Netherlands is abandoning MULTICULTURALISM

[Danno 1,228]

The Netherlands to Abandon Multiculturalism

The Dutch government says it will abandon the long-standing model of multiculturalism that has encouraged Muslim immigrants to create a parallel society within the Netherlands.

A new integration bill (covering letter and 15-page action plan), which Dutch Interior Minister Piet Hein Donner presented to parliament on June 16, reads: "The government shares the social dissatisfaction over the multicultural society model and plans to shift priority to the values of the Dutch people. In the new integration system, the values of the Dutch society play a central role. With this change, the government steps away from the model of a multicultural society."

The letter continues: "A more obligatory integration is justified because the government also demands that from its own citizens. It is necessary because otherwise the society gradually grows apart and eventually no one feels at home anymore in the Netherlands. The integration will not be tailored to different groups."

The new integration policy will place more demands on immigrants. For example, immigrants will be required to learn the Dutch language, and the government will take a tougher approach to immigrants to ignore Dutch values or disobey Dutch law.

The government will also stop offering special subsidies for Muslim immigrants because, according to Donner, "it is not the government's job to integrate immigrants." The government will introduce new legislation that outlaws forced marriages and will also impose tougher measures against Muslim immigrants who lower their chances of employment by the way they dress. More specifically, the government will impose a ban on face-covering Islamic burqas as of January 1, 2013.

If necessary, the government will introduce extra measures to allow the removal of residence permits from immigrants who fail their integration course.

The measures are being imposed by the new center-right government of Conservatives (VVD) and Christian Democrats (CDA), with parliamentary support from the anti-Islam Freedom Party (PVV), whose leader, Geert Wilders, is currently on trial in Amsterdam for "inciting hatred" against Muslims.

As expected, Muslim organizations in Holland have been quick to criticize the proposals. The Moroccan-Dutch organization Samenwerkingsverband van Marokkaanse Nederlanders, which advises the government on integration matters, argues that Muslim immigrants need extra support to find a job. The umbrella Muslim group Contactorgaan Moslims en Overheid says that although it agrees that immigrants should be better integrated into Dutch society, it is opposed to a ban on burqas.

But polls show that a majority of Dutch voters support the government's skepticism about multiculturalism. According to a Maurice de Hond poll published by the center-right newspaper Trouw on June 19, 74 percent of Dutch voters say immigrants should conform to Dutch values. Moreover, 83 percent of those polled support a ban on burqas in public spaces.

The proper integration of the more than one million Muslims now living in Holland has been a major political issue ever since 2002, when Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn was assassinated for his views on Muslim immigration, and since 2004, when Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh was stabbed to death for producing a movie that criticized Islam.

Muslim immigration to the Netherlands can be traced back to the 1960s and 1970s, when a blue collar labor shortage prompted the Dutch government to conclude recruitment agreements with countries like Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia and Turkey. In the 1980s and 1990s, Muslims also arrived in the Netherlands as asylum seekers and refugees, mainly from Afghanistan, Bosnia, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan and Somalia.

There are now an estimated 1.2 million Muslims in the Netherlands, which is equivalent to about 6 percent of the country's overall population. Moroccans and Turks comprise nearly two-thirds of all Muslims in the Netherlands. Most Muslims live in the four major cities of the country: Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht.

As their numbers grow, Muslim immigrants have become increasingly more assertive in carving out a role for Islam within Dutch society. For example, a documentary aired by the television program Netwerk in June 2009 reported that Dutch law was being systematically undermined by the growth of Sharia justice in the Netherlands.

In December 2004, the Dutch Ministry of the Interior published a 60-page report titled From Dawa to Jihad. Prepared by the Dutch intelligence agency AIVD, the report says that the Netherlands is home to up to 50,000 radical Muslims whose key ideological aim is to target the Western way of life and to confront Western political, economic, and cultural domination.

The report concludes that Dutch society is poorly equipped to resist the threat of radical Islam because of "a culture of permissiveness" that has become synonymous with "closing one's eyes" to multiple transgressions of the law.

