SEAL training range will no longer show Muslim woman as target

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I remember the little girl target with the advanced physics book in MIB that Will Smith shot. No uproar about that, was there?

• [in a shooting range, confronted with numerous menacing-looking targets, Edwards shoots a cardboard little girl]
  
• Zed: May I ask why you felt little Tiffany deserved to die?
  
• James Edwards: Well, she was the only one that actually seemed dangerous at the time, sir.
  
• Zed: How'd you come to that conclusion?
  
• James Edwards: Well, first I was gonna pop this guy hanging from the street light, and I realized, y'know, he's just working out. I mean, how would I feel if somebody come runnin' in the gym and bust me in my #### while I'm on the treadmill? Then I saw this snarling beast guy, and I noticed he had a tissue in his hand, and I'm realizing, y'know, he's not snarling, he's sneezing. Y'know, ain't no real threat there. Then I saw little Tiffany. I'm thinking, y'know, eight-year-old white girl, middle of the ghetto, bunch of monsters, this time of night with quantum physics books? She about to start some ####, Zed. She's about eight years old, those books are WAY too advanced for her. If you ask me, I'd say she's up to something. And to be honest, I'd appreciate it if you eased up off my back about it.
  
• [pause]
  
• James Edwards: Or do I owe her an apology?
  
• [pause]
  
• James Edwards: That's a good shot though...
  

[slim 1,533]

As a muslim myself, I am not the least bit offended by this. There are enemies in all countries and ethnicities and that's important to recognize. I'm quite sure this was not the only target...

Muslims never seemed to have a problem killing each other. I guess it's only bad when some other religious infidels do it.

I rather be a tree huger than a gun user.

I can completely respect that.

Next time someone breaks into your house and starts raping your daughter in front of you, call a tree hugger - Not someone with a gun.

I remember the little girl target with the advanced physics book in MIB that Will Smith shot. No uproar about that, was there?

That was the first thing I thought of when seeing this post!

"My man over there just doin some pullups."

[unlockingsky 94]

i think they need to replace those with a picture of uscis incompetent managers.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Muslims never seemed to have a problem killing each other. I guess it's only bad when some other religious infidels do it.

I can completely respect that.

Next time someone breaks into your house and starts raping your daughter in front of you, call a tree hugger - Not someone with a gun.

That was the first thing I thought of when seeing this post!

"My man over there just doin some pullups."

And if more good Muslims like you would speak up and out about the bad Muslims, I bet our perceptions would change quickly.

[slim 1,533]

Religion has always been the silliest, albeit most common, reason to kill people.

Every religion agrees on that!

[Darnell 8,479]

These folk have a nice Agenda: Council on American-Islamic Relations.

I say #### the PC-ness of everything - suggest YOU decide to live fully as an American, instead

[Captain Oates 911]

As a muslim myself, I am not the least bit offended by this. There are enemies in all countries and ethnicities and that's important to recognize. I'm quite sure this was not the only target...

I find that most interesting and confusing.

If they were shooting at pictures of Mexican children swimming the Rio Grande, I would have thought that would be pretty offensive.

I know a number of people who say they would do that (for real)

Where do we draw the line ?

[Ban Hammer 13,554]

I find that most interesting and confusing.

If they were shooting at pictures of Mexican children swimming the Rio Grande, I would have thought that would be pretty offensive.

I know a number of people who say they would do that (for real)

Where do we draw the line ?

a pic of people swimming the rio grande don't pose an imminent threat, therefore it would not likely be used in a training environment.

[JohnR! 5,495]

And if more good Muslims like you would speak up and out about the bad Muslims, I bet our perceptions would change quickly.

Optionally, one can learn about Islam on one's own terms and arrive at the same conclusion.

[Captain Oates 911]

a pic of people swimming the rio grande don't pose an imminent threat, therefore it would not likely be used in a training environment.

Not in a military training environment I agree

..and that is what the thread is about

However, I was wondering what the Moslem member's view on ethnic/religious targets was generally, as I find it v interesting that they are not offended

I am quite hard to offend (er-hum) but i think i would be offended if they were shooting at effigies of Yorkshire atheists

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Look like commies to me, and therefore, obvious threats to the American way of life.

[sandinista! 1,816]

I'm still a total noob when it comes to guns and target practice, so I don't get why ethnic or racial or religious details are necessary for training exercise targets. Would training with purple or orange armed anthropomorphic figures leave you less prepared and affect one's training?

[Ban Hammer 13,554]

I'm still a total noob when it comes to guns and target practice, so I don't get why ethnic or racial or religious details are necessary for training exercise targets. Would training with purple or orange armed anthropomorphic figures leave you less prepared and affect one's training?

see my post #4. you train as you fight. so if you're used to shooting at some whacky colored targets, yes, it may well affect your ability when it comes to the real thing.

[Captain Oates 911]

see my post #4. you train as you fight. so if you're used to shooting at some whacky colored targets, yes, it may well affect your ability when it comes to the real thing.

I can shoot rabbits and pigeons on the same day

[slim 1,533]

I'm still a total noob when it comes to guns and target practice, so I don't get why ethnic or racial or religious details are necessary for training exercise targets. Would training with purple or orange armed anthropomorphic figures leave you less prepared and affect one's training?

Simply put, yes.

Combat subjects individuals to extreme levels of stress and the human body's response to stressors can be manipulated and improved by practice. Average people are ill-prepared for combat and thus military units train extensively to simulate conditions associated with combat.

The psychological and physiological responses of "average" people sometimes must be "beaten out" of soldiers in order for them to execute their duties in an efficient (and safe) manner. Most people don't want to shoot other people. Most men don't want to shoot women. A target such as the one above does two things - it "tricks" the brain into overcoming the "taboo" of shooting women and it also adds one more subconscious memory and physiological response to encountering a threat. The shooter doesn't see the target as a woman. Nor a "Muslim" woman. She is simply a threat. And threats must be dealt with immediately and with overwhelming violence of action.

Elite tactical operators are "ice cold" when it comes to shoot/don't shoot because they've run through drills like this a million times before ever engaging a real target. If you have to take the time to think about the level of threat the target "really" is to you or your team, it could be too late.

One of the classic ambush triggers run all over Africa in the post-colonial independence days was to place a five-year-old kid in the middle of the trail. Anyone in their right mind would stop and ask the kid if they're OK, where's the mother, etc. But, since it's war, by the time they did that, they were all dead. Stopping at that point in the trail placed them squarely in the kill zone and they were annihilated. Word spread. After a time, whenever a kid was encountered on the trail the kid was "unfortunately" caught in the cross fire of a counter attack.

The "trick" in these scenarios is being able to detach ones humanity from the mission. Shooting at orange blobs - while still quite fun - will not mentally prepare you for combat the way shooting an armed attacker - even if she's just on paper - will.

For a really interesting read on the whole subject, check out Lt. Col Dave Grossman's series "On Combat" and "On Killing." He's done a ton of research on the subject and he even travels around the country doing seminars and answering questions and stuff. You might want to go!