Queen shakes hands with IRA terrorist

[rocks 494]

...and yet when the USA carves a piece of Mexico off and calls it Texas - that's ok ?

What is the difference between the two situations apart from the Texans don't dance with rag arms ?

It's OK because America did it.

[Captain Oates 911]

Can't ask who, and can't ask them what ?

I am against ethnic cleansing; I thought that was quite clear from my posts. But I don't have sympathy for cleansers who claim they are victims and try to justify preventing the cleansed from reclaiming their homes and property.

I think you greatly underestimate the number of Americans of Irish descent who sympathize with the occupied. There are some 36 million Americans of Irish descent, and another 3 million who call themselves Scotch-Irish. However, despite your sour little snipe, we are well aware of our identity as Americans while at the same time being proud of our heritage.

My snipes are never little.

The Americans seized and occupied native American lands

300 Million American occupiers versus 250k Brits in Northern Ireland

Who is the biggest aggressor ?

You seem to be ignoring the number of Americans who are of British Descent

Lets start with all the the founding fathers plus Obama's dad

Remember that the English founded America not the Irish. We speak English not Irish. Our law is English law not Irish law

My home county Yorkshire has a bigger population that Ireland or Scotland or Wales

Anyway, we won and they lost so that's that. Same with Palestinians - I cant stand a bad loser.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

It's OK because America did it.

Only "America" didn't. Read Post #56.

[rocks 494]

I think you greatly underestimate the number of Americans of Irish descent who sympathize with the occupied. There are some 36 million Americans of Irish descent, and another 3 million who call themselves Scotch-Irish.

I think you greatly underestimate how many British descent Americans there also are. Many Americans don't care about Europe, their idea of being Irish is participating in St Patrick's day.

A total of 36,278,332 Americans—estimated at 11.9% of the total population—reported Irish ancestry in the 2008 American Community Survey conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau.

According to American Community Survey in 2009 data, Americans reporting British ancestry made up an estimated (40,234,652) or 13.0% of the total U.S. population, and form the third largest European ancestry group after German Americans and Irish Americans.

...

However, demographers regard this as an undercount as the index of inconsistency is high, and many, if not most, people from English stock have a tendency to identify simply as Americans or, if of mixed European ancestry, nominate a more recent and differentiated ethnic group.[8] Consequently, many well-established white Americans have at least some British ancestry[citation needed], including many who identify primarily with other ethnic groups (such as Irish, German, Scandinavian, and so forth).

CIA World Factbook - United States

Religions: Protestant 51.3%, Roman Catholic 23.9%, Mormon 1.7%, other Christian 1.6%, Jewish 1.7%, Buddhist 0.7%, Muslim 0.6%, other or unspecified 2.5%, unaffiliated 12.1%, none 4% (2007 est.)

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

My snipes are never little.

The Americans seized and occupied native American lands

300 Million American occupiers versus 250k Brits in Northern Ireland

Who is the biggest aggressor ?

You seem to be ignoring the number of Americans who are of British Descent

Lets start with all the the founding fathers plus Obama's dad

Remember that the English founded America not the Irish. We speak English not Irish. Our law is English law not Irish law

My home county Yorkshire has a bigger population that Ireland or Scotland or Wales

Anyway, we won and they lost so that's that. Same with Palestinians - I cant stand a bad loser.

Little = petty.

I already told you that I have English ancestors - some of them intermarried with my Norman ancestors, and some came into the family tree from other directions (including Yorkshire - some came from Scalby.)

The English did not "found America." The English founded colonies on the North American continent and on some Caribbean Islands, most of which they were not able to hang onto. The name of the country that was founded is the United States of America. Only 2 of the founding fathers were born in England. 4 were born in Ireland , 2 in Scotland, and 1 in the West Indies; the rest were native-born.

About 15% of the U.S. population is of German ancestry. There are more people of African heritage, as well as more people of Irish heritage here than there are descendants of English. You guys just don't breed up enough. You need to get busy if you want to keep up.

