Queen shakes hands with IRA terrorist

[JohnR! 5,495]

Usual lack of facts - but those would invite an informed response - so I can see why you wouldn't want to put those forward

It is no secret that America was a place whither many prosecuted for their religion were sent.

The British crown did not manage to execute all those who did not conform, many were deported to the colonies.

[rocks 494]

It is no secret that America was a place whither many prosecuted for their religion were sent.

The British crown did not manage to execute all those who did not conform, many were deported to the colonies.

What about the Huguenots? Did the British kill all of them too? Or sorry are we just sticking with bashing the British English?

[Captain Oates 911]

It is no secret that America was a place whither many prosecuted for their religion were sent.

The British crown did not manage to execute all those who did not conform, many were deported to the colonies.

Most were a bunch of convicted thieves and that explains the emergence of the Republican party from their offspring

However, this was not an expulsion of foreigners from England, people planted there by by foreign power

Pretty poor attempt at a comparator

[JohnR! 5,495]

However, this was not an expulsion of foreigners from England, people planted there by by foreign power

I am afraid you are incorrect. The only thing foreign about them was that their religion had been considered passe by the monarch and they were no longer desired in the country.

[Captain Oates 911]

I am afraid you are incorrect. The only thing foreign about them was that their religion had been considered passe by the monarch and they were no longer desired in the country.

Eh ? they were not foreigners in England - they were English !

The English deported the English - get it ?

I know it's early but you really must wake up !

Most were CRIMINALS - Felons in the quaint language of the time which is still current in the USA

[JohnR! 5,495]

Eh ? they were not foreigners in England - they were English !

The English deported the English - get it ?

I know it's early but you really must wake up !

Most were CRIMINALS - Felons in the quaint language of the time which is still current in the USA

Ok. It is your opinion and you're entitled to it.

[rocks 494]

http://books.google.com/books?id=7EkBAAAAQAAJ

Perhaps you should read about the Catholics, lovely people.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Anyone born in the British Colones was British

Except the slaves. And the Native Americans. And the Hindus. And on and on and on. Of course they were considered “British subjects,” but certainly not “British” - that idea alone should tell you why there were so many rebellions and why the sun has now set on the British Empire. A superiority complex is not enough to hold colonies full of people who resent you for oppressing them. “Telling” people what they are is not the same as convincing them.

The Americans didn't' revolt - it was the British colonials in America who revolted

Many people fought on the side of the Patriots in the American Revolution - not just no-longer-loyal ex-British subjects. The French played a huge role, the Dutch and the Spanish also lent a hand. There were also Native American tribes who joined the fray (actually, on both sides.)

There’s an old saying: be nice to people on your way going up, ‘cause it’s the same people you’re going to meet on your way coming down. This has been a hard lesson for Britain, which always saw its tiny island as the center of the universe, and all of its colonies as “subjects.” Certainly you can understand that English people didn’t like to be ruled from Rome, nor would they want to be ruled from Berlin, or from Washington, D.C. for that matter.

They have been revolting ever since

Ha. Probably even more so, now that you've joined us

What a Brit hater you are to suggest that England invented racism and brought it to America,

Why would I hate the Brits ? That would be hating my own family and a piece of myself. Acknowledging history is not “hating,” although they do say the truth hurts. There are plenty of accomplishments for British people to be proud of - why get so butt-hurt about the unflattering parts of your history ? I never said (or even “insinuated”) that England “invented” racism and colonialism; I said they brought it here.

The Arabs in Saudi Arabia still have slavery and they don't come any more racist. The whole history of East Africa is Arab slave trading. That's why Obama's middle name is Hussein.

When I referred to 'losers' I was talking about the Palestinians

I would agree that horrible racism exists in Saudi Arabia and many Arab countries. There is racism in a lot of places in the world. But it’s quite irrelevant to this topic about the Irish and the Troubles and English colonization. Try to focus.

England abolished slavery BEFORE the USA

England had votes for women BEFORE the USA

England has had universal health care since 1948 and the USA is still struggling to introduce it

That’s nice. But it’s England that brought slavery to this continent in the first place, as well as the idea that women and persons of color shouldn’t have the right to vote.

And the reason that England decided to shuck off slavery earlier than the U.S. is because slavery was no longer so useful for England - with the American Revolution, it had lost almost all of its massive plantation system in the American colonies, which depended on slave labor. Agriculture in England and most other British colonies outside the "New World" never relied on the mass importation of African slaves. After 1776, the slave trade only impacted Britain's small holdings in the Caribbean and Central America. The British government was not motivated by altruism; it hoped that stopping the trade might damage American economic interests, and weaken their new rival.

I think the health care system in the U.S. is a mess. That doesn’t mean I endorse any of the nationalized health care initiatives that have been proposed. But it’s off topic, anyway.

The discussing was whether the Northern Irish, who have been there 400 years, should be selectively deported. My point was that The USA is a direct parallel in that a foreign population moved to another land hundreds of years ago and should be allowed to stay

Now you’re back on topic. Again, I never said or implied or even “plus-one’d” any post saying that the Northern Irish should be deported (that was another poster.) I don’t believe in ethnic cleansing. Those people have moved to Ireland; they should accept being Irish citizens.

Even you should be allowed to stay

Well thank you ! That was very gracious of you, as a foreign-born Brit, to offer your stamp of approval that I be “allowed” to remain in my country, retaining the very rights I’ve held from birth as a native-born American citizen.

[rocks 494]

I never said (or even “insinuated”) that England “invented” racism and colonialism; I said they brought it here.

Actually the Portuguese thought they would get to America with the slaves first, but both Portugal and Britain were beaten by the Dutch. You really should learn your history.

