Flier for whites only pastors' conference has residents upset

[rocks 494]

Are those school statistics you posted for the entire states population, or just the black population, which is what the original premise was based upon. Got a link?

Yes, just the black population. I got the data from Danno's link.

[JohnR! 5,495]

1341848692[/url]' post='5511932']

In the egalitarian mind, all races are equal in every way, it is an Orthodoxy which can't be challenged in the recent few decades of the Western world (yet was nearly unknown before that). But this idea is laughable in many or most parts of the world. So the ideas about a hierarchy of races these guys hold is probably closer to the majority view point in the world. Though most people see this hierarchy more along the lines of -usefulness- rather than some "higher purpose" though that is common as well, we can see the fruit of that in the news daily.

That may be true, however we are discussing the episode in the context of American culture an placing it in the United Sates in the year 2012. You can shake it however you want, and still nobody can come up with a plausible and acceptable explanation as to the behavior of these radical fundamentalists, other than their unmitigated ignorance and bigotry.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Yes, just the black population. I got the data from Danno's link.

Yes, Mississippi, Alabama and Arkansas all seem to be at the bottom of the so called "slave states" according to those scores amongst black students. But the other slave states have these scores that are at or above the national level of 128, how do you explain that? Virginia(138), Texas(137), Kentucky(135), Delaware(134), Georgia(133), Missouri(130), Maryland(131), South Carolina(128) and North Carolina(125).

[Danno 1,228]

As if facts were all you needed to change your viewpoint.

Mississippi is the most conservative state in the country. It has no fortune 500 companies. The biggest employer is the military. There is very little chance of excelling. Wages are the lowest in the nation. The same job in a neighboring state will always have higher pay. The median household income is $36,850. The good ol' boys prevent the state from progressing, it's not about what you know, all that matters is who you know. Slavery was prevalent, as a result it has the highest percentage of African Americans in the country. The scores are below the national average in Science, Reading and Mathematics.

Washington is in the top 10 liberal states. It has 8 fortune 500 companies. The biggest employer is Boeing. There are many job opportunities here. The median household income is $58,330. It became the 42nd state in 1889, after slavery was abolished. It ranks #36 in the nation for the % of African American inhabitants. The scores are above average in Science, Reading and Mathematics. They are considerably higher than the scores for Mississippi.

Grade 8 Mississippi

Science - 77% below basic, 23% at or above basic, 5% proficient, 0% advanced

National public scale score - 128

Average scale score - 119

Reading - 52% below basic, 48% at or above basic, 9% proficient, 0% advanced

National public scale score - 248

Average scale score - 240

Math - 60% below basic, 40% at or above basic, 8% proficient, 0% advanced

National public scale score - 262

Average scale score - 255

Grade 8 Washington

Science - 56% below basic, 44% at or above basic, 15% proficient, 0% advanced

National public scale score - 128

Average scale score - 133

Reading - 34% below basic, 66% at or above basic, 22% proficient, 1% advanced

National public scale score - 248

Average scale score - 254

Math - 44% below basic, 56% at or above basic, 15% proficient, 2% advanced

National public scale score - 262

Average scale score - 265

I guess we just can't connect on this issue, I refer to how Jim Crow Effects our Black community and you are focused on comparing whole states.

I even posted the link where you can compare how Black students are doing.. Jim Crow states-Non jim crow states and it seems to have no effect.

I get that some states on whole do better in education but this only buttresses my point......

If Black students in the lower achieving areas (where Jim crow was) are doing equal or in some cases better than black students where Jim crow or slavery never existed...... what can we conclude?

Q: If you believe the shadow of Jim crow and slavery is holding the potential of Black folks back...... why the never ending talk about it?

How often do Irish people get reminded they were thought of as "The bottom of the European barrel" when they came?

[Danno 1,228]

Yes, just the black population. I got the data from Danno's link.

It's interactive, you can click on any tab and get the results, it's a handy up to day tool.

[Danno 1,228]

That may be true, however we are discussing the episode in the context of American culture an placing it in the United Sates in the year 2012. You can shake it however you want, and still nobody can come up with a plausible and acceptable explanation as to the behavior of these radical fundamentalists, other than their unmitigated ignorance and bigotry.

The only thing I can come up with is they see it has been acceptable for the President so why not follow his lead and form associations based on race.

[JohnR! 5,495]

The only thing I can come up with is they see it has been acceptable for the President so why not follow his lead and form associations based on race.