Anyway, the U.S. is a very large place, and the history of Virginia is not the same as the history of Texas or the history of California. However, history would be very different if the Native American population had not been decimated in a devastating epidemic shortly before the "white man" arrived on the East Coast.

The U.S. (like England) used to allow slavery, deny women and other "lesser humans" their rights, etc. etc. etc. We're still working on transforming our society from the racist and colonialist mentality that England brought here.

Most Americans don't consider Native Americans as "losers" or even "bad losers" for daring to fight for their rights, but rather as fellow Americans.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I think you greatly underestimate how many British descent Americans there also are. Many Americans don't care about Europe, their idea of being Irish is participating in St Patrick's day.

Please include links for your quotes, so we can be on the same page.

It's interesting that you believe that "Irish Americans" must somehow be over-counted, yet "English Americans" must somehow be under-counted. I have news for you: many Americans of European descent can and have traced their family trees, and they know where they came from. The reason there *is* a St. Patrick's Day here (and not a Guy Fawkes Day) is because there are so many Irish - you know they breed like rabbits

[rocks 494]

About 15% of the U.S. population is of German ancestry. There are more people of African heritage, as well as more people of Irish heritage here than there are descendants of English.

See my previous post, you are incorrect about English British descendants. I never once said the word "English".

Apparently there are less black people than there are German too.

CIA World Factbook - United States

white 79.96%, black 12.85%

According to American Community Survey in 2010 data, Americans reporting German ancestry made up an estimated 17.1% of the total U.S. population, and form the largest ancestry group ahead of Irish Americans, African Americans and English Americans.

Please include links for your quotes, so we can be on the same page.

It's interesting that you believe that "Irish Americans" must somehow be over-counted, yet "English Americans" must somehow be under-counted. I have news for you: many Americans of European descent can and have traced their family trees, and they know where they came from. The reason there *is* a St. Patrick's Day here (and not a Guy Fawkes Day) is because there are so many Irish - you know they breed like rabbits

The quotes are from Wikipedia, the numbers come directly from the census.

You know as well as I do that all Americans want to claim to be Irish, even though it's only their great great great great great grandfather's butcher that was actually Irish. They don't actually know anything about Ireland.

Not sure why you brought up Guy Fawkes? What does that have to do with anything? He isn't a Saint, are you confusing him with St George?

I think you greatly underestimate the number of Americans of Irish descent who sympathize with the occupied. There are some 36 million Americans of Irish descent, and another 3 million who call themselves Scotch-Irish.

You seem to be insinuating that the 23.9% of catholics in USA somehow count more than the 51.3% of protestants. Not sure how you came to that conclusion.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

See my previous post, you are incorrect about English British descendants. I never once said the word "English".

We were talking about ethnic groups. The term "British" includes a lot of different ethnicities. Still trying to pad those figures ?

Apparently there are less black people than there are German too.

Fewer, not less. And yes, apparently, at least according to Wiki.

The quotes are from Wikipedia, the numbers come directly from the census.

I thought they might be, but there are many Wiki pages on the subject, and they don't always agree with each other. That's why I would like the links, please, so that we can be on the same page of reference.

You know as well as I do that all Americans want to claim to be Irish, even though it's only their great great great great great grandfather's butcher that was actually Irish. They don't actually know anything about Ireland.

I don't know such a thing at all - this is your theory, not mine.

Not sure why you brought up Guy Fawkes? What does that have to do with anything? He isn't a Saint, are you confusing him with St George?

Because it's an "English" holiday. But you seem to want to talk about religion now.

You seem to be insinuating that the 23.9% of catholics in USA somehow count more than the 51.3% of protestants. Not sure how you came to that conclusion.

Eh... what ? I never said anything about the Catholics or the Protestants in the U.S.

But since you brought it up, I must point out that being Catholic is not the same as being Irish (maybe it means that in England, but not here.) Most Catholics in the U.S. are not of Irish descent - only a small percentage are. By that same token, not all the Protestants in the U.S. are of English (or even "British") descent - many are German, or African-American, or Scandinavian, even French Huguenot, etc. etc.

[Captain Oates 911]

Little = petty.

