bit, like we were strangers. Do we love each other? Absolutely! Were we scared? Yes. Were we silly and childish sometimes in the ways that we acted that stress out? Yes. Did we want to be together? More than anything.

I would seriously suggest some counselling for you two - you know, you can have that not only with a therapist but also online, and obviously at a church as well. I also have a book recommendation for you which I honestly think BOTH of you should read that you can find here:

"Do I Have to Give Up Me to be Loved by You?"

It's by two married...marriage counsellors and is the best book on learning to communicate and understand another person, that I've ever read. Give that a shot - you will be pleasantly surprised, I guarantee it.

Here's the thing: she's agreed to go to counselling with you. That's a good thing. You want this, so what the hey - go after it. If you DO NOT go after this, you will regret it - whether or not she's "using you". That's the funny thing about life.

Nobody ever said marriage would be simple. Two people need to listen - really LISTEN to each other and accept what the other feels - whether it be about raising children, or moving to Memphis. You need to feel loved, she needs to feel loved and BOTH of you need to feel that your values, opinions and beliefs about all things are taken into account, thought about and considered by the other person. When your emotions STOP affecting her, and vice-versa, you've hit a stumbling block that should be deal with.

People are complex things: communication doesn't always come at the drop of a hat - if you have perfect communication in your marriage than lucky, lucky you - a lot of people around are dragging remnants of childhood, fears, insecurities, secrets and lies around like bits of concrete on chains from their feet. Communication can be hard, but here's the thing:- she's not "emotionless" or "cold" or "evil" - she has her reasons for doing everything, and if she's wanting to really talk to you, here's your chance to help her out for real - by listening, understanding and healing, you're in with a real shot of finding out why she's been so scared of being close to you these last few months, and I very much hope that you two can find the friendship and intimate love you once shared, on an even deeper level once again (F)

JayJay

I believe you hit it right on the money. The last 2 days since she has started her job we have grown closer and communicating better. Its almost like when we were 1st married. I hope our marrieage keeps improving.

Thanks for your post

[SOlcayto 0]

I wouldn't have jumped to conclusions so quickly had you included this medical situation in your original post. The way your original post was stated, it was like you were trying to make her sound like she was using you.

Anyhow, good luck, hope it works out.

SOL

dawnnhatem

You have a good point, I have already considered that. My wife also lived in Louisiana a short time before going back to Mexico. She liked it here then. At that time she only had 1 cousin in Memphis that she never saw. When we discussed living and raising our children here she was excited because of my family and people in the area. In the last couple of days we have discussed moving into the city here or possibly Memphis if we can find good employment. Monday she started work at her 1st job here in LA. Everyday seems to be getting better, this morning she could not say enough good things about her job and the people she works with. She is finally meeting new people other than the people I have introduced her to. I believe that has helped her a lot. I know its a challenge moving from a big city to almost nothing, I did the same thing. The benefit I have had is everybody speaks english when she is not as fluent as most. I have introduced her to several hispanic people in the area and she sometimes speaks to them. When we lived in Memphis she was not always happy either, she never had friends or family come see her. Her motto was if they cannot come see me then I will not go to them. I do not aggree with that because her friends have children and its not always easy to go places with little ones. When we lived in memphis her daughter was in Mexico and our son was not born yet, so it was much easier for us to go about. In our discussions the biggest stresses for her have been learning to take care of the children by herself. Her family in mexico took care of her daughter all her life and when my son was born the same. This is the 1st time only her. Another thing she does not like to stay home all day, can't blame her there, it can get boring. I can see a definate change in her since she started working, she works 7a-4p M-F less than 2 miles from my office. in Memphis she would have to work 3rd shift as is normal for someone starting out. That would take a lot of time away from the family.

This morning she said she wished her brothers could move here from Memphis. There has always been an open invitation at our home if they want to do that. I reassured her of that this morning.

We have also decided to see a doctor and marriage counseler to see if we can hash out our problems. I know I'm not perfect but who is. The doctor will be checking her thyroids and depression problems. She has always had a problem with depression and anxiaty in Memphis, mexico and here in Louisiana. I've seen 1st hand, she is happy one minute then can go into a rage the next or just sit there and stare. I've noticed that she seems to have memory lapses, things she or I had done like 2 days ago she does not remember. I find that quite strange, thats why I want her to see a doctor. I can not diagnose because I am not a doctor. I can only see whats happening.

As far as if she still wants to leave then I will still have to stay here. It is impossible for me to move now. I have a government contract to fulfill, home to pay for. If I do not fulfill my contract I can be sued and then not beable to receive any more contracts. Its not always as easy as it seems to jump up and move. Please remember these decisions to live here, buy a home, take this contract were both mine and my wife's decision. As we are adults we have a reponsibility to stand by our word. Who knows even if we did go to memphis now would she then say I want to move too California where more of her family lives. We cannot keep uprooting everytime she is unhappy. That would lead to a very unstable life for our children. I know this because my mother moved our family at least 6 times when I was a child. We moved from Memphis to Houston to Louisiana then we reversed that process again except we did not go back to Memphis. I want stability for my family.

Thanks everyone for your posts. I am still keeping my guard up justm in case things change, but I'm hoping for the best.

[Fandango 1,439]

Yeah, I agree with Sol....had I known that there were medical issues at work here, I wouldn't have jumped to conclusions either.

I do wish you the best of luck & hope it works out....

[JayJay 4]

lol - guys, you two are lovely and wise people - don't you worry about jumping to conclusions, because you know what? You only had a certain amount of info to go by and did so in a respectful and kind manner (F) (I am thinking of certain people here who can be REALLY abrupt and unkind, and you two aint them )