Hand Guns

[Teddy B 17,251]

Wow it is so difficult to get you to understand this point.

Oh well, here goes again:

A If I hand my handgun in, what difference would that make to gun crime in the USA ? You are right - none

B If ALL handguns did not exist in the USA, what difference would that make to gun crime ?

My proposition is that it would make a lot of difference.

Gang members and drug addicts etc often hang out with hand guns on them. Many of the crimes they commit with those guns are not pre-meditated many hours in advance but they are impulsive or drug inspired or both. Hanging around all day with a long gun or even a sawn-off shotgun is not practical for these people

I conclude that removing all handguns from the scene is bound to be helpful in reducing gun crime

You are dodging the question. I'll ask it one more time in very simple terms so that there will be no confusion whatsoever in what it is I am asking you.

You claim to feel very strongly that outlawing handguns will save many lives. You claim that if a bill to outlaw handguns was passed that you would turn all of your handguns in. I'm asking you, why is the law stopping you from taking that first step and showing everyone just how serious your beliefs are? Why does it have to be a law for you to do what you claim to believe so strongly in? There is a chance that you could save one or more lives by doing so, which is the core for your starting this thread.

[Teddy B 17,251]

It's pretty simple. A child could understand what you mean.

Yet you fail to grasp it.

[Captain Oates 910]

is gun crime committed only with handguns?

if handguns were removed from the scenario, would other types of guns be used to take their place?

I don't think other guns would be used. If someone sets off to commit a crime then yes they will take the best (and biggest) gun they can

My point is that the street people who often stick up corner stores are twitching for another fix and they only have the handgun that they carry all the time and they only decide to do the crime at very short notice. They simply couldn't hang around on street corners with long guns, so its impractical to have a long gun with you all the time. Soldiers put their long guns down at the first opportunity when they are sat down resting - they are uncomfortable and inconvenient to have on you at all times and the police can spot them much easier and they are hard to run with or get in and out of cars with

The people who argue for hand guns say they are necessary in the house because long guns are ungainly

They cant have it both ways and say all these kids on street corners would have no problem carrying long guns or indeed sawn-off shotguns. Long guns can be concealed temporarily, but these people live with their hand guns on them 24 hours a day

[Ban Hammer 13,137]

I don't think other guns would be used. If someone sets off to commit a crime then yes they will take the best (and biggest) gun they can

My point is that the street people who often stick up corner stores are twitching for another fix and they only have the handgun that they carry all the time and they only decide to do the crime at very short notice. They simply couldn't hang around on street corners with long guns, so its impractical to have a long gun with you all the time. Soldiers put their long guns down at the first opportunity when they are sat down resting - they are uncomfortable and inconvenient to have on you at all times and the police can spot them much easier and they are hard to run with or get in and out of cars with

The people who argue for hand guns say they are necessary in the house because long guns are ungainly

They cant have it both ways and say all these kids on street corners would have no problem carrying long guns or indeed sawn-off shotguns. Long guns can be concealed temporarily, but these people live with their hand guns on them 24 hours a day

these are pretty small. and can be concealed too.

[Captain Oates 910]

You are dodging the question. I'll ask it one more time in very simple terms so that there will be no confusion whatsoever in what it is I am asking you.

You claim to feel very strongly that outlawing handguns will save many lives. You claim that if a bill to outlaw handguns was passed that you would turn all of your handguns in. I'm asking you, why is the law stopping you from taking that first step and showing everyone just how serious your beliefs are? Why does it have to be a law for you to do what you claim to believe so strongly in? There is a chance that you could save one or more lives by doing so, which is the core for your starting this thread.

I have answered you many times but you seem to be unable to make coarse distinctions, never mind fine ones

This isn't even a fine distinction

ok let's take it in singles (cricketing term)

Handing in MY gun would have zero effect on US gun crime

Can you agree with that ? Yes ? So why are you urging me to do it ?

It doesn't even start to make sense !

Now lets make another leap of understanding

Handing in ALL guns would make a difference

Just WHAT is so hard about this ? The ape creatures of the Indus Valley could grasp this argument whether they agreed with it or not

Edited July 6, 2012 by Ashud Cocoa

[Ban Hammer 13,137]

Handing in ALL guns would make a difference

yes, i see the gang bangers willingly doing that.

[kytwell 179]

Gang members and drug addicts etc often hang out with hand guns on them. Many of the crimes they commit with those guns are not pre-meditated many hours in advance but they are impulsive or drug inspired or both. Hanging around all day with a long gun or even a sawn-off shotgun is not practical for these people

I conclude that removing all handguns from the scene is bound to be helpful in reducing gun crime

You left out the most important factor regarding these gang members...

There's guys who hang out at gun clubs all day. Talking, arguing and fighting...yet there's not a lot of murders that take place there, despite the fact that there's a large availability of weapons to utilize.

I conclude that gang members aren't going to turn in their guns.

[rocks 494]

I conclude that gang members aren't going to turn in their guns.

Did gun owners "turn in their guns" during Hurricane Katrina?

[Captain Oates 910]

yes, i see the gang bangers willingly doing that.

I would have a BIG mandatory penalty for possession

The Romans used crucifixion as a penalty for some crimes (sticking gum under the bar counter), but I wouldn't go so far.

However, it is possible to instill fear into criminals minds to the extent that they treat a handgun like a chunk of white hot pig iron

Its like that in the UK

Even hardened criminals are scared to death of even being found with a bullet in their possession because its BIG trouble.

I buy mine in walmart with no ID

There is no doubt that getting handguns off the streets would take a generation, but it could be done

[kytwell 179]

Did gun owners "turn in their guns" during Hurricane Katrina?

I'll let you answer that one, with the below reply.

What does that have to do with the price of fish?

Edited July 6, 2012 by kytwell

[Ban Hammer 13,137]

I would have a BIG mandatory penalty for possession

kinda like that big penalty for murder that seems to be ineffective?

[Captain Oates 910]

You left out the most important factor regarding these gang members...

There's guys who hang out at gun clubs all day. Talking, arguing and fighting...yet there's not a lot of murders that take place there, despite the fact that there's a large availability of weapons to utilize.

I conclude that gang members aren't going to turn in their guns.

There is no neural path that could possibly connected all these disjunctive statements

What the heck have gun club members arguing, got to do with gang members turning in their guns ?

My mind is swimming in trying to understand your posts today

I can understand contrary views, but I cant understand statements that have no obvious connection to one another

Is it me ?

[Ban Hammer 13,137]

What the heck have gun club members arguing, got to do with gang members turning in their guns ?

perhaps that your plan would penalize both groups equally?

[Operator 1,927]

Is it me ?

It's not you, I don't follow it either.

[Captain Oates 910]

perhaps that your plan would penalize both groups equally?

wow thanks for that lifeline clarification Charles

Yes it would indeed penalize both, but the only way to stop leakage of hand guns to the criminals is to eliminate them totally

I would be fully trustworthy to have an armed thermo-nuclear device in my apartment. I would look after it for the government and be totally responsible about it's storage.

The gov wont play ball because of the risk of it getting into the wrong hands

Same with legal hand guns , they get stolen or sold or pawned and the next minute they are in circulation

It's a cost/benefit analysis where the cost is lots of dead americans and the benefit is people having a different kind of gun to shoot for fun

75% of americans are white and many of the hand gun victims are black - I think this affects the degree to which americans generally, care about the problem, or even see it as a problem

Scratch most problems in American society and the race thing is lurking not far below the surface - and it only comes out in private