As for Interior Minister Donner, he has undergone a late-in-life conversion on the issue of Muslim immigration. In September 2006, while serving as justice minister, Donner provoked an outcry after saying that he welcomed the introduction of Islamic Sharia law in the Netherlands if the majority wants it. He also said Holland should give Muslims more freedoms to behave according to their traditions.

After applauding Queen Beatrix for respecting Islam by not insisting that a Muslim leader shake hands with her during a visit to the Mobarak Mosque in The Hague, Donner said: "A tone that I do not like has crept into the political debate on integration. A tone of: 'Thou shalt assimilate. Thou shalt adopt our values in public. Be reasonable, do it our way.' That is not my approach."

Fast forward to 2011 and Donner now says his government "will distance itself from the relativism contained in the model of a multicultural society." Although society changes, he says, it must not be "interchangeable with any other form of society."

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2219/netherlands-abandons-multiculturalism

[slim 1,525]

Subsidies are no good anywhere.

[Captain Oates 911]

Strangely enough, I think the USA has parallel cultures and they seem to work compared to the alternative.

The Black Community has it's own accents and dialects (let me axe you a question )and indeed their own names eg "Shaneaquah". Anyone who doesn't recognize that should tune to MSNBC and try to listen to Al Sharpton.

Similarly the "Greeks" eat Greek food even though their parents were born in America

A woman told me she was English - I asked her when she had emigrated from England and she said her ancestors had arrived 100 years ago !

Everywhere there are China towns and little Saigons, little Italys etc etc

So although Americans all make the pledge of allegiance to the flag every morning in school (something that would be seen as totalitarian nazism in Britain), the fact is that the USA is a collection of parallel cultures who have agreed to live side by side and call themselves Americans and that is why the flag and the constitution are raised to be holy icons - its the only thing that keeps them from fragmenting into dozens of different countries.

It doesn't matter what the Dutch government decides - a 6 foot 6 inch tall blond Protestant Dutch woman on a bicycle has nothing in common with an immigrant from the former Dutch colonies in the far East

The Scots pooled sovereignty with England in 1707 and still regard their fellow Britons with suspicion and antagonism, despite almost sharing the same language

Same in Wales / Cornwall

The Dutch are not making a decision to live separately, they are simply acknowledging a situation which exists and which will continue whatever the politicians say

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Good for the Dutch. Iv'e been an admirer of Geert Wilders for many a year now.

[Peter_Pan 661]

Wonderful! Hope they apply it swiftly, inshallah!

[Danno 1,228]

Unfortunately for EUROPE they are shutting the barn door.... after the horse is already out.

The math of demography in time will prevail, on the bright side there are a few European countries which had the foresight to stay off this path of ethnic suicide.

For me it's not about anyone being "bad" it's just a simple, inevitable clash of cultures.

This old song came to mind.

So lets leave it alone, cuzz we can't see eye to eye

There ain't no good-guy, there ain't no bad-guy,

theres only you and me and we just disagree.

[Peter_Pan 661]

I have faith in Europe.

[slim 1,525]

I have faith in Europe.

Yes, because they have a stellar historical record.

[Captain Oates 911]

It's an interesting subject..

Rivers of Blood

[JohnR! 5,495]

The Netherlands to Abandon Multiculturalism

The Dutch government says it will abandon the long-standing model of multiculturalism that has encouraged Muslim immigrants to create a parallel society within the Netherlands.

It seems they are adapting the American model, which encourages everyone to be a part of the melting pot without relinquishing personal beliefs and cultural traits.

e pluribus unum

Edited June 26, 2012 by Gegel

[Captain Oates 911]

It seems they are adapting the American model, which encourages everyone to be a part of the melting pot without relinquishing personal beliefs and cultural traits.

e pluribus unum

and we know what a success that isn't...

Americans generally worship the flag and the military and god and 'love' a mystical image of the US which has never existed -- but whole communities distrust/dislike each other and live in separation while paying lip service to 'The American People' who are most united when they are in uniform and killing foreigners

But that is actually 'normal' for humans and chimpanzees who are tribal in nature.

My Jewish boss totally cut off his daughter because she married a non-Jew

Where is the 'melting pot' there ?

The reality is that not thinking tribally is only available to a minority of the population who are sufficiently intelligent/educated/evolved to suppress and overcome some of their raw animal nature. It will never be the general condition of all the population and I am not sure it should.