I already told you that I have English ancestors - some of them intermarried with my Norman ancestors, and some came into the family tree from other directions (including Yorkshire - some came from Scalby.)

The English did not "found America." The English founded colonies on the North American continent and on some Caribbean Islands, most of which they were not able to hang onto. The name of the country that was founded is the United States of America. Only 2 of the founding fathers were born in England. 4 were born in Ireland , 2 in Scotland, and 1 in the West Indies; the rest were native-born.

About 15% of the U.S. population is of German ancestry. There are more people of African heritage, as well as more people of Irish heritage here than there are descendants of English. You guys just don't breed up enough. You need to get busy if you want to keep up.

Anyway, the U.S. is a very large place, and the history of Virginia is not the same as the history of Texas or the history of California. However, history would be very different if the Native American population had not been decimated in a devastating epidemic shortly before the "white man" arrived on the East Coast.

The U.S. (like England) used to allow slavery, deny women and other "lesser humans" their rights, etc. etc. etc. We're still working on transforming our society from the racist and colonialist mentality that England brought here.

Most Americans don't consider Native Americans as "losers" or even "bad losers" for daring to fight for their rights, but rather as fellow Americans.

Anyone born in the British Colones was British

The Americans didn't' revolt - it was the British colonials in America who revolted

They have been revolting ever since

What a Brit hater you are to suggest that England invented racism and brought it to America, The Arabs in Saudi Arabia still have slavery and they don't come any more racist. The whole history of East Africa is Arab slave trading. That's why Obama's middle name is Hussein.

When I referred to 'losers' I was talking about the Palestinians

England abolished slavery BEFORE the USA

England had votes for women BEFORE the USA

England has had universal health care since 1948 and the USA is still struggling to introduce it

The discussing was whether the Northern Irish, who have been there 400 years, should be selectively deported. My point was that The USA is a direct parallel in that a foreign population moved to another land hundreds of years ago and should be allowed to stay

Even you should be allowed to stay

Edited June 28, 2012 by Ashud Cocoa

[rocks 494]

We were talking about ethnic groups. The term "British" includes a lot of different ethnicities. Still trying to pad those figures ?

No, clearly you don't understand what being "British" is. I am British, not English.

Fewer, not less. And yes, apparently, at least according to Wiki.

According to the census. Your opinion is more educated than the census?

Less: A smaller amount of; not as much.

I thought they might be, but there are many Wiki pages on the subject, and they don't always agree with each other. That's why I would like the links, please, so that we can be on the same page of reference.

As I have told you three times now, the data is from the census. Go look it up.

I don't know such a thing at all - this is your theory, not mine.

I meet Americans all the time that claim to be "Irish" yet they don't have any link to Ireland at all. They don't know if they are Irish, they just like to think they are. This is common knowledge.

Because it's an "English" holiday. But you seem to want to talk about religion now.

So you thought you'd compare apples and oranges?

It's not a holiday, find it in this list.

Notice how the list says "England, Northern Ireland and Wales", not just England? Britian...

Eh... what ? I never said anything about the Catholics or the Protestants in the U.S.

But since you brought it up, I must point out that being Catholic is not the same as being Irish (maybe it means that in England, but not here.) Most Catholics in the U.S. are not of Irish descent - only a small percentage are. By that same token, not all the Protestants in the U.S. are of English (or even "British") descent - many are German, or African-American, or Scandinavian, even French Huguenot, etc. etc.

When did I say catholics were only of Irish descent? Please point that out. What you said was (Can't believe I have to show this to you again when I just quoted you)

I think you greatly underestimate the number of Americans of Irish descent who sympathize with the occupied. There are some 36 million Americans of Irish descent, and another 3 million who call themselves Scotch-Irish.

You think that the small amount of Irish catholics really care about Northern Ireland? Most of them won't know what Northern Ireland is. Just because you think something is true, doesn't make it real.

[Captain Oates 911]

No, clearly you don't understand what being "British" is. I am British, not English.

According to the census. Your opinion is more educated than the census?

As I have told you three times now, the data is from the census. Go look it up.

