THE MANDATE IS CONSTITUTIONAL

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As good as America is, it can be better. Immigrants bring diversity of thought, they help the rest of us do a better job of thinking out of the box when it comes to solving problems. It is only natural that in any country (or any organization) a certain form of thinking sets in and becomes difficult to dislodge. This is why bringing in outsiders (immigrants, or in the case of organizations consultants) works to break the mold and help us all think of solutions we may not have thought of on our own.

This is not something to be feared. It is to be welcomed.

So put aside your socialism labels and just listen. They may have something useful to say, you never know.

[JohnR! 5,495]

I long for America to be like Canada in some ways. That doesn't mean that I don't appreciate America for what it is or what it is trying to be. It doesn't mean that Canada's perfect, and it doesn't mean that America's a wasteland. People always react SO defensively when someone asks me if I prefer America to Canada and I say no. I love both countries for very different reasons, but here, if you don't automatically say America's the best place you've ever been and you can't imagine living anywhere else ... then you're just a whiner who should leave, anyway.

It's crazy.

I am with you on that one. It seems that for some, loving one place must be translated into disdain for another. There is no reason you can't be a Canadian - or any other nationality for that matter - who lives in America and loves both countries.

This sophomoric debate as to which place is better is just an exercise in futility. I love America and would not want to live elsewhere, but I love visiting the countries where I lived for each has something special, not the least of which are the friends I left behind.

As someone pointed out, there are people in every country who are not as worldly and educated as the crowd here. I have had the privilege of living in some different places in my life and people are just people everywhere.

In GB, I recall the absolute disbelief at my dentist's secretary when I called for a teeth cleaning appointment. Her disbelieve turned into outrage when I insisted on having it done, to no avail. You would think I had asked her for her first born. I can also recall her asking me during one of my visits, if I knew Paris Hilton or Anna Nicole Smith. Apparently, in their psyche, affluent Americans must all live in Beverly Hills. I have also heard a lot of criticism about America's (in)famous 2nd amendment. Ironically I engaged in a discussion with someone who claimed such an episode would never happen in GB on the eve of the Dunblane massacre, where the daughter of a good friend attended school at the time.

In Switzerland, by comparison I found a system of socialized medicine which is the model from which the US should seek inspiration. Their doctors are knowledgeable, their hospitals on a par with American hospitals and their dentists actually believe in preventive care! Perish the thought.

Friends who live in Japan tell me their health care system is more than satisfactory and efficient.

All in all, there is no reasons why you can't love several countries, each in your own way. If you believe you must love one at the expense of others, chances are you have missed out on a lot of good things.

[JohnR! 5,495]

As good as America is, it can be better. Immigrants bring diversity of thought, they help the rest of us do a better job of thinking out of the box when it comes to solving problems. It is only natural that in any country (or any organization) a certain form of thinking sets in and becomes difficult to dislodge. This is why bringing in outsiders (immigrants, or in the case of organizations consultants) works to break the mold and help us all think of solutions we may not have thought of on our own.

This is not something to be feared. It is to be welcomed.

So put aside your socialism labels and just listen. They may have something useful to say, you never know.

Absolutely. The one thing most foreigners can't understand is that we always believe there to be room for improvement. That is why it would appear to the less aware that America always does the right thing after it has tried everything else. (the quote is Churchill's). That exemplifies evolution. You keep trying until you get it right, and that is what makes America unique, IMHO.

[Teddy B 17,252]

As good as America is, it can be better. Immigrants bring diversity of thought, they help the rest of us do a better job of thinking out of the box when it comes to solving problems. It is only natural that in any country (or any organization) a certain form of thinking sets in and becomes difficult to dislodge. This is why bringing in outsiders (immigrants, or in the case of organizations consultants) works to break the mold and help us all think of solutions we may not have thought of on our own.

This is not something to be feared. It is to be welcomed.

So put aside your socialism labels and just listen. They may have something useful to say, you never know.

So says he who opened this thread with this:

F U TEA PARTY!!!

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The one thing most foreigners can't understand is that we always believe there to be room for improvement.

If one observes the American political process for a short period of time and doesn't take the long view, it is easy to see how one may make that mistake.

So says he who opened this thread with this:

I like to mess with you guys.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Habitual Offender

[Teddy B 17,252]

Absolutely. The one thing most foreigners can't understand is that we always believe there to be room for improvement. That is why it would appear to the less aware that America always does the right thing after it has tried everything else. (the quote is Churchill's). That exemplifies evolution. You keep trying until you get it right, and that is what makes America unique, IMHO.