The problem is that separate groups don't stay separate - they either expand or contract and the expanders swamp their neighbors with their culture.

In the 900's Danish illegal immigrants were swamping Yorkshire with their language and foreign ways and the same conversation would have been heard then in the "Weapon-take of Skyrac" which still exists (Leeds)

A half a million Brits live in Southern Spain and I sympathize with the Spanish who see their culture diluted and sent into history

The situation in the USA and Europe will not hot up until the former minority become the majority and want to impose their will.

Then we will see a problem similar to South Africa or Israel. It wont be in my lifetime but it is inevitable.

I am learning Spanish this winter

[JohnR! 5,495]

and we know what a success that isn't...

Americans generally worship the flag and the military and god and 'love' a mystical image of the US which has never existed -- but whole communities distrust/dislike each other and live in separation while paying lip service to 'The American People' who are most united when they are in uniform and killing foreigners

But that is actually 'normal' for humans and chimpanzees who are tribal in nature.

My Jewish boss totally cut off his daughter because she married a non-Jew

Where is the 'melting pot' there ?

The reality is that not thinking tribally is only available to a minority of the population who are sufficiently intelligent/educated/evolved to suppress and overcome some of their raw animal nature. It will never be the general condition of all the population and I am not sure it should.

The problem is that separate groups don't stay separate - they either expand or contract and the expanders swamp their neighbors with their culture.

In the 900's Danish illegal immigrants were swamping Yorkshire with their language and foreign ways and the same conversation would have been heard then in the "Weapon-take of Skyrac" which still exists (Leeds)

A half a million Brits live in Southern Spain and I sympathize with the Spanish who see their culture diluted and sent into history

The situation in the USA and Europe will not hot up until the former minority become the majority and want to impose their will.

Then we will see a problem similar to South Africa or Israel. It wont be in my lifetime but it is inevitable.

I am learning Spanish this winter

What you describe is what I meant by the ability to keep cultural traits and yet be part of one single country and nation.

The worship of the flag, exists because it means something to all of us. It is an icon, so much so that our national anthem is anything but. It is an ode to the flag.

'America' is oftentimes intangible, because it exists as much inside each one of us as it does on the outside. The notion that 'e pluribus unum' is paradoxical ceases to be when you look around you.

To be sure, you can look at the exceptions, but then again, they only prove the rule.

[Captain Oates 911]

What you describe is what I meant by the ability to keep cultural traits and yet be part of one single country and nation.

The worship of the flag, exists because it means something to all of us. It is an icon, so much so that our national anthem is anything but. It is an ode to the flag.

'America' is oftentimes intangible, because it exists as much inside each one of us as it does on the outside. The notion that 'e pluribus unum' is paradoxical ceases to be when you look around you.

To be sure, you can look at the exceptions, but then again, they only prove the rule.

I am onboard with the concept of what America was meant to be, but the reality is that people looked up at the flag with tears of pride in their eyes and then went out and lynched black farmers

It is that disconnect which makes outsiders see the US as hypocrisy central. Like christians killing abortion doctors as a christian act

The only answer to that, is to make the original concept of the US closer to the reality.

So people who says that illegals have no rights and they should be allowed to bleed to death at the hospital gates, or anyone who robs or kills illegals is in the clear because the illegals have no rights, is acting in the most Un-American way possible

The irony is that those people see themselves as the MOST patriotic when in fact it is they themselves who don't belong in the US

That is not the same as saying that a passive separating of sub cultures is not the best way to proceed, but that leads to what there is in England where Sharia courts deal with the religious aspect of divorce - and the Jews have had their own religious divorce courts for centuries.

Both these arrangements are supposedly voluntary, but in fact the amount of leverage means they are not

Should non-jews and non moslems say that these courts must stop ? Separate development (as was in South Africa) depends on whether the majority think they should tolerate voodoo and sharia and jewish courts and eating sharks fins and powdered rhino horn and elephant's tusks and tigers's willy's, ----or whether they have the right to interfere in the separate development of sub-cultures

It's a big subject - the biggest - and we are not 5% down the road with it. When minorities become majorities, the subject will not be ours to discuss

Edited June 26, 2012 by Ashud Cocoa

[JohnR! 5,495]

I am onboard with the concept of what America was meant to be, but the reality is that people looked up at the flag with tears of pride in their eyes and then went out and lynched black farmers

It is that disconnect which makes outsiders see the US as hypocrisy central. Like christians killing abortion doctors as a christian act

The only answer to that, is to make the original concept of the US closer to the reality.