In any case, it still does not show where they base their belief that whites are god's chosen people... Their statement is very clear to that effect and it generates more questions. How can they support the notion that only white people are the chosen ones, by god, other than on their unmitigated ignorance and bigotry?

[Danno 1,228]

In any case, it still does not show where they base their belief that whites are god's chosen people... Their statement is very clear to that effect and it generates more questions. How can they support the notion that only white people are the chosen ones, by god, other than on their unmitigated ignorance and bigotry?

I think we found something we can agree on.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Yes, Mississippi, Alabama and Arkansas all seem to be at the bottom of the so called "slave states" according to those scores amongst black students. But the other slave states have these scores that are at or above the national level of 128, how do you explain that? Virginia(138), Texas(137), Kentucky(135), Delaware(134), Georgia(133), Missouri(130), Maryland(131), South Carolina(128) and North Carolina(125).

Please be advised you're killing Danno's point with this post.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Please be advised you're killing Danno's point with this post.

Which point would that be?

Edited July 9, 2012 by Teddy B

[Danno 1,228]

Which point would that be?

He is wishing someone could put a dent in the facts I presented.

I posted the data, somene... anyone make the case that Blacks closest to Jim crow and slavery are doing much worse than blacks in other ransom places with no such history.

As a side note, IIRC, it seemed Blacks students in Col. scored at the top (for blacks) we might want to find out why and if it is something that can be built on.

One of the concerning developments I see growing is the ANTI-SCIENCE mentality the left is developing when it comes to topics or facts they don't like.

I predict they will grow ever increasingly strident and determined to hang on to Orthodoxies.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Which point would that be?

The one he is working so hard to avoid claiming to make.

Danno please! You are hardly engaging in science, and so contrary to scientific theory and thought it would be laughable except you stick to your hockum like glue.

Edited July 10, 2012 by ready4ONE

[rocks 494]

Yes, Mississippi, Alabama and Arkansas all seem to be at the bottom of the so called "slave states" according to those scores amongst black students. But the other slave states have these scores that are at or above the national level of 128, how do you explain that? Virginia(138), Texas(137), Kentucky(135), Delaware(134), Georgia(133), Missouri(130), Maryland(131), South Carolina(128) and North Carolina(125).

Poverty plays a big part in education. There are other factors to include as well. The opportunity to be successful is part of it. Another is the closer you get to the Mason Dixon line, the more liberal people tend to be, compared to the deep south (LA, MS, AL, GA, SC). This would affect the laws and acts of a state, as well as the social welfare of its people. You have to take all of these into account when looking at the facts.

Link

Taylor's historical research shows that numerous factors led to poverty, including laws and acts, white and male privilege, scientific racism and social welfare. Her research about the current manifestations of poverty shows that much work needs to be done, because the situation has not improved. Taylor said a problem in U.S. public schools is that many reinforce a dominant cultural reproduction, which undermines independent thought.

Four slave states never declared a secession: Delaware, Kentucky, Maryland, and Missouri, and four others did not declare secession until after the 1861 Battle of Fort Sumter: Arkansas, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia—after which, they were less frequently called "border states". Also included as a border state during the war is West Virginia, which broke away from Confederate Virginia and became a new state in the Union.

Poverty by state for 2005 (avg 12.6%), State median income for 2004-2006 (avg $51,679), Grade 8 results for black pupils in 2005 (avg 147 science, 242 reading and math), Expenditure per pupil for elementary and secondary schools 2004-2005.

Here are the numbers for the states you listed. Deep south, Other "Slave States", States that never seceded.

Mississippi.......20.1%.......$38,131... (114, 237)...$7,448... 50.5% conservative

Louisiana.........18.3%........$41,496... (120, 240)...$8,826... 46.8% conservative

Alabama..........16.7%........$42,307...(114, 235)....$7,783... 48.3% conservative

Texas...............16.2%.......$47,174... (125, 246)...$8,321... 44.2% conservative

Arkansas.........15.9%........$41,304... (113, 236)...$8,778... 45.0% conservative

South Carolina.15.0%.........$44,755... (127, 242)...$8,841... 45.8% conservative

Tennessee........15.0%........$43,778... (119, 240)...$7,908... 43.6% conservative

Kentucky..........14.8%........$41,724... (130, 248)...$8,923... 42.8% conservative

Georgia............14.4%........$51,934... (125, 241)...$9,134... 43.0% conservative

North Carolina..13.1%.........$45,254...(122, 240)....$7,901... 41.4% conservative

Missouri...........11.6%.........$48,198... (124, 242)...$8,903... 43.1% conservative

Florida............11.1%..........$48,521... (118, 238)...$8,232... 39.4% conservative

Maryland.........9.7%...........$68,482... (123, 244)...$11,490... 32.2% conservative

Delaware.........9.2%...........$57,110... (134, 252)...$12,534... 33.3% conservative

Virginia...........9.2%............$60,653...(133, 251)...$10,054... 38.6% conservative

You can see there is a correlation between poverty, income, amounts spent per student and the grade 8 scores.