Well said!

To add to that the very basis of our constitution does not allow for quick and drastic change within, there are many checks and balances to keep things afloat, this was by no means a mistake, it was done purposely.

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In Switzerland, by comparison I found a system of socialized medicine which is the model from which the US should seek inspiration.

Socialized medicine in Switzerland? Are you sure?

From Forbes:

Features of the Swiss health system

Swiss citizens buy insurance for themselves; there are no employer-sponsored or government-run insurance programs. Hence, insurance prices are transparent to the beneficiary. The government defines the minimum benefit package that qualifies for the mandate. Critically, all packages require beneficiaries to pick up a portion of the costs of their care (deductibles and coinsurance) in order to incentivize their frugality.

The government subsidizes health care for the poor on a graduated basis, with the goal of preventing individuals from spending more than 10 percent of their income on insurance. But because people are still on the hook for a significant component of the costs, they often opt for cheaper packages; in 2003, 42% of Swiss citizens chose high-deductible plans (i.e., plans with significant cost-sharing features). Those who wish to acquire supplemental coverage are free to do so on their own.

99.5% of Swiss citizens have health insurance. Because they can choose between plans from nearly 100 different private insurance companies, insurers must compete on price and service, helping to curb health care inflation.

Sounds kind of familiar.

In important ways, the Swiss system resembles that of Massachusetts and PPACA. The Swiss have an individual mandate. The government defines the minimum benefit package, which has been subject to expansion from special-interest lobbying, and is more comprehensive and less consumer-driven than it could be. The government has enacted Medicare-style price controls for hospital and physician reimbursement. Insurers must charge similar rates to the young and old (“community rating”), must cover pre-existing conditions, and must operate as non-profit entities. Princeton economist Uwe Reinhardt describes Switzerland as “a de facto cartel of insurers and health care practitioners who transact with one another in a tight web of government regulations.”

Edited June 29, 2012 by Habitual Offender

[JohnR! 5,495]

Socialized medicine in Switzerland? Are you sure?

From Forbes:

Features of the Swiss health system

Swiss citizens buy insurance for themselves; there are no employer-sponsored or government-run insurance programs. Hence, insurance prices are transparent to the beneficiary. The government defines the minimum benefit package that qualifies for the mandate. Critically, all packages require beneficiaries to pick up a portion of the costs of their care (deductibles and coinsurance) in order to incentivize their frugality.

The government subsidizes health care for the poor on a graduated basis, with the goal of preventing individuals from spending more than 10 percent of their income on insurance. But because people are still on the hook for a significant component of the costs, they often opt for cheaper packages; in 2003, 42% of Swiss citizens chose high-deductible plans (i.e., plans with significant cost-sharing features). Those who wish to acquire supplemental coverage are free to do so on their own.

99.5% of Swiss citizens have health insurance. Because they can choose between plans from nearly 100 different private insurance companies, insurers must compete on price and service, helping to curb health care inflation.

Sounds kind of familiar.

It does sound familiar. I used the term 'socialized' medicine for Switzerland because that is the term being used for the NHC bill in the US. Furthermore 'socialized' has a dark vibe to it. People dig it...

It looks like a model upon which we could improve...

Edited June 29, 2012 by Gegel

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It does sound familiar. I used the term 'socialized' medicine for Switzerland because that is the term being used for the NHC bill in the US.

So the RWNs use the term incorrectly, betraying both their lack of knowledge of socialism and lack of awareness of the ACA... and you decide to appropriate the term? In my opinion, not a good idea.

[JohnR! 5,495]

So the RWNs use the term incorrectly, betraying both their lack of knowledge of socialism and lack of awareness of the ACA... and you decide to appropriate the term? In my opinion, not a good idea.

You need to talk to them in a manner they can understand, IMHO.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Gegel

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You need to talk to them in a manner they can understand, IMHO.

Yeah, with lots of expletives and obscenities. I know.

[rocks 494]

Certainly if you long for America to be like Brittain, then you must feel sorry that you left your home country, no? If Brittain was/is so much better and so far ahead of America in so many ways, why were you not able to persuade your wife to move to such a beauitiful oasis with you? I have friends that live in Brittain and they don't speak nearly as high about it as you do. They tell me that they are over taxed and the social services are lacking in a very big way. One of my friends who lives in Hull was pushed off for an operation twice, delaying it at least a month each time, because he wasn't considered a priority, he lived in terrible pain for that time and couldn't work.