So people who says that illegals have no rights and they should be allowed to bleed to death at the hospital gates, or anyone who robs or kills illegals is in the clear because the illegals have no rights, is acting in the most Un-American way possible

The irony is that those people see themselves as the MOST patriotic when in fact it is they themselves who don't belong in the US

That is not the same as saying that a passive separating of sub cultures is not the best way to proceed, but that leads to what there is in England where Sharia courts deal with the religious aspect of divorce - and the Jews have had their own religious divorce courts for centuries.

Both these arrangements are supposedly voluntary, but in fact the amount of leverage means they are not

Should non-jews and non moslems say that these courts must stop ? Separate development (as was in South Africa) depends on whether the majority think they should tolerate voodoo and sharia and jewish courts and eating sharks fins and powdered rhino horn and elephant's tusks and tigers's willy's, ----or whether they have the right to interfere in the separate development of sub-cultures

It's a big subject - the biggest - and we are not 5% down the road with it. When minorities become majorities, the subject will not be ours to discuss

I agree with most of what you say and perhaps it is a matter of personal outlook and/or POV on the same subject. I guess that what Americans have come to understand about our country is that we are indeed a nation of contradictions - or hypocrisy oftentimes, if you will - but we do not hide them nor do we try to justify them. Individuals may blow up abortion clinics in the name of some god, but they will be subjected to the same secular laws any other murder will.

The one thing that still creates waves in our culture is the lack of understanding of many, if nor most, that America is a secular country. It is not, nor was it ever meant to be a (enter religion name) country, regardless of any religious majority. Regardless of the founding fathers' personal view on religion they ensured that the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution remained free from any religious connotation. If they had meant it otherwise, they have the chance to include an entire pantheon in these documents. Wise beyond human comprehension, they did not. In that sense, any court of law, other than the secular legal system of the United States, cant, mustnt and wont trump the legal system. Having said that, we need to remind ourselves that our own legal system makes room and accommodations so that certain matters can be resolved outside a court of law.. In that sense Sharia or a Jewish court do have their place in society because they deal with issues and make decisions that do not preclude the authority of the US legal system.

These courts normally take charge of arbitration of disputes that are more a matter of interpretation or common sense than anything else. They are in essence no different than any other church.

In the end, we are a nation of laws, not deities.

In addition, anyone who claims to be a 'true' American and a 'true' patriot, is neither. True patriotic Americans would never use those qualifiers on themselves.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Gegel

[Danno 1,228]

The one thing that still creates waves in our culture is the lack of understanding of many, if nor most, that America is a secular country. It is not, nor was it ever meant to be a (enter religion name) country, regardless of any religious majority. Regardless of the founding fathers' personal view on religion they ensured that the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution remained free from any religious connotation. If they had meant it otherwise, they have the chance to include an entire pantheon in these documents. Wise beyond human comprehension, they did not. In that sense, any court of law, other than the secular legal system of the United States, cant, mustnt and wont trump the legal system. Having said that, we need to remind ourselves that our own legal system makes room and accommodations so that certain matters can be resolved outside a court of law.. In that sense Sharia or a Jewish court do have their place in society because they deal with issues and make decisions that do not preclude the authority of the US legal system.

In the end, we are a nation of laws, not deities.

I think your stumbling block is your lack of knowledge (if you don't mind me saying).

-IN the first place America is a nation of people.... not of Government, it's government is Of the people, so when you say this is a "secular country".... one must ask -Where do you live that you have found this to be true?

As far as this *long held disconnect* between Gov't and religion, I would ask you to answer two questions.

-Where do our Founding documents that you source claim out rights come from?

-Quote for me the preamble of your state Constitution.

This is not a theocracy for certain, but there is a long standing connection between a general Faith in God and not only this Nation of people but the Government its self.