PA boy taken in Egypt

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

There is no bilateral treaty in place between Egypt and the United States dealing with international parental abduction. This mother in PA pleas for help to find her son. He will be 12 years old on July 17th.

Full story and video package

[Mithra 1,185]

This type of thing is always sad. I've been following this story on FB for some time now. I hope this man is able to be reunited with his boys for good one day soon.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/boston-father-fights-bring-children-home-egypt-alleged/story?id=15224169

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

I wonder how many cases there are like this each year. I hadn't heard about the one from Boston. Thanks for posting the link. I think in these cases there is always two sides of the story and we don't get to hear the Egyptian side of it. In the case I posted the father kidnapped the son taking advantage of the mother's willingness to share custody. In the case you posted it was the Egyptian mother who took her two boys to Egypt. I wonder if there is anything that can be done by our two governments to negotiate a treaty about parental custody in the near future.

[Mithra 1,185]

In the case of the Boston father, he was granted custody of his boys so I'm thinking perhaps the ex wife didn't care for that and took it upon herself to guarantee custody in Egypt. I don't know why people are so selfish and don't think of what's best for the children. They only care about what's best for themselves. But you're right, we don't hear both sides of the story. I knew of one case where an Egyptian father took his small daughter to Egypt but left his sons here with their mother. That was puzzling to me.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Mithra

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

The article said the wife was angered by the findings in the court documents and the father being granted sole custody. You're probably right in what she wanted. That is puzzling about the other situation where the father only took the daughter and not the boys. For the children broken families are often difficult to navigate. I can somewhat relate to what some of the children are going through having been kidnapped by my father for nine years, but I can't imagine growing up in a completely foreign culture from what I know at that age.

[Mithra 1,185]

These types of cases make it very hard (for some people) to develop trust in a foreign born spouse to take children to visit family overseas. My ex husband has taken my sons to visit his family overseas on numerous occasions. He never gave me reason to believe he would not bring them home. I'm very thankful that, although we're no longer together, we have a high level of trust for one another and we are able to put our differences aside to do what is best for our children.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Custody battles often turn extremely ugly, even when the parents are living in the same country. Unfortunately, governments (including the U.S. government) usually side with their own citizens when it's an international battle - no matter what court orders mandate in the other country. Remember the Elian Gonzalez case ? So many people here were trying to justify keeping the child in the U.S. (yes, the removal at gunpoint was disgusting and horrible.) There are many Americans who have kidnapped children from foreign custodial parents. It's all so very sad for the children caught in the middle.

It's very nice to hear of cases like yours, Mithra, where the parents cooperate with each other to do what's best for their children. It's a case in point: be very selective who you have children with, or you may face a lifetime of heartbreak.

[msheesha 548]

I also think it's a case in point about being selective about who you are having children with. The woman's comment - "he wants to turn him into a good little Muslim" indicates at least a lack of awareness/agreement before having children about what religion the child would be raised in. If the picture they showed on the video is the father, his "prayer spot/bump" is obvious. I wonder how much conversation/understanding/research about religious beliefs/attitudes, etc occurred before having the child.

It's all reminding me a little bit of that other thread and the woman who can't find her Egyptian guy anymore and who doesn't want a woman calling his phone because of "cultural reasons"....

It's also reminding me of Katie Holmes and Tom Cruise -- Scientology vs. Catholicism... was that not discussed before Suri was born?

[Mithra 1,185]

I agree, religion plays a huge role in many of these cases. I don't understand having children with someone whose religion you strongly disagree with. Why even marry someone if you dislike/disagree with their religion? You don't have to share a religion but you should be able to agree with which religion you will raise your child(ren). And stick to your agreement even if the marriage fails.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

I was thinking about the TomKat thing too with this thread.

It's great when a couple that splits can work it out amicably like in your case Mirtha.

This couple I work with split after 15 years of marriage recently and the husband is devastated and was blindsided. They have too preteen's who are at the Grandparents currently. Many people I work with that have known the couple for years didn't see it coming either. They thought the couple was secure but the wife decided to up and end it.

A couple can have all the conversations in the world and agree to having kids, and how many they want, and raising the kids a certain way but things can also change one day. It would be ideal if things worked out but WoM is right that custody battles sometimes turn for the worse. One never really knows what's going on in the mind of someone. My parents grew up together and were high school sweethearts when they married. They had the same religion and background but most said Dad went away to the Vietnam War and didn't return the same. The family was torn apart and the custody battle was one of the ugliest. Mom says she didn't see what was coming either. Kind of like some of these cases with the trans-national spouses.

What gets me about these cases is doesn't Egypt have percautions from allowing a parent to take a child out of the country without the other parents permission? Why doesn't the United States have the same thing?