Compare this to Washington. Washington became the 42nd state in 1889, after slavery was abolished. It has much higher scores.

Washington ...........10.2%............$57,788...(137, 255)...$8.905... 33.1% conservative

[rocks 494]

I guess we just can't connect on this issue, I refer to how Jim Crow Effects our Black community and you are focused on comparing whole states.

I even posted the link where you can compare how Black students are doing.. Jim Crow states-Non jim crow states and it seems to have no effect.

I get that some states on whole do better in education but this only buttresses my point......

If Black students in the lower achieving areas (where Jim crow was) are doing equal or in some cases better than black students where Jim crow or slavery never existed...... what can we conclude?

Q: If you believe the shadow of Jim crow and slavery is holding the potential of Black folks back...... why the never ending talk about it?

How often do Irish people get reminded they were thought of as "The bottom of the European barrel" when they came?

Irish people are constantly reminded of that.

You spoke of slavery, slavery was by state.

And why are not Blacks who live in areas that never had slavery doing remarkably better than Black in the South?

[Danno 1,228]

Poverty plays a big part in education. There are other factors to include as well. The opportunity to be successful is part of it. Another is the closer you get to the Mason Dixon line, the more liberal people tend to be, compared to the deep south (LA, MS, AL, GA, SC). This would affect the laws and acts of a state, as well as the social welfare of its people. You have to take all of these into account when looking at the facts.

Link

Poverty by state for 2005 (avg 12.6%), State median income for 2004-2006 (avg $51,679), Grade 8 results for black pupils in 2005 (avg 147 science, 242 reading and math), Expenditure per pupil for elementary and secondary schools 2004-2005.

Here are the numbers for the states you listed. Deep south, Other "Slave States", States that never seceded.

Mississippi.......20.1%.......$38,131... (114, 237)...$7,448... 50.5% conservative

Louisiana.........18.3%........$41,496... (120, 240)...$8,826... 46.8% conservative

Alabama..........16.7%........$42,307...(114, 235)....$7,783... 48.3% conservative

Texas...............16.2%.......$47,174... (125, 246)...$8,321... 44.2% conservative

Arkansas.........15.9%........$41,304... (113, 236)...$8,778... 45.0% conservative

South Carolina.15.0%.........$44,755... (127, 242)...$8,841... 45.8% conservative

Tennessee........15.0%........$43,778... (119, 240)...$7,908... 43.6% conservative

Kentucky..........14.8%........$41,724... (130, 248)...$8,923... 42.8% conservative

Georgia............14.4%........$51,934... (125, 241)...$9,134... 43.0% conservative

North Carolina..13.1%.........$45,254...(122, 240)....$7,901... 41.4% conservative

Missouri...........11.6%.........$48,198... (124, 242)...$8,903... 43.1% conservative

Florida............11.1%..........$48,521... (118, 238)...$8,232... 39.4% conservative

Maryland.........9.7%...........$68,482... (123, 244)...$11,490... 32.2% conservative

Delaware.........9.2%...........$57,110... (134, 252)...$12,534... 33.3% conservative

Virginia...........9.2%............$60,653...(133, 251)...$10,054... 38.6% conservative

You can see there is a correlation between poverty, income, amounts spent per student and the grade 8 scores.

Compare this to Washington. Washington became the 42nd state in 1889, after slavery was abolished. It has much higher scores.

Washington ...........10.2%............$57,788...(137, 255)...$8.905... 33.1% conservative

Not sure why you keep making the comparison with Washington, when A) a broader comparison of many states would be more telling B) In science the Students in GA did as well as Washington (the state you cherry picked to make your case).

and C) The example you offered only looks a higher until you show where those Students in WA. should be. Post the same WA scores next to the White or Asian students there.

Why are not the Black students students in Washington on par with Whites and Asians?

Jim crow?

PS: YOu get props for the effort.