[Captain Oates 911]

Except the slaves. And the Native Americans. And the Hindus. And on and on and on. Of course they were considered “British subjects,” but certainly not “British” - that idea alone should tell you why there were so many rebellions and why the sun has now set on the British Empire. A superiority complex is not enough to hold colonies full of people who resent you for oppressing them. “Telling” people what they are is not the same as convincing them.

Are you suggesting that the American revolution was carried out by Hindus and American Indians ?

It was the people of the BRITISH colonies - most of whom did not wear loin cloths

re the Brit haters like yourself:

If these people have such a hatred of Britain, why are they going through hell in the back of a truck to try and live there ?

Could it be that the British have achieved what they never will, and they want to be part of it ?

If they want to leave their fly-blown land of outside toilets and come to the sceptred isle, they should lose their hatred of the British first

..and those who go to America and settle down into that society like a flea on a dog, should recognize the special relationship between Britain and the USA - and try be a part of it

[rocks 494]

Are you suggesting that the American revolution was carried out by Hindus and American Indians ?

That just made me choke on my cereal!

[Captain Oates 911]

That just made me choke on my cereal!

Wife of should keep it short as it gets so Gingrich moon base after 2 sentences

[JohnR! 5,495]

What about the Huguenots?

How about them Yankees? :rofl:

On a serious note, we are discussing history, from the perspective of winners and losers, with a mindset of a few centuries ahead.

We cant justify what happened anymore than we can deny it has happened.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Gegel

[Captain Oates 911]

The hugenots were insecure - they really had tiny-nots

What the heck the mini-nots have to do with Belfast is a mystery to me

In the British Army kill list for South Armagh (which was not long enough), nobody was reported as being shot while they were wearing a loin cloth or a feather headdress

Talk about pinging off into space

Edited June 28, 2012 by Ashud Cocoa

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

No, clearly you don't understand what being "British" is. I am British, not English.

I don’t believe I ever claimed that you, personally, were “English.” But if you can quote me where I said it, I will apologize for insulting you.

According to the census. Your opinion is more educated than the census?

As I have told you three times now, the data is from the census. Go look it up.

Um… what ? Where did I say anything of the sort, or try to deny census figures ? I simply acknowledged the source of the info - “according to Wiki.”

You say your figures are from the census, but you state in your quote stat on African Americans that the source is the CIA World Fact Book, and you don’t include the year. This is why links are so useful - and it’s standard procedure to give the link when directly quoting a source. I don’t know why you keep refusing to do it.

Quote

Less: A smaller amount of; not as much.

Sorry to break this to you, but (from the definitive authority, the Oxford Dictionary):

Use

fewer

if you’re referring to people or things in the plural

(e.g. houses, newspapers, dogs, students, children)

. For example:

People these days are buying

fewer newspapers

.

Fewer students

are opting to study science-related subjects.

Fewer

than thirty

children

each year develop the disease.

Use

less

when you’re referring to something that can’t be counted or doesn’t have a plural

(e.g. money, air, time, music, rain).

For example:

It’s a better job but they pay you

less money.

People want to spend

less time

in traffic jams.

Ironically, when I’m on tour, I listen to

less music.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/less-or-fewer

(You may thank my half-Irish father and my mostly French mother for being such sticklers on proper usage of the English language. And also Strunk & White.)

As I have told you three times now, the data is from the census. Go look it up.

LOL. The burden of proof is on the claimant. And I didn’t dispute any census figures (you are invited to quote me if you find where I did;) I just asked for the link so I could see which year, etc. Again, I don't know why you don't want to link your source.

I meet Americans all the time that claim to be "Irish" yet they don't have any link to Ireland at all. They don't know if they are Irish, they just like to think they are. This is common knowledge.

Well obviously, if you don’t know the history of Ireland, then you can’t possibly be of Irish descent - it's common knowledge that this information is transmitted via DNA.

Thank you for this anecdotal evidence - it has proved without a shadow of a doubt that your theory can be extrapolated to the overall population and therefore be considered “Fact.”

So you thought you'd compare apples and oranges?

It's not a holiday, find it in this list.

Notice how the list says "England, Northern Ireland and Wales", not just England? Britian...

Perhaps you should refer to the Oxford Dictionary more often. Holidays are simply designated days that have a special significance for certain groups. Those groups could be defined by ethnicity, or religion, or nation, or culture. Holidays can be “official” or “unofficial,” (meaning they may or may not be designated "Bank Holidays” and/or involve a general closure of business.) St. Patrick’s Day in the U.S. is an example of a holiday during which businesses and government offices generally do not close, but it’s still considered a holiday by the people who celebrate it.

When did I say catholics were only of Irish descent? Please point that out. What you said was (Can't believe I have to show this to you again when I just quoted you)

You claimed that I had “insinuated” that the % of Catholics in the U.S. was more "significant" than the % of Protestants (which I didn’t even mention until you brought it up) as if that was some sort of evidence of the numbers of Americans of Irish and British (or English) descent, respectively. That’s what I was responding to, and I quoted you in my answer. Being Catholic or Protestant is not a reliable indicator of ethnicity in the U.S.

You think that the small amount of Irish catholics really care about Northern Ireland? Most of them won't know what Northern Ireland is. Just because you think something is true, doesn't make it real.

It’s interesting how you not only wish to be the authority on which Americans are of Irish descent and which aren’t, based on your "impressions" - and quite magically, without even having researched their individual genealogies - but also somehow appoint yourself as the authority on what Irish Americans (the ones that you grudgingly admit might actually be of Irish descent) care about and what they don’t.

Now, before you go off into the next distortion, I am by no means claiming that all Irish-Americans have a political opinion on The Troubles, or support the IRA, or even know much about it. But a lot of them do.

You should take a page from your own book on that "thinking something is true" tip.