[Cathi 5,757]

The story of the PA Mom is so sad, I cannot imagine how helpless she feels. My ex husband and I had an amicable divorce and shared custody (we are both in the US)of our teen boys. As much of a horrible husband that he was, he treated me like dirt. I would never deny my children seeing him. I agree with others who have posted, why do parents feel the need to be so selfish? Why can't the well being of this little boy be first and foremost with his father? That Mom has spent 150k of her own money to find her boy and Washington hasn't done a thing to try to help...just sad

[del-2-5-2014 1,339]

Custody battles often turn extremely ugly, even when the parents are living in the same country. Unfortunately, governments (including the U.S. government) usually side with their own citizens when it's an international battle - no matter what court orders mandate in the other country. Remember the Elian Gonzalez case ? So many people here were trying to justify keeping the child in the U.S. (yes, the removal at gunpoint was disgusting and horrible.) There are many Americans who have kidnapped children from foreign custodial parents. It's all so very sad for the children caught in the middle.

It's very nice to hear of cases like yours, Mithra, where the parents cooperate with each other to do what's best for their children. It's a case in point: be very selective who you have children with, or you may face a lifetime of heartbreak.

Well said.

The children will turn 18 one day adn then what memory will they have?

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

People are sometimes selfish when they are hurting themselves. When my Mom left my Dad he was hurt but she had good reason. At first he let her have custody but took all the money in the divorce. So she was broke house wife raising four kids. Then he remarried and the new wife didn't want to pay the child support so they came back for the kids. In a divorce you can go back for the kids but not the money. They took the older two first and then came back for my younger brother and I. Mom still had joint custody but they moved four hours away from her so she had to drive that on the weekend to see us. Then to punish her further they'd take the kids to the movies and ice cream while she waiting outside our house to pick up her kids. They'd take two cars and one would stay with the kids while the other drove around the block in the neighborhood to see if she was still waiting. She couldn't enforce her rights as a parent unless she hired an officer as well. Then one day they up and moved us across the United States without telling her and we didn't see her for nearly a decade.

I can also tell you what the kids may be thinking that have been kidnapped by a parent as having been there myself.

They see the letters and birthday presents sent to them being returned and don't understand what Mommy (or Daddy) did wrong or what they as the child did wrong. They don't understand why when Mommy (or Daddy) calls they can't talk to them until their older brothers sneak them a call from that parent and get into trouble. They think helplessly where is Mommy (or Daddy)? One the first day of school they cry in their new classroom because they want their real Mom and can't explain to their new homeroom teacher that the woman that just dropped them off wasn't their Mom. They wonder everyday for years why doesn't Mommy (or Daddy) move heaven and earth to come get me? Then as they get older and the years pass they wonder how Mommy (or Daddy) are doing. Does Mommy (or Daddy) miss them? What is Mommy (or Daddy's) life like now? Is Mommy (or Daddy) still alive? They wonder about their extended family on Mommy (or Daddy's) side and if they have any because the parent they're with doesn't talk about them at all. They go through sadness, abandonment and anger at the missing parent. They try not to believe all the horrible things the parent(s) they're with says about the missing parent because that's not what they remember even though they were so young when they were taken. They wonder if they will make it out alive themselves living with their parent(s). Maybe some are lucky and have a very loving home with the parent that took the child(ren) but I think most of the time in cases like these it's about control and hurting the other parent in the one way they know that will deeply hurt them.

I can think of a few dark reasons that father took the daughter and not the sons. Maybe he wanted to sexually molest her? Maybe he wanted to make sure she wasn't raised as a Western ####### like he thought the Mother was and he wasn't worried about the boys as much? Maybe he wanted to sell her as a child bride for fifty camels to a cousin or an older man in the Gulf countries. Maybe he knew it would hurt the Mom the most to take the daughter and not the sons or maybe he thought it was a good compromise if he raised the daughter and the Mom got to raise the sons? Maybe those ideas are completely ridiculous but who really knows until the child is older and can speak for themselves. And in some cases it will take years to understand and unravel and be able to verbalize what happened to them as a child.

I wish it was a better world for the children and people thought of them first before themselves too.

[Mithra 1,185]

I'm thinking the father wanted to protect the girl from her mother's lifestyle and American life, in general. He probably wasn't as concerned with the boys because they don't possess a hymen. One child is easier to take overseas so that may be way he only took the girl. He may have taken the child he felt needed protecting the most. To be fair to him, the mother isn't someone I'd want in charge of my kids. The twist is the woman got pregnant right before the husband took off and ended up having another girl. True story. I wonder if the guy even knows he has another daughter.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

There is no bilateral treaty in place between Egypt and the United States dealing with international parental abduction. This mother in PA pleas for help to find her son. He will be 12 years old on July 17th.

Full story and video package

and you are shocked ..why? This happens all the time