You sound like a socialist, you dislike America because it is not what YOU want it to be. America is not a socialist country and hopefully never will be. If you liked England so much, why did you leave? It's funny that you relate the Nazi flag to America, and denounce it, when in fact the Nazi flag is the original symbol of socialism, the very thing you say you want America to be.

Where is Brittain?

[/b]

That was Prince Philip.

that type of attitude is disrspectful and ignorant.

Pot, kettle.

As good as America is, it can be better. Immigrants bring diversity of thought, they help the rest of us do a better job of thinking out of the box when it comes to solving problems. It is only natural that in any country (or any organization) a certain form of thinking sets in and becomes difficult to dislodge. This is why bringing in outsiders (immigrants, or in the case of organizations consultants) works to break the mold and help us all think of solutions we may not have thought of on our own.

This is not something to be feared. It is to be welcomed.

So put aside your socialism labels and just listen. They may have something useful to say, you never know.

Exactly. How can being more culturally diverse be a bad thing? There are too many xenophobes on here.

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There are too many xenophobes on here.

I'm pretty sure you were yucking it up laughing about brown savages wearing loin clothes on another thread so I'm not sure you should be pointing any fingers.

[JohnR! 5,495]

I'm pretty sure you were yucking it up laughing about brown savages wearing loin clothes on another thread so I'm not sure you should be pointing any fingers.

In all fairness, not everyone appreciates the Chippendales...

[Captain Oates 911]

I would never expect anyone that was born and raised a citizen of another country to think anything other than their country is the best, it's a natural way to feel, it's pride in who you are. What bothers me is when people come here from other countries and try to make America into the country they left. It doesn't work that way and quite frankly that type of attitude is disrspectful and ignorant.

I have learned an often lot about different views and policies since meeting my Canadian wife, and my views have changed quite a bit in the last few years because of it. But I still love what America stands for, take great pride in calling it home, and would never try to change what has made this country, in my opinion, the greatest in history.

By the way, Happy Canada Day!

You don't get it - the Brits on here are not saying Britain is better - they are saying that socialized health is better.

Many are US citizens and want the best for the US as they have made their lives here with their families. They would be un-patriotic to the US if they knew of a better life for the US and then didn't promote it. That would be like your doctor knowing of a life saving pill for you, and keeping quiet.

What you don't realize is that the USA has NEVER beaten it's own path forward, it has always been dragged screaming and complaining into the future by other first world countries

All the advances in US society have been bitterly resisted by the right wingers, plenty examples of whom are alive and posting on VJ today

If the right wingers had prevailed, there would be no social security for seniors. No medicare. Slavery would still be alive and you would be able to buy Oprah for $50. Sarah Palin would not be allowed to vote and Barack's mother would have been jailed for kissing a black man.

Right wingers should reconsider their positions in the light of this. Do they really want the USA to look like that ?

(I KNOW that some do)

That is an appeal to reason which is bound to fail and so I am with Aneuren Bevan and now it's unarmed civil war in which every right winger must be crushed by any legal means.

My mother, was one of these not-rich conservatives who fawn before the rich, and she was merciless (except with her own)

She was a part-time tea lady in engineering works and yet she voted against liberal politics and gave her vote to her oppressors who treated her like slave! Of course she accepted hundreds of thousands FOR HERSELF when she was in need of State aid

Its the same in the US and my wife's mother is a right winger living on next to nothing. She is from the South and wants to make sure black people get nothing - she is prepared to do herself out of benefits to achieve that

I find that incomprehensible. Turkeys voting for Thanksgiving.

Take my son and kill him in a stupid foreign war - I look forward to being proud as I see his body wrapped in the flag

Repeal all social advances that might benefit me so long as it makes sure black people don't gain anything

I will never understand these people and I will never be able to change their twisted mind-set, and so the only rational response is to beat on them harder than they beat on us until they are at least driven into a permanent minority

Treating the sick without checking their wallet first was a concept that was alive and well in Palestine 2000 years ago, and its ironic that the biggest flag wavers for jesus H christ in America, are people who work every day against the social policies he advocated

ps he wasn't a Brit

Edited June 29, 2012 by Ashud Cocoa