I meet Americans all the time that claim to be "Irish" yet they don't have any link to Ireland at all. They don't know if they are Irish, they just like to think they are. This is common knowledge.

So you thought you'd compare apples and oranges?

It's not a holiday, find it in this list.

Notice how the list says "England, Northern Ireland and Wales", not just England? Britian...

When did I say catholics were only of Irish descent? Please point that out. What you said was (Can't believe I have to show this to you again when I just quoted you)

You think that the small amount of Irish catholics really care about Northern Ireland? Most of them won't know what Northern Ireland is. Just because you think something is true, doesn't make it real.

The Arabs have a burning hatred for the Brits exceeded only by their hatred of the Jews. At the same time they insinuate themselves into US Society so they can run with fox and hunt with the hounds

The fact that the USA is allied with Israel and Britain must be something they would love to dissect, and falsifying facts is an essential step to doing that and was perfected by, but not invented by, a certain Joseph Goebbels

The idea that the BRITISH invented slavery and racism in the 1600's as proposed by wife-of, is an example of that hatred and that fact-inventing

[rocks 494]

The Arabs have a burning hatred for the Brits exceeded only by their hatred of the Jews. At the same time they insinuate themselves into US Society so they can run with fox and hunt with the hounds

The fact that the USA is allied with Israel and Britain must be something they would love to dissect, and falsifying facts is an essential step to doing that and was perfected by, but not invented by, a certain Joseph Goebbels

The idea that the BRITISH invented slavery and racism in the 1600's as proposed by wife-of, is an example of that hatred and that fact-inventing

Indeed. The Romans didn't have slaves, it was started by those mean "English" people.

Slavery

Edited June 28, 2012 by rocks

[Darnell 8,478]

What would they do, deport a quarter million people based on their religion ?

Britain has done that before. It's been a while, and yes, I do mean Britain.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Britain has done that before. It's been a while, and yes, I do mean Britain.

:thumbs:

Whither, pray, were they sent?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18607911

It is understood Mr McGuinness welcomed both the Queen and the Irish president in Irish.

The deputy first minister is said to have commented on the Queen's visit to Dublin last year, and in particular her comments regarding all the victims of the Troubles.

Not only did the Queen and Martin McGuinness shake hands, they wore a matching colour. Needless to say it was green. It may be a trivial point, but it spoke volumes.

The image will help Sinn Fein reach out to voters, previously reluctant to support a party linked to the IRA.

But the picture could lose them a small number of party members for whom a meeting with the British head of state is a republican step too far.

As for the Queen, it will not be the favourite moment of her 60-year reign, but it is certainly one of the most significant.

A Sinn Fein spokesman said: "He emphasised the need to acknowledge the pain of all victims of the conflict and their families."

Sinn Fein said Mr McGuinness told the Queen that their meeting was a "powerful signal that peace-building requires leadership".

Later, as the Queen left to continue her Diamond Jubilee tour of Northern Ireland, the pair shook hands again, this time in public.

Reconciliation As they shook hands for a second time, Mr McGuinness wished the Queen well in Irish, which translates as: "Goodbye and God bless."

When asked how it was to meet the Queen, Martin McGuinness replied "very nice."

In 1972, it would have seemed like the most absurd fantasy that the Queen would ever shake hands with a leading figure from the Provisional IRA”

John Simpson BBC World Affairs Editor The main event had been billed as one to celebrate the role of the arts in contributing to reconciliation and peace-building and not as part of the Jubilee celebrations.

During the event, the Queen was presented with a gift of Belleek pottery to mark her Diamond Jubilee.

President Higgins said he and his wife, Sabina, had been delighted "to have the opportunity for a brief but very warm meeting" with the Queen.

He said it marked "another important step on the journey to reconciliation on this island".

The prime minister's official spokesman said the Queen's visit to the Republic of Ireland last year had "taken relations between the two countries to a new level".

Edited June 28, 2012 by Gegel

[Captain Oates 911]

Britain has done that before. It's been a while, and yes, I do mean Britain.

Usual lack of facts - but those would invite an informed response - so I can see why you wouldn't want